Dutch vs Rambo

Originally posted by Lestov16
Based on this logic, AK Waters from Tears of the Sun, Hoot from Black Hawk Down, and the SEALs from Act Of Valor all are complete jokes in H2H, simply because they didn't display it onscreen. 😆

Jokes? Probably not. But until they show their skill, you also can't call them skilled.

By your logic then the cops in the police precint that Rambo beat up should also be decent h2h fighters because they're cops and they're trained for it.

By your logic even Hawkins from Dutch's own troops should be some kind of crack expert at h2h combat.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Do you not realize the Predator was toying with him?

People refuse to see the truth.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Are you telling me that someone who is a great tactician is automatically a great h2h fighter? That if someone was a great sniper, or archer, or strategist then that automatically makes them a good h2h fighter? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Do you know how soldiers rise up through the ranks? Do you think that generals are automatically some of the best h2h fighters around simply because if they're so high up on the chain of command then they must automatically be great h2h fighters because they're apparently great strategists?

As for beating the pred, he beat the Pred using tactics and prep time, not through h2h. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this fight a h2h match without prep time?

Plus, yeah the Pred is tougher than any single opponent Rambo has faced, but then you have to remember that Rambo took on an entire police force, an entire army - singlehandedly. Sometimes with maybe 1 or 2 allies but mostly doing it solo. Sometimes he'd take on an entire platoon of men with nothing but his rambo knife and jungle tactics.

Plus as tough as the preds are, it has been proven that they can be taken out singlehandedly by other humans. City cop took on a pred in Predator 2. And a hasbeen Yakuza took on another pred.

You didn't answer the question though... You keep acting like I said being tactical means you are great at h2h.. never said such a thing. Just like being a bus driver doesn't make you good at using weapons and having military training. That is the case here... He's no communications specialist turned general... HE'S A G.B. which are some of the best of the best in multiple facets of armed or unarmed combat. Would you agree with that? So why then, would somebody get accepted to be in the G.B. make it in the G.B.'s.. show yourself superior to others in your company and rise to be the leader of them. Not some paper pusher leader.. Dutch was LEADING the special forces sent in. Dillon even remarks in the very beginning.. we wanted the best of the best.. and I told them it was you. So we have somebody that is called the best of the best of Special Forces... and yet you expect me to believe he's weak in h2h combat... He's good with weapons.. tactics... hostage rescue.. but he missed the days where they taught h2h training.. are you saying he was just absent those days? I mean come on man.. do you know how you're sounding now... Somebody that is the best of the best special forces... you damn well better know is adept at h2h.. that is only common sense.

I doubt Hawkins is a slouch, since he is on a merc team the CIA consider the best there is. His catching of Poncho's wrapper while reading a comic is proof he's not just some dweeb.

No, the cops showed onscreen that their H2H sucks. And considering the small town, I doubt they're trained like NYPD.

Either way this is about Dutch, and considering:
1) He's had the same Green Beret training as Rambo, and Rambo wasn't the most impressive H2H combatant by any means
2) He's had a longer military career than Rambo, not including his merc years
3) He's considered the best by the CIA
4) He clearly enjoys using his strength, such as deadlifting the back of the truck
5) He's strong and quick enough to throw a large hunting knife at a man and pin him to the door
6) He's more durable than Rambo since he withstood blows from a superhuman and then semi-tanked a nuke (after getting hit with a plasma cannon which outright dismembered another man)

The facts say Dutch wins. Saying he loses purely because he didn't need to fight anybody H2H in front of the audience is ridiculous.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't answer the question though... You keep acting like I said being tactical means you are great at h2h.. never said such a thing. Just like being a bus driver doesn't make you good at using weapons and having military training. That is the case here... He's no communications specialist turned general... HE'S A G.B. which are some of the best of the best in multiple facets of armed or unarmed combat. Would you agree with that? So why then, would somebody get accepted to be in the G.B. make it in the G.B.'s.. show yourself superior to others in your company and rise to be the leader of them. Not some paper pusher leader.. Dutch was LEADING the special forces sent in. Dillon even remarks in the very beginning.. we wanted the best of the best.. and I told them it was you. So we have somebody that is called the best of the best of Special Forces... and yet you expect me to believe he's weak in h2h combat... He's good with weapons.. tactics... hostage rescue.. but he missed the days where they taught h2h training.. are you saying he was just absent those days? I mean come on man.. do you know how you're sounding now... Somebody that is the best of the best special forces... you damn well better know is adept at h2h.. that is only common sense.

