For comparison, since RL science is being applied:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(pressure)
1 ton (his average, so he apparently has feats ABOVE 1 ton) level strength, is 2200 lbs.
Assuming his knuckles are 0.5inch square in area, that means he's punching his foes with 2200psi. On average.
Sure, he has Kevlar in his gloves. But they are not 100% Kevlar - he has minute circuitry built into them, not to mention complex gas delivery systems etc built in them. All these would shatter when he throws his first punch.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85his gloves and boots are bullet proof. They are very durable. 1 ton is simply a small car.
How does fictional chi power help his clothes?Punching with that 1 ton of strength, spread over his knuckles, would burst his gloves.
His shoes, too.
We don't know the exact material of his gloves. They could have efficient dampeners to absorb shock, or the tools used inside the gloves are made of extraordinary material. The suspension of disbelief still exists.
Originally posted by h1a8
his gloves and boots are bullet proof. They are very durable. 1 ton is simply a small car.
Proof his boots are bulletproof?
Whilst his gloves are bulletproof, their internals aren't (the circuitry for his tasers, the tear gas deployment systems etc). What do you think happens when all these systems are sandwiched between a bulletproof layer, and the Batman's fists of fury?
Also, 1 ton is the LOW limit, according to you. He is easily a tonner in strength - which implies you think a good argument could be made of him being higher than that, with some feats of 10 tons.
As an example, the Oklahoma bomb had a pressure of 4000psi, or slightly less than 2tons of strength. If, as you assert, Batman is 'easily' 1 ton in strength, with many feats above that, and feats of 10 tons....you are essentially saying that Batman punches with the force of bombs.
Here is what his boots are made of. Leather, steel, with Nomex fibres. Now, don't forget, he also has tiny propellers built into them (for swimming). Imagine if he kicked with those...
Link, as it is tiny:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here is what his boots are made of. Leather, steel, with Nomex fibres. Now, don't forget, he also has tiny propellers built into them (for swimming). Imagine if he kicked with those...Link, as it is tiny:
I can't read the words at all. I have to go to a pc.
What's the source of that anyway?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85just because we don't know if his boots are bulletproof or not doesn't mean that they aren't (or more precisely can absorb 2200psi effectively). I claimed the suspension of disbelief holds because we don't know the material of his boots. Also there is more area of striking for the boots. So if force stays the same this means that pressure decreases. So his boots have to be less durable than gloves.
Proof his boots are bulletproof?Whilst his gloves are bulletproof, their internals aren't (the circuitry for his tasers, the tear gas deployment systems etc). What do you think happens when all these systems are sandwiched between a bulletproof layer, and the Batman's fists of fury?
Also, 1 ton is the LOW limit, according to you. He is easily a tonner in strength - which implies you think a good argument could be made of him being higher than that, with some feats of 10 tons.
As an example, the Oklahoma bomb had a pressure of 4000psi, or slightly less than 2tons of strength. If, as you assert, Batman is 'easily' 1 ton in strength, with many feats above that, and feats of 10 tons....you are essentially saying that Batman punches with the force of bombs.
Originally posted by h1a8
My key words is on average. Batman has feats above 10 tons of force but I'm giving him a ton here. Plus Thing and some low class 100s can ALWAYS smash up IM's suit which implies that it can, on average, support a few hundred tons of hand sized pressure. Thus lifting more than a few hundred tons is probably PIS. This makes sense because the suit is not even close to adamantium in strength.
Thing can lift more then 100 tons, so can IM. Class 100 doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. When you start out at Class 10 that person can lift 10 tons, but as you go into higher classes the number becomes more symbolic. Thing is not Class 100, but he can surely lift more then 100 tons.
Thing is around Class 80 even though he can lift over 100 tons. Why is he class 80, then? Because he isnt Superman level or Thor level, those guys are true Class 100's. So even though all of them can lift over 100 tons, Thing is at class 80 just to give an idea of the gap that still remains between people like Thing compared to Thor. Doesn't mean Thor can outlift him by 20 tons, but rather just that he doesn't belong in the same tier as Thor and belongs a tier or two below.
