Sentry vs Superman

Originally posted by h1a8
3. This is comics. Materials can be fictitious (e.g. Adamantium). This keeps the suspension of disbelief alive. As long as we don't know the complete makeup of stuff it doesn't really hurt science at all. And the larger striking area of the heel reduces pressure.

4. I'm going by averages. Clearly Superman isn't coming into a forum fight with 80 Earth weights of strength, even if he's not holding back. Batman has many showings a little under a ton and many a little above a ton. He has few feats far above a ton and few feats far below a ton. Some feats are 1-2 ton feats, some are 400-600lb feats, etc. In a forum he fights roughly with a ton of strength max.

If forum Batman fights at roughly 1 ton max, why is it that you even bothered to chime in, and debate that he was more than this in comparison to Iron Man? 1 ton max compared to a 100,000 ton max is comparatively astronomical. Isn't it?

Originally posted by h1a8
3. This is comics. Materials can be fictitious (e.g. Adamantium). This keeps the suspension of disbelief alive. As long as we don't know the complete makeup of stuff it doesn't really hurt science at all. And the larger striking area of the heel reduces pressure.

4. I'm going by averages. Clearly Superman isn't coming into a forum fight with 80 Earth weights of strength, even if he's not holding back. Batman has many showings a little under a ton and many a little above a ton. He has few feats far above a ton and few feats far below a ton. Some feats are 1-2 ton feats, some are 400-600lb feats, etc. In a forum he fights roughly with a ton of strength max.

3. Have you read the scan I posted? Please do. Also, you are not getting my point for this number, and are just glossing over it.

You are asking for a material that is super hard (bullets cannot pierce it) and bouncy (they don't just deflect bullets, they bounce them right back). I am ok with this - adamantium, for example. Its comics.

You, however, also want it to be elastic. They have to be, otherwise Batman can never flex his hand. This would make the material not super hard, like adamantium, but super bouncy, like an incredible pillow.

Now, imagine what happens when Batman punches someone with this super bouncy pillow and his 1 ton strength? Conservation of momentum. Basic mechanics. Batman will bounce right off that person the same way a bullet bounces off him. For a Maths prof (as you compared yourself to earlier) this is pretty basic stuff.

4. What are these feats? Say there are around 100 comic appearances of Batman a year. Post Crisis up to New 52, that's around 25 years of comics. Obviously, he doesn't fight in every single appearance, so let's say 50% of them are fights/feats. So that means we have 25 x 100 x 0.5 = 1250 showings of Batman exhibiting an average of 1 ton in strength. You were saying he had some feats of 10 tons, which would mean he had some feats so far below a ton, it brings the average back down.

So what are these 1 ton feats? I am obv not going to ask you to post 1250 feats, but a nice selection would do (where his gloves etc won't be aiding him). 10 showings. 10 scans would be nice, of separate fights/showings. Or issue numbers.

Edit: you know what, I am being unfair. I can't expect you to trawl through all those Batman comics you have (and you MUST have read a large amount, right, in order to arrive at the conclusion of his average).

Keep it to New 52 Batman. That way, you have less comics to wade through. 10 showings of his 1 ton strength, please. Unaided (of course!) by his equipment and clothing, or any other amps. Should be waaaay easier now, as Batman only has 41 issues, Detective Comics only has 41, JLA is only 41 etc etc. 10 scans or issue numbers showcasing his 1 ton strength.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
3. Have you read the scan I posted? Please do. Also, you are not getting my point for this number, and are just glossing over it.

You are asking for a material that is super hard (bullets cannot pierce it) and bouncy (they don't just deflect bullets, they bounce them right back). I am ok with this - adamantium, for example. Its comics.

You, however, also want it to be elastic. They have to be, otherwise Batman can never flex his hand. This would make the material not super hard, like adamantium, but super bouncy, like an incredible pillow.

Now, imagine what happens when Batman punches someone with this super bouncy pillow and his 1 ton strength? Conservation of momentum. Basic mechanics. Batman will bounce right off that person the same way a bullet bounces off him. For a Maths prof (as you compared yourself to earlier) this is pretty basic stuff.

4. What are these feats? Say there are around 100 comic appearances of Batman a year. Post Crisis up to New 52, that's around 25 years of comics. Obviously, he doesn't fight in every single appearance, so let's say 50% of them are fights/feats. So that means we have 25 x 100 x 0.5 = 1250 showings of Batman exhibiting an average of 1 ton in strength. You were saying he had some feats of 10 tons, which would mean he had some feats so far below a ton, it brings the average back down.

So what are these 1 ton feats? I am obv not going to ask you to post 1250 feats, but a nice selection would do (where his gloves etc won't be aiding him). 10 showings. 10 scans would be nice, of separate fights/showings. Or issue numbers.

