Originally posted by abhilegend
Or maybe marvel fanboys are just that daft.WWH? Pfft. A weakened superman went toe to toe with Pre-crisis Superman himself.
And then was beating down Infinity Man who oneshot disintegrated Orion. Sentry's aura was calming hulk there anyway and Sentry beating Void isn't a measure of power or strength.
I don't get the point of the scans. Also, are you arguing that Kal is on par with Pre-Crisis Kryptonians?
Except Infinity Man was empowered by the source to kill the New Gods and had no interest in fighting Superman. Actually, as revealed earlier against Richards, that didn't work anymore. A lot of things didn't work anymore like telepathy etc. against this version of Hulk.
Actually, for a long time, Sentry was them more powerful persona which defeated the Void.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't get the point of the scans. Also, are you arguing that Kal is on par with Pre-Crisis Kryptonians?Except Infinity Man was empowered by the source to kill the New Gods and had no interest in fighting Superman. Actually, as revealed earlier against Richards, that didn't work anymore. A lot of things didn't work anymore like telepathy etc. against this version of Hulk.
Actually, for a long time, Sentry was them more powerful persona which defeated the Void.
IM agreed that superman would've taken him down and he wasn't kryptonite or something to new gods, he on panel got a huge boost by Source to kill new gods by raw power. I was talking about Void breaking savage hulk's bones, it was a calm hulk.
At that point Void was nothing but a creation of Reynolds' mind. It is as much of a power showing as Kyle Rayner beating Oblivion or something like that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was revealed that the superman who came from future was pre-crisis superman. That line from Lois should've tipped you off already. Are you trying to dismiss those scans?IM agreed that superman would've taken him down and he wasn't kryptonite or something to new gods, he on panel got a huge boost by Source to kill new gods by raw power. I was talking about Void breaking savage hulk's bones, it was a calm hulk.
At that point Void was nothing but a creation of Reynolds' mind. It is as much of a power showing as Kyle Rayner beating Oblivion or something like that.
I get that the last page is a homage to Alan Moore's comic but no, I don't think this means he's Pre-Crisis Superman in power levels. Why do you think I'd come to the conclusion when the scans you yourself posted tells us all that we need to know about his power levels: That he might be stronger to an extent then modern Superman. Similar to Kal-L and Kingdom Come Superman. Not that he can sneeze away planets.
Scan of that? Actually, we saw that Infinity Man could act like some form of Kryptonite, killing New Gods from the inside like Takion. And other new gods were found with similar holes in their chest. Also, I specifically remember Infinity Man being able to further tap into the Source for power revealed when he fought Scott. Based on this, how can you think this is a fair comparison?
I don't have the mini on me but Sentry and Void were actual enemies of each other. They got into real fights, people really died.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I get that the last page is a homage to Alan Moore's comic but no, I don't think this means he's Pre-Crisis Superman in power levels. Why do you think I'd come to the conclusion when the scans you yourself posted tells us all that we need to know about his power levels: That he might be stronger to an extent then modern Superman. Similar to Kal-L and Kingdom Come Superman. Not that he can sneeze away planets.Scan of that? Actually, we saw that Infinity Man could act like some form of Kryptonite, killing New Gods from the inside like Takion. And other new gods were found with similar holes in their chest. Also, I specifically remember Infinity Man being able to further tap into the Source for power revealed when he fought Scott. Based on this, how can you think this is a fair comparison?
I don't have the mini on me but Sentry and Void were actual enemies of each other. They got into real fights, people really died.
Now you're going ass-backwards. It wasn't a homage to Alan Moore's story. There is an actual timeline where pre-crisis characters resides which was explored in PAD's supergirl series. You are acting like being stronger than Superman means he doesn't have feats of his own and that pretty much shits on WWH. Here is superman actually knocking out PC Mon-El who wasn't retconned in power by COIE and was a peer to PC superboy.
Going toe to toe with WWH is a nice strength feat, but it doesn't automatically means you're stronger than Superman who has gone toe to toe with much stronger opponent. Heck, he went toe to toe with Time Trapper SBP for several pages and matched Kal-L in strength who oneshotted PC superman by a suckershot and fought him to a double KO another time.
Deny all you want but Kal-L's showings are intact post-crisis.
That was his soul stealing power. Its not being anymore of a kryptonite than Thor stealing Loki's soul makes him asgardians' kryptonite. Here is the scan of Infinity Man being amped.
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/sp/10346d2047617ad82478683c3fa8b1d2/1.jpg
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/sp/72bfdea4c9789d0479c7c83155f29196/2.jpg
I'm not talking about IM when he fought Scott. I was talking about standard DONG IM who disintegrated Orion.
Nah, it was all Sentry's doing. He was a schizophrenic whose powers manifested by a light construct by his dark thoughts.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Now you're going ass-backwards. It wasn't a homage to Alan Moore's story. There is an actual timeline where pre-crisis characters resides which was explored in PAD's supergirl series. You are acting like being stronger than Superman means he doesn't have feats of his own and that pretty much shits on WWH. Here is superman actually knocking out PC Mon-El who wasn't retconned in power by COIE and was a peer to PC superboy.Going toe to toe with WWH is a nice strength feat, but it doesn't automatically means you're stronger than Superman who has gone toe to toe with much stronger opponent. Heck, he went toe to toe with Time Trapper SBP for several pages and matched Kal-L in strength who oneshotted PC superman by a suckershot and fought him to a double KO another time.
That was his soul stealing power. Its not being anymore of a kryptonite than Thor stealing Loki's soul makes him asgardians' kryptonite. Here is the scan of Infinity Man being amped.
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/sp/10346d2047617ad82478683c3fa8b1d2/1.jpg
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/sp/72bfdea4c9789d0479c7c83155f29196/2.jpgI'm not talking about IM when he fought Scott. I was talking about standard DONG IM who disintegrated Orion.
Nah, it was all Sentry's doing. He was a schizophrenic whose powers manifested by a light construct by his dark thoughts.
You still don't get it. I understand that some characters did not lose their histories after the Crisis such as the New Gods, Green Lanterns IIