Dutch vs Rambo

Frostbyte... READ BEFORE RESPONDING... I quoted Silent master just above.. when HE MADE THE CLAIM. I didn't make ANY claim on the matter. He made the clai mthat Rambo is trained oerall better than Dutch... It's on him to prove that claim. Showing rambo doing something.. and not dutch doing something Isn't proof... Do you even understand this basic part of critical thinking and what a fallacy is?? I'm honestly asking. He made the claim thus he has to prove the claim. Using absence of proof as proof is a fallacy and not proof. . Understand now?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Taking a piss is something everyone can do, flying a chopper is not something everyone can do.

If I were to use your logic, then I can simply say "I can fly" and you'd have to believe me because you can't prove that I can't.

That's silly logic. You claim a person can do something that's above the norm for the average person, you'd better have some way to prove it.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm sure he could, but the question is how good is he? Because we've seen what Rambo can do, we don't know what Dutch can do. Their other stats and abilities are too equal so it all comes down to this.

Outsmart and kill an Intergalactic Alien hunter is a feat that I would think tops anything that, Rambo did. Now, i'm not saying Rambo isn't capable of doing the same but he we haven't seen him do so. Do you see where i'm going with this? There's no reason to assume that, Dutch has any less knowledge in H2H combat than, Rambo. Rambo was never shown to have been anymore specially trained in hand to hand combat than Dutch. Unless i'm missing something here, They are both military trained. I didn't know, Rambo was known as some bad ass MMA fighter, I just always thought he was a bad ass trained killer, like, Dutch.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Outsmart and kill an Intergalactic Alien hunter is a feat that I would think tops anything that, Rambo did. Now, i'm not saying Rambo isn't capable of doing the same but he we haven't seen him do so. Do you see where i'm going with this? There's no reason to assume that, Dutch has any less knowledge in H2H combat than, Rambo. Rambo was never shown to have been anymore specially trained in hand to hand combat than Dutch. Unless i'm missing something here, They are both military trained. I didn't know, Rambo was known as some bad ass MMA fighter, I just always thought he was a bad ass trained killer, like, Dutch.

Yeah but the problem here is, this match isn't about who can outsmart and kill an alien. If that was the match then Dutch would have the advantage. Rambo outsmarted and took out a mini army by himself.

At the end of the day, Dutch still has no h2h feats that we can discuss. All we have is assumptions, whereas Rambo does have evidence.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah but the problem here is, this match isn't about who can outsmart and kill an alien. If that was the match then Dutch would have the advantage. Rambo outsmarted and took out a mini army by himself.

At the end of the day, Dutch still has no h2h feats that we can discuss. All we have is assumptions, whereas Rambo does have evidence.

Well, that's kind of the point I was trying to make. We only have on screen feats. Rambo took out a mini army but Dutch took out An intergalactic Alien Hunter that is capable of taking out armies. I still attest, that we must assume that both of these combatants have the same fighting prowess because they're both products of the same system. In that case we have to look at the fighters, specifically...,physically. Rambo may have been electrocuted but Dutch took a PLasma bolt to the chest and kept on truckin like a champ 😂

Dutch took out the Pred using basic survival traps, how exactly is that going to help against Rambo, especially since this is a hth fight that takes place in a cage.

IIRC, the plasma bolt grazed Dutch's shoulder.

So Frost... care to back up the claim Silent made.. or do you concede that he or anybody doesn't know that Rambo was overall trained better?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So Frost... care to back up the claim Silent made.. or do you concede that he or anybody doesn't know that Rambo was overall trained better?

Better trained? Better skilled is a better term methinks.

The funny thing here is, every time someone mentions that Rambo is better trained or better skilled in h2h, you say "but you have no proof to show this simply because Dutch didn't have similar feats".

But then you have no problem saying "Dutch is stronger than Rambo" despite that there is also no proof to this. You say "but he lifted that truck" and I can use the same arguments you do and simply say "well we never saw Rambo attempt to lift a truck, so we don't know whether Dutch is really stronger or not".

Care to prove he's better skilled then... I'm curiously what your proof of this is. Also... The reason why we say stronger is because we KNOW in real life Arnold was stronger than Stallone... This is an undisputable fact.. Thus their real life strength would carry over to the characters they are playing... Even if exclude real life for second and just go by feats.. Dutch's feat of lifting the truck is better than anything feat of strength for Rambo. Rambo DID stuff that involved strength... Breaking free of his restraints in Rambo 2..Hanging on the cliff in Rambo 1... just to name a couple.. He actually HAS feats showing his strength... they just aren't as good as Dutch's.. NOW

This is in STARK contrasts to claiming Rambo is better trained and showcasing him driving a chopper and tank and dutch not doing so. So the difference there. Dutch never had a chance to or showed he couldn't.. That isn't proof. Strength was shown by both characters.. unlike the better trained premise and conclusion.. thus we can judge who had better strength based on feats. That is the difference.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Care to prove he's better skilled then... I'm curiously what your proof of this is. Also... The reason why we say stronger is because we KNOW in real life Arnold was stronger than Stallone... This is an undisputable fact.. Thus their real life strength would carry over to the characters they are playing... Even if exclude real life for second and just go by feats.. Dutch's feat of lifting the truck is better than anything feat of strength for Rambo. Rambo DID stuff that involved strength... Breaking free of his restraints in Rambo 2..Hanging on the cliff in Rambo 1... just to name a couple.. He actually HAS feats showing his strength... they just aren't as good as Dutch's.. NOW

This is in STARK contrasts to claiming Rambo is better trained and showcasing him driving a chopper and tank and dutch not doing so. So the difference there. Dutch never had a chance to or showed he couldn't.. That isn't proof. Strength was shown by both characters.. unlike the better trained premise and conclusion.. thus we can judge who had better strength based on feats. That is the difference.

No, real world strength shouldn't be confused with a character's strength. You mean to tell me that you believe Dutch is stronger than Captain America because Arnold is stronger than Evans? That's stupid. You judge a character's strength depending on what he has shown on screen.

And there's really no proof that Arnold is stronger than Sly. Lifting strength? Bench press? Sure. What about punching strength and kicking power? How about core strength and explosive power? If you want to bring in real world strength then we should also bring in real world h2h skills... in which Sly at least trained in boxing whereas Arnold has next to none.

Plus, you believe Arnold is stronger due to (what in your eyes) believe to be a better showing of strength in his truck lifting feat than what Rambo has shown, yet somehow refuse to acknowledge that Rambo showed more skills in his fight sequences than Dutch has shown while fighting the Predator?

Your bias is starting to show. Either we accept on screen feats as proof of their skills and assets or we do not. You can't keep cherry picking only those feats where Dutch is shown in better light.

Not doing any such thing... They BOTH had strength feats in the movies.. So we can compare them... Saying Rambo is more skilled because he was shown flying a chopper and driving a tank.. while dutch never had a chance to nor did he say he wasn't able to... You do understand the difference there? I'm still waiting for the concession on this point. Absence of proof isn't proof. They both have strength feats.. so we can compare.. the same isn't true of Silent and your premise. Correct?

Lastly, when did I say Rambo didn't show more h2h fighting sequences and feats... Show me where I said this. I've already confirmed that Rambo has more h2h feats and have never said he wasn't skilled or had skill feats. So I'm not understanding your point there. What I am saying is this... Nobody can say Rambo is better trained.. That is undeniable. What I'm also saying is Dutch has the best skill feat one v one in defeating the predator with no weapons really to speak of.. compared to anybody Rambo beat. Shit, I'll take Dutch beating the predator over rambo killing a whole bunch of no name bad guys in the inverse ninja law going on there. Being the predator is better for more. I'll also say, being that Dutch is bigger.. stronger.. longer reach which comparable training... Dutch to me holds the advantage. Rambo could still win but IMO it's dutch's fight to lose. It's that simple. Nobody is saying Rambo doesn't have feats.. never once have I said this.

Lastly, kicking power? WTF.. You believe sly has more kicking power? I honestly don't even know what that means... Suffice to say though... Arnold was stronger and you agree with this. Core strength.. that would be arnold again.. Why would Arnold be stronger in strong man feats but not have as much core strength? That makes little to no sense really and you have no proof to back up your claim. Yet I have proof to back up the claim that Arnold can lift more and press more than Stallone. Further, you used Captain America.. somebody that is above peak human and given special serum to make him so. I'm talking about real life guys playign real life Special Forces guys.. Yeah.. the guy who is real life stronger would thus make their character movie stronger. UNLESS.. UNLESS Rambo showed strength beyond Dutch.. Then i would say.. well Arnold is stronger in real life.. but clearly rambo was portrayed as being stronger in the films. That isn't the case. Arnold proved stronger in both.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not doing any such thing... They BOTH had strength feats in the movies.. So we can compare them... Saying Rambo is more skilled because he was shown flying a chopper and driving a tank.. while dutch never had a chance to nor did he say he wasn't able to... You do understand the difference there? I'm still waiting for the concession on this point. Absence of proof isn't proof. They both have strength feats.. so we can compare.. the same isn't true of Silent and your premise. Correct?

Lastly, when did I say Rambo didn't show more h2h fighting sequences and feats... Show me where I said this. I've already confirmed that Rambo has more h2h feats and have never said he wasn't skilled or had skill feats. So I'm not understanding your point there. What I am saying is this... Nobody can say Rambo is better trained.. That is undeniable. What I'm also saying is Dutch has the best skill feat one v one in defeating the predator with no weapons really to speak of.. compared to anybody Rambo beat. Shit, I'll take Dutch beating the predator over rambo killing a whole bunch of no name bad guys in the inverse ninja law going on there. Being the predator is better for more. I'll also say, being that Dutch is bigger.. stronger.. longer reach which comparable training... Dutch to me holds the advantage. Rambo could still win but IMO it's dutch's fight to lose. It's that simple. Nobody is saying Rambo doesn't have feats.. never once have I said this.

Lastly, kicking power? WTF.. You believe sly has more kicking power? I honestly don't even know what that means... Suffice to say though... Arnold was stronger and you agree with this. Core strength.. that would be arnold again.. Why would Arnold be stronger in strong man feats but not have as much core strength? That makes little to no sense really and you have no proof to back up your claim. Yet I have proof to back up the claim that Arnold can lift more and press more than Stallone. Further, you used Captain America.. somebody that is above peak human and given special serum to make him so. I'm talking about real life guys playign real life Special Forces guys.. Yeah.. the guy who is real life stronger would thus make their character movie stronger. UNLESS.. UNLESS Rambo showed strength beyond Dutch.. Then i would say.. well Arnold is stronger in real life.. but clearly rambo was portrayed as being stronger in the films. That isn't the case. Arnold proved stronger in both.

1. Arnold has no strongman feats that I know of.
2. Arnold dead lifted a truck. Rambo never did. Therefore by your own logic, you can't compare their strength feats because they're not the same. Rambo was never given the chance to deadlift that truck (just like Dutch was never given the chance to fly a chopper) we don't know if Rambo could do that feat or not.
3. Kicking power is something that's used in a fight. If you don't know what it is, well, then you don't know much about the type of strength used in a fight.
4. Why do you keep arguing about choppers? I'm not Silent, talk that out with him.
5. I never said that Arnold was stronger. I admit he can probably lift heavier, but strength is debateable.
6. If you insist on saying that Dutch is stronger than Rambo because in real life Arnold is stronger than Sly, then I can also say Rambo is more skilled than Dutch because in real life Sly is more skilled than Arnold.

Again nice try...

Rambo HAS feats of strength... Armold has feats of strength.. Thus we can compare.. This isn't hard to figure out and understand. Now, we can't compare Arnold's driving a chopper or tank to rambo becaues he never did. How is this point going over your head is beyond me. We can compare their strength.. we can't compare their driving ability.

Please.. don't talk to me about kicking power or what it brings to a fight.. I was watching MMA when you probably were still having your mom wipe your snot from your nose. I know very well what kicking power brings to a fight.. Rambo did nothing impressive in this area. So I'm not sure why you brought it up.