The system isn't perfect because you can still have two people that are Class 100's even though one is drastically stronger then the other(post crisis Supes and PC Supes are both Class 100's, but PC Supes is hilariously stronger).
Originally posted by h1a8
Space numbers. At least lunar/planetary or inconceivably large. So more than 1000 times.
So you used astronomically as an adjective that has no real measure. In my opinion, if a character is 20 times stronger then the other, then that's pretty astronomical to me.
I don't use space numbers
Originally posted by SurturI know everything you said here. It's like a 3rd grade teacher teaching math to a top PhD math professor. Thing can lift a little over 100 tons. 200 tons is pushing it for him. 100 tons is around his average though. The same goes for IM. He can lift aboutT 100tons on average. Thor can lift over a million tons. But most comics have him around a several hundred tons if not a thousand. Superman can lift over a million tons too. But he holds back depending on who's he's fighting.
Thing can lift more then 100 tons, so can IM. Class 100 doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. When you start out at Class 10 that person can lift 10 tons, but as you go into higher classes the number becomes more symbolic. Thing is not Class 100, but he can surely lift more then 100 tons.Thing is around Class 80 even though he can lift over 100 tons. Why is he class 80, then? Because he isnt Superman level or Thor level, those guys are true Class 100's. So even though all of them can lift over 100 tons, Thing is at class 80 just to give an idea of the gap that still remains between people like Thing compared to Thor. Doesn't mean Thor can outlift him by 20 tons, but rather just that he doesn't belong in the same tier as Thor and belongs a tier or two below.
The system isn't perfect because you can still have two people that are Class 100's even though one is drastically stronger then the other(post crisis Supes and PC Supes are both Class 100's, but PC Supes is hilariously stronger).
Originally posted by h1a8
I know everything you said here. It's like a 3rd grade teacher teaching math to a top PhD math professor. Thing can lift a little over 100 tons. 200 tons is pushing it for him. 100 tons is around his average though. The same goes for IM. He can lift aboutT 100tons on average. Thor can lift over a million tons. But most comics have him around a several hundred tons if not a thousand. Superman can lift over a million tons too. But he holds back depending on who's he's fighting.
No. The same thing that applies to Thor, IM, the Thing and a multitude of other characters applies to Superman as well. It depends on the story.
Originally posted by h1a8
I know everything you said here. It's like a 3rd grade teacher teaching math to a top PhD math professor. Thing can lift a little over 100 tons. 200 tons is pushing it for him. 100 tons is around his average though. The same goes for IM. He can lift aboutT 100tons on average. Thor can lift over a million tons. But most comics have him around a several hundred tons if not a thousand. Superman can lift over a million tons too. But he holds back depending on who's he's fighting.
You say you know everything said, but then still continue to make claims that on average IM can only lift 100 tons.
The Thing has made futuristic skyscrapers into melee weapons. That takes more then 200 tons of strength.
Originally posted by h1a8
I can't read the words at all. I have to go to a pc.What's the source of that anyway?
just because we don't know if his boots are bulletproof or not doesn't mean that they aren't (or more precisely can absorb 2200psi effectively). I claimed the suspension of disbelief holds because we don't know the material of his boots. Also there is more area of striking for the boots. So if force stays the same this means that pressure decreases. So his boots have to be less durable than gloves.
Also punching something with just work gloves with 2200psi would result in the gloves remaining intact.
I will wait.
DC Handbook.
So IOW, your claim of Batman's boots being bulletproof are proven, NOT because you have scans of them deflecting bullets, but because....Batman's bomb feet haven't exploded them. Moreover, with a heel strike, the surface area would be roughly the same (1 square inch).
Yes, but you said he is easily a tonner in strength - which implies you think a good argument could be made of him being higher than that, with some feats of 10 tons. 2,200 psi is the low range, IOW.