Sigh. Let me put this to you in simpler terms so that you'll understand. You become a leader in the military not because of great h2h proficiency but because your actually a good leader.

Dutch has h2h training. There was never any question about that. But you don't need to be great at h2h to become a great soldier. Hate to break it to you pal, but majority of the fighting that a soldier does is not via h2h combat. You can become an incredible soldier with a whole load of battles operations won even with just above average h2h skills. Majority of a soldier's training is not h2h, that's just part of the curriculum. Put a veteran soldier in a cage against a veteran UFC fighter and majority of the time the UFC fighter will dominate. That's because although soldiers are trained for h2h, that's not their area of expertise.

So is Dutch trained h2h fighter? Yup. Definitely better than your average joe. Is he better than someone who's had h2h training as well? Questionable. Depends on the other fighter. We know next to nothing about Dutch's skill. The only thing we know is he's too slow to evade the Pred's slow punch.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Somebody that is the best of the best special forces... you damn well better know is adept at h2h.. that is only common sense.

👆

And Dutch's team were referred to as the best there is by the CIA, and I doubt their info was faulty.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The only thing we know is he's too slow to evade the Pred's slow punch.

so you think Rambo has the H2H skill to outmaneuver the Predator? 😆

Originally posted by Lestov16
so you think Rambo has the H2H skill to outmaneuver the Predator? 😆

I think he has the h2h skills to dodge a couple of the Pred's hits, launch a couple of counter attacks of his own, and generally give the pred a better fight than what Dutch did, before losing to the physical superiority of the pred unless he also uses tactics against it or at least gets a weapon (like a knife or whatnot).

So Rambo, despite his supposed combat speed, will lose to the superior strength and durability of the Predator, but not the superior strength and durability of Dutch 😂

Originally posted by Lestov16
So Rambo, despite his supposed combat speed, will lose to the superior strength and durability of the Predator, but not the superior strength and durability of Dutch 😂

Uh, do you realize how stupid this statement sounds? Dutch is not as strong or as durable as the Predator. He's not even close. In pure h2h, Rambo will still probably lose to the pred, but he'll definitely give way better fight than Dutch did with his single punch.

Plus, you really have no proof that Dutch is more durable than Rambo.

Does Rambo have any durability feats equivalent tanking a plasma cannon to the shoulder that, when hitting another guy in the same area, outright dismembered him? Dutch was more durable, which is why he lasted as long as he did against the Predator. Rambo has no comparable durability, and would probably have been KOed taking the same hits Dutch did.

No, the cops showed onscreen that their H2H sucks. And considering the small town, I doubt they're trained like NYPD.

You're using quite a bit of double standard here. The cops were easily beat up by a superior opponent (Rambo) and your conclusion is this was because the cops suck and they probably had no training. And then in the same breath: Dutch was easily beat up by a superior opponent (Predator) and your conclusion is that he's a trained and very capable h2h fighter but his lopsided defeat was due to his superior opponent.

Either way this is about Dutch, and considering:
1) He's had the same Green Beret training as Rambo, and Rambo wasn't the most impressive H2H combatant by any means

Answer me this: If 20 soldiers graduate from the same green beret class, will they all be as good as each other in h2h combat?

2) He's had a longer military career than Rambo, not including his merc years

He has what, like 3 yrs on Rambo? Plus longer military career doesn't automatically mean busier. You're not always on training and you're not always on missions, so we don't really know who had more actuall experience.

3) He's considered the best by the CIA

Agreed. No where does it say that he's considered one of the best h2h fighters.

4) He clearly enjoys using his strength, such as deadlifting the back of the truck

Which is why powerlifters can automatically overpower other fighters in a h2h fight right?

5) He's strong and quick enough to throw a large hunting knife at a man and pin him to the door

Strength doesn't have much to do with it. I mean it matters, but it's more about technique and weight of knife. Good feat. Too bad it's not a knife throwing contest.

6) He's more durable than Rambo since he withstood blows from a superhuman and then semi-tanked a nuke (after getting hit with a plasma cannon which outright dismembered another man)

You don't really want to discuss durablity against Rambo. The guy suffered a couple days of starvation and torture and yet as soon as he was released he was beating up everyone that got in his way. He got shot in the torso, seared himself with gun powder, and still kept on fighting.

When Dutch was grazed by that plasma cannon at least he had the whole night to rest from it.

The facts say Dutch wins. Saying he loses purely because he didn't need to fight anybody H2H in front of the audience is ridiculous.

Saying he wins despite zero feats is even stupider. Basically your arguments are:

1. He's bigger, he'll overpower Rambo (which is actually a valid argument if it wasn't for the lack of evidence of #2)
2. He's every bit as good a fighter because he went through the same training.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Does Rambo have any durability feats equivalent tanking a plasma cannon to the shoulder that, when hitting another guy in the same area, outright dismembered him? Dutch was more durable, which is why he lasted as long as he did against the Predator. Rambo has no comparable durability, and would probably have been KOed taking the same hits Dutch did.

Of course I could be a douche and simply reply "Rambo went through the same training as Dutch. He's every bit as durable as Dutch". But instead I'll give you evidence backed up by feats.

The guy suffered a couple days of starvation and torture (electrecution and what not) and yet as soon as he was released he was beating up everyone that got in his way. He got shot in the torso, burned himself with gun powder, and still kept on fighting. And this was already after he'd been running and fighting.

When Dutch was grazed by that plasma cannon at least he had the whole night to rest from it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Concession accepted. You have no proof to back up your claim that Rambo has more training than dutch. Further, in terms of years in the force... Dutch has had more training in fact.

Again, my only claim was that Dutch was never shown to be able to drive a tank or fly a helicopter, which is backed up by the movie where he isn't shown to do either. IOW, I've backed up my claim.

Now back to the real topic, Dutch's lack of shown HTH skill.

Dutch all the way. They both have the same background in fighting so this is going to come down to physicality and Dutch wins that in spades, here.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Now back to the real topic, Dutch's lack of shown HTH skill.

Lack of H2H skill? Where did Dutch receive his training? The military. Where did, Rambo receive his? The military.Dutch didn't use his H2H skills until he had to because he DIDNT have to.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Lack of H2H skill? Where did Dutch receive his training? The military. Where did, Rambo receive his? The military.

Yes, Lack of shown HTH skill..but feel free to correct me by posting clips of Dutch's hth skill.

Originally posted by Lestov16
😆 Now you're saying the Predator was pulling it's punches? It challenged Dutch to a H2H fight to the death. What suggests it was going soft with it's hits?

It chose not kill him when it had him, it stripped all of it's weapons, it let Dutch hit him once to no effect. If the Predator wanted to kill Dutch with it's bare hands it could have easily snapped his neck, but instead it wanted to play with him. You see it bring out the claws when it decides to finish him.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Lack of H2H skill? Where did Dutch receive his training? The military. Where did, Rambo receive his? The military.Dutch didn't use his H2H skills until he had to because he DIDNT have to.

Not all soldiers are good fighters. It's possible that Dutch could have been just barely mediocre. We just don't know. So until we do Rambo > Dutch in h2h, because Rambo actually beat some people.

Again, that's only because Dutch didn't need to fight anybody. Dutch isn't just "a soldier", he's the head of the best American special ops team on the planet. Utterly ridiculous to think that someone so elite can't handle themself in a fight.

Feats >>>> no feats.