3. This is comics, so material like that can exist like you said. As far as conservation of momentum, it still holds.
In a standing attack, Batman's feet is connected to the ground. So when he punches he pushes off the ground into the target. When he strikes, he gives most of the momentum to the target as his own momentum is nearly stopped from the Earth. Now momentum is also in the form of deformation (or damage). So the character he's striking doesn't have to fly back, especially considering his target is also connected to the Earth as well.

4. I keep saying that he's has absolutely no feats at exactly 1 ton. Mostly are a little under a ton or a little over a ton (unless he's holding back). Any more than 10 tons are rare and do not budge the average very much. In other words, Batman doesn't need showings far below to average out the 10 ton feats. He just need a lot of feats that average around 1ton to make outliers nearly irrelevant. When I say around I mean anything from 0.5ton to 1ton. But the max in a forum is 1 ton. It's acceptable if someone wanted to use half a ton for Batman in a forum, just not more than 1 ton.

Originally posted by Stoic
If forum Batman fights at roughly 1 ton max, why is it that you even bothered to chime in, and debate that he was more than this in comparison to Iron Man? 1 ton max compared to a 100,000 ton max is comparatively astronomical. Isn't it?

Originally posted by h1a8
3. This is comics, so material like that can exist like you said. As far as conservation of momentum, it still holds.
In a standing attack, Batman's feet is connected to the ground. So when he punches he pushes off the ground into the target. When he strikes, he gives most of the momentum to the target as his own momentum is nearly stopped from the Earth. Now momentum is also in the form of deformation (or damage). So the character he's striking doesn't have to fly back, especially considering his target is also connected to the Earth as well.

4. I keep saying that he's has absolutely no feats at exactly 1 ton. Mostly are a little under a ton or a little over a ton (unless he's holding back). Any more than 10 tons are rare and do not budge the average very much. In other words, Batman doesn't need showings far below to average out the 10 ton feats. He just need a lot of feats that average around 1ton to make outliers nearly irrelevant. When I say around I mean anything from 0.5ton to 1ton. But the max in a forum is 1 ton. It's acceptable if someone wanted to use half a ton for Batman in a forum, just not more than 1 ton.

3. That the material has the potential to exist, I am not quibbling. At all. That is NOT my point.

You said it yourself. Conservation of momentum can occur in the form of deformation (or damage).

You have given Batman gloves that are elastic. So elastic, bullets bounce off it. We know it cannot be due to its hardness, like bulletproof glass or metal plate, because if it were, Batman's gloves would be like plate armour or scales - but they are not. Therefore, they are made of a material that is flexible, not hard. I do not quibble this. Please understand my point.

My point is, when Batman punches with this material which bounces bullets off, with his 1 ton strength, all it would achieve is that his fist would bounce off criminals. Your analogy of him being rooted is nonsensical, unless every punch that Batman delivers is at 90 degrees to the ground.

4. So you are gradually creeping down, I see. From 'easily' a ton, with 'many feats' above this, and 'some feats at 10 tons', we are now going down to 0.5-1 ton.

So OK. DCnU Batman, from 2011-date, no alt reality Bats (of course!), 10 showings showcasing his average of 1 ton. Please re-read my posts - I am asking for showings of him AVERAGING a ton, not 'EXACTLY' 1 ton. Please, stop trying to make out as if I am asking for Alfred to jump out with some scales and measures after every feat. Just feats that average 1 ton (although, lol at your definition of 'around'. Your tolerance levels of 100%, from 0.5-1 is pretty broad).

So go on. 10 showings, New 52 Bats, no equipment aiding him. Should be easy-peasy for you. As you said, he just needs a lot of feats that average around 1 ton. So post them.

Edit: if it is too difficult for you, then issue numbers will suffice. New52 Batman is currently on issue #41 - same with JLA, Detective Comics etc.

I estimate New 52 Batman has around 150 appearance, guest starring etc.

Within them, it is nonsense to suggest that he flexes and showcases his impressive 1 ton on average strength (+-50%, apparently). He IS, after all, the World's Greatest Detective, not the World's Greatest Strongman. So let's say, he averages a fight every two issues (which is generous, considering we have storylines like the Court of Owls where he's fighting nonstop for several issues, or the training sequences).

So out of the 150 appearances, there will be 75 instances of him showing his impressive musculature, and performing these deeds of strength.

All I ask is of 10. Simple, no? Doesn't have to be scans, issue numbers will suffice.

Standard Sentry wins 7/10

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

My point is, when Batman punches with this material which bounces bullets off, with his 1 ton strength, all it would achieve is that his fist would bounce off criminals. Your analogy of him being rooted is nonsensical, unless every punch that Batman delivers is at 90 degrees to the ground.