Proof of 2,200 PSI not exploding gloves like Bats? Remember, he doesn't just have skin tight gloves - he also has gas pellet deployment systems, tasers, comms, lockpicks etc in there. Not to mention, tools surgically hidden in his hands. When he punches with his 'easily' 1 ton strength, which would be on the low side, that should pretty much blow his hands up.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I will wait.DC Handbook.
So IOW, your claim of Batman's boots being bulletproof are proven, NOT because you have scans of them deflecting bullets, but because....Batman's bomb feet haven't exploded them. Moreover, with a heel strike, the surface area would be roughly the same (1 square inch).
Yes, but you said he is easily a tonner in strength - which implies you think a good argument could be made of him being higher than that, with some feats of 10 tons. 2,200 psi is the low range, IOW.
Proof of 2,200 PSI not exploding gloves like Bats? Remember, he doesn't just have skin tight gloves - he also has gas pellet deployment systems, tasers, comms, lockpicks etc in there. Not to mention, tools surgically hidden in his hands. When he punches with his 'easily' 1 ton strength, which would be on the low side, that should pretty much blow his hands up.
2. I admit, I don't know if Batman's boots are bulletproof. Tbh, they don't have to be. You can run over some work gloves with a large truck and they will still be intact. Plus A heel strike has at least 5 times the area of 2 knuckles.
3. I doubt he has those tools under his 2 knuckles (where he strikes) or on the balls of his feet or heel.
4. The gloves obviously reflects bullets. They means they are elastic and bounces the bullet back (absorbing kinetic energy and transferring most of it back).
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Batman is a tonner on average. So no argument can be made of him being higher. 1ton is tops for him in a forum. So that's what we will use.2. I admit, I don't know if Batman's boots are bulletproof. Tbh, they don't have to be. You can run over some work gloves with a large truck and they will still be intact. Plus A heel strike has at least 5 times the area of 2 knuckles.
3. I doubt he has those tools under his 2 knuckles (where he strikes) or on the balls of his feet or heel.
4. The gloves obviously reflects bullets. They means they are elastic and bounces the bullet back (absorbing kinetic energy and transferring most of it back).
1. OK. I was only using your own words.
2. Running over them is different from busting out of them. Plus I suggest you reacquaint yourself with the inch measurement.
3. He has the tools in his palm, and running up his fingertips (on the pads). You know, the bit that he clenches. He has the propellers in the heel. Good thing comics don't rely on what you doubt or not.
4. So is that chi or his gloves? What feats does he have of 1 ton in strength?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. OK. I was only using your own words.2. Running over them is different from busting out of them. Plus I suggest you reacquaint yourself with the inch measurement.
3. He has the tools in his palm, and running up his fingertips (on the pads). You know, the bit that he clenches. He has the propellers in the heel. Good thing comics don't rely on what you doubt or not.
4. So is that chi or his gloves? What feats does he have of 1 ton in strength?
2. But we don't know the exact material the gloves are made of. That's why the suspension of disbelief still holds. Bullets bounce off the gloves proving that they are elastic and absorb kinetic energy and transfer most of it back.
Paint your 2 striking knuckles (index and middle) and strike something. Look at the area. Then paint your heel and strike something. The area from the heal is about 5 times that of the 2 knuckles combined (10x 1 knuckle).
3. Same reasoning as 2. above. The gloves bounce bullets back proves they protect what's inside. We don't know the exact materials that make up the boots or the tools inside. Plus the heel is a much larger striking area reducing the pressure. So the suspension of disbelief still exists.
4. His gloves. Chi wasn't even mentioned at all in those scenes. I argued chi to support his strength. Usually his feats are more or less than 1 ton, very hard to find 1 exactly 1 ton.
I just don't get how you say chi power makes sense but IM's suit being able to handle massive weights even though it isn't made of adamantium is hard to believe?