So he can lift more.. i.e. bench press.. dead lift.. squat etc etc.. but being stronger is debatable.. LOL.. Umm no it's not debatable.. Arnold is stronger.. and decisively stronger at that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again nice try...

Rambo HAS feats of strength... Armold has feats of strength.. Thus we can compare.. This isn't hard to figure out and understand. Now, we can't compare Arnold's driving a chopper or tank to rambo becaues he never did. How is this point going over your head is beyond me. We can compare their strength.. we can't compare their driving ability.

Please.. don't talk to me about kicking power or what it brings to a fight.. I was watching MMA when you probably were still having your mom wipe your snot from your nose. I know very well what kicking power brings to a fight.. Rambo did nothing impressive in this area. So I'm not sure why you brought it up.

So he can lift more.. i.e. bench press.. dead lift.. squat etc etc.. but being stronger is debatable.. LOL.. Umm no it's not debatable.. Arnold is stronger.. and decisively stronger at that.

Sigh. I'm going to try to be patient with you despite your pathetic insults.

First, stop bringing Arnold into this, we're discussing Rambo and Dutch. If you insist on bringing Arnold's strength accomplishments into this then I insist we also include Sly's boxing training. Now which will it be? Include real life skillsets or not?

Next, just because you bench or deadlift heavier weights than someone else doesn't automatically make you stronger than that person in a fight. If you have any idea of fight mechanics, you'll know this to be true. And no, watching MMA while sitting on your ass is not going to make you an expert on this.

Then: Rambo has strength feats, Dutch has strength feats. What makes you automatically assume that Dutch is stronger? Rambo hasn't tried deadlifting the rear of a truck and Dutch hasn't tried having to break out of bondage. Can you compute the amount of strength each feat requires? Their feats require different kinds of strength. You can't simply say one feat makes the other stronger. Majority of strongmen competitors won't be able to hold on to a cliff face with only their fingers and majority of mountain climbers won't be able to deadlift the rear of a truck.

Or are you simply going with what you think is the more impressive strength feat.

Because if that's the case, then Rambo has h2h feats and Dutch does to (where he fights the Pred) and then we can also say that Rambo displayed more impressive h2h skills than Dutch did.

And for the last time, I'm not debating flying skills here. Stop bringing in choppers into the mix.

Ummm the bottom line is this.. Dutch IS stronger than Rambo and has comparable trainng to rambo going by how long they served and the type of training they would've received. Dutch is also bigger with a longer reach. He defeated THE best person either has in a one v one situation. All these things lead me to believe Dutch would probably win.

BTW.. please stop talking about just because he can dead lift more.. press more.. squat mroe.. doesn't make him stronger.. WTF... That literally is retarded to even say.. that is EXACTLY what it makes you. What are the odds that somebody can do all these things less.. yet be stronger? That would be some random exception to the rule.. If you chose to try and side with some small percentage thing.. that is on you.. I'll go with what is the more logical sound conclusion.. Dutch is stronger. By the way.. how the hell woud they test for strength other than lifting tests.. Please enlighten me on how somebody would be inferior and the basic lifts designed to test strength..yet exceed AT WHAT that would circumvent all those lists of lifts they lost at? Do tell.

How is this thread still going? No one knows what Dutch is capable of in H2H. Everything Dutch supporters are saying is just guesswork.

Ummm nope...

We know...

1. Dutch is stronger
2. We know dutch is bigger
3. We know dutch has longer reach
4. We know they are called the best of the best special forces
5. We actually see Dutch is the captain and leader of other special forces guys who are the best fo the best. Rambo was never shown leading other special force soldiers
6. Lastly we know dutch has the best one v one victory of the two.. and this is by a landslide... this is a one on one fight.. The best kinda proof

The above aren't guesswork at all.. these are facts.

That is some serious next level bullshit right there.

Really next level Bullshit? Are you blind?

You don't see that Dutch is bigger.. has a longer reach.. and stronger? You also didn't see the films did you.. You don't agree that Dutch has the best one v one victory of the two? Ohhh yeah.. some serious next level bs.. most call it basic eye sight and logic.. but hey you can call it what you want.