Lol, this is where you are surely wrong. Newton's 3rd and 2nd Laws of motion shows that a person has to be anchored in order to push or hit something with more or equal mass away, while themselves not going backwards. In other words, humans are able to push and move more massive objects forward because of being connected to the ground. Friction is a great force.

4. So you are gradually creeping down, I see. From 'easily' a ton, with 'many feats' above this, and 'some feats at 10 tons', we are now going down to 0.5-1 ton.

So OK. DCnU Batman, from 2011-date, no alt reality Bats (of course!), 10 showings showcasing his average of 1 ton. Please re-read my posts - I am asking for showings of him AVERAGING a ton, not 'EXACTLY' 1 ton. Please, stop trying to make out as if I am asking for Alfred to jump out with some scales and measures after every feat. Just feats that average 1 ton (although, lol at your definition of 'around'. Your tolerance levels of 100%, from 0.5-1 is pretty broad).

[b]So go on. 10 showings, New 52 Bats, no equipment aiding him. Should be easy-peasy for you. As you said, he just needs a lot of feats that average around 1 ton. So post them.

Edit: if it is too difficult for you, then issue numbers will suffice. New52 Batman is currently on issue #41 - same with JLA, Detective Comics etc.

I estimate New 52 Batman has around 150 appearance, guest starring etc.

Within them, it is nonsense to suggest that he flexes and showcases his impressive 1 ton on average strength (+-50%, apparently). He IS, after all, the World's Greatest Detective, not the World's Greatest Strongman. So let's say, he averages a fight every two issues (which is generous, considering we have storylines like the Court of Owls where he's fighting nonstop for several issues, or the training sequences).

So out of the 150 appearances, there will be 75 instances of him showing his impressive musculature, and performing these deeds of strength.

All I ask is of 10. Simple, no? Doesn't have to be scans, issue numbers will suffice. [/B]

Originally posted by h1a8

What point are you trying to make here? Debating is about making a claim and supporting it with premises. If you don't believe Batman is a 1 tonner then say so. If I prove or fail to prove that his feats average to 1 ton then that wouldn't make any progress in the actual debate. It's really moot unless you don't think he's a 1 tonner.

So you cant back up your claim. Lets just move on.

Why is the Sentry vs Superman discussion revolving around Batman's strength???

H1

Originally posted by tkitna
So you cant back up your claim. Lets just move on.

It's not known to others whether I can back up my claim. The point is that it is irrelevant here. There is no argument or disagreement. So what's the point?

Originally posted by ODG

Why is the Sentry vs Superman discussion revolving around Batman's strength???

Basically I claimed that some Sentry is weak due to mental instability.
For example, IM busted Sentry's nose with a punch while Superman is astronomically stronger than IM. But I also said that other Sentry would beat Superman.

1. Tkitna said that IM is astronomically stronger than Batman on Venom and Batman on venom bloodied Superman.
2. I said that IM is not astronomically stronger than normal Batman as he is a 100 tonner while Batman is around a ton. I went on to support it by stating that characters with 100 tons of strength (Thing) can consistently smash IM's suit proving that on average the suit can't support more than a few hundred tons of pressure in the size of a fist.
3. Then Darksaint asked if I really think Bats is a tonner on average.

And that's how it got started.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not known to others whether I can back up my claim.

😆

Isnt that the truth

This is a hard fight for Supes. He will have to not hold back and get bloodlusted.

Originally posted by h1a8
What point are you trying to make here? Debating is about making a claim and supporting it with premises. If you don't believe Batman is a 1 tonner then say so. If I prove or fail to prove that his feats average to 1 ton then that wouldn't make any progress in the actual debate. It's really moot unless you don't think he's a 1 tonner.

I do not believe he is a 1 tonner. I can create a vs thread and you can prove your claims. Like you said, debating is making a claim, and supporting it. You claimed he is 1 ton on average (sometimes more, sometimes less, very rarely - if at all - exactly 1 ton). So prove it.

10 showings, DCnU Bats, without help from his clothing (i.e. his bulletproof clothes etc), equipment or any other amps.

Stable sentry wins,unstable loses,high end and above stomps

Superman loses every fight and every sane kmcer is happy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I do not believe he is a 1 tonner. I can create a vs thread and you can prove your claims. Like you said, debating is making a claim, and supporting it. You claimed he is 1 ton on average (sometimes more, sometimes less, very rarely - if at all - exactly 1 ton). So prove it.

10 showings, DCnU Bats, without help from his clothing (i.e. his bulletproof clothes etc), equipment or any other amps.

Sentry.