The suit not being durable enough to withstand the weight is just a selective applying of physics by the writers, it doesn't mean you say the suit can't lift the weights it has been shown to. Just like lots of things with super strength..a lot of characters hold up things via super strength that, in reality, would of collapsed/fallen apart/whatever, but they don't.
Originally posted by h1a8
2. But we don't know the exact material the gloves are made of. That's why the suspension of disbelief still holds. Bullets bounce off the gloves proving that they are elastic and absorb kinetic energy and transfer most of it back.
Paint your 2 striking knuckles (index and middle) and strike something. Look at the area. Then paint your heel and strike something. The area from the heal is about 5 times that of the 2 knuckles combined (10x 1 knuckle).3. Same reasoning as 2. above. The gloves bounce bullets back proves they protect what's inside. We don't know the exact materials that make up the boots or the tools inside. Plus the heel is a much larger striking area reducing the pressure. So the suspension of disbelief still exists.
4. His gloves. Chi wasn't even mentioned at all in those scenes. I argued chi to support his strength. Usually his feats are more or less than 1 ton, very hard to find 1 exactly 1 ton.
2. Not really.
3. Please read the scan I posted when you get to a PC. Also, if they are so nice and bouncy (so as to bounce bullets off, something that no bulletproof vest does) and yet, elastic (unlike something like bulletproof glass which DOES bounce bullets off), then how does Batman's chi power ever hurt ANYONE? You've got his gloves which are made out of a magical material, harder than bullets (like bulletproof glass) yet, elastic and stretchy (as they're gloves), and yet......I mean, you don't really understand basic mechanics, do you?
4. Ok, what scans have you to show that on average, across the 5,000 or so comic appearances of Batman Post Crisis, where he shows 1 ton strength? You say he has feats MORE or less than 1 ton, and yet, earlier, said 1 ton is tops for him in the forum? Eh?
Originally posted by Surtur
Thing can lift more then 100 tons, so can IM. Class 100 doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. When you start out at Class 10 that person can lift 10 tons, but as you go into higher classes the number becomes more symbolic. Thing is not Class 100, but he can surely lift more then 100 tons.Thing is around Class 80 even though he can lift over 100 tons. Why is he class 80, then? Because he isnt Superman level or Thor level, those guys are true Class 100's. So even though all of them can lift over 100 tons, Thing is at class 80 just to give an idea of the gap that still remains between people like Thing compared to Thor. Doesn't mean Thor can outlift him by 20 tons, but rather just that he doesn't belong in the same tier as Thor and belongs a tier or two below.
The system isn't perfect because you can still have two people that are Class 100's even though one is drastically stronger then the other(post crisis Supes and PC Supes are both Class 100's, but PC Supes is hilariously stronger).
Ben is CL100 like it or not
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
2. Not really.3. Please read the scan I posted when you get to a PC. Also, if they are so nice and bouncy (so as to bounce bullets off, something that no bulletproof vest does) and yet, elastic (unlike something like bulletproof glass which DOES bounce bullets off), then how does Batman's chi power ever hurt ANYONE? You've got his gloves which are made out of a magical material, harder than bullets (like bulletproof glass) yet, elastic and stretchy (as they're gloves), and yet......I mean, you don't really understand basic mechanics, do you?
4. Ok, what scans have you to show that on average, across the 5,000 or so comic appearances of Batman Post Crisis, where he shows 1 ton strength? You say he has feats MORE or less than 1 ton, and yet, earlier, said 1 ton is tops for him in the forum? Eh?
3. This is comics. Materials can be fictitious (e.g. Adamantium). This keeps the suspension of disbelief alive. As long as we don't know the complete makeup of stuff it doesn't really hurt science at all. And the larger striking area of the heel reduces pressure.
4. I'm going by averages. Clearly Superman isn't coming into a forum fight with 80 Earth weights of strength, even if he's not holding back. Batman has many showings a little under a ton and many a little above a ton. He has few feats far above a ton and few feats far below a ton. Some feats are 1-2 ton feats, some are 400-600lb feats, etc. In a forum he fights roughly with a ton of strength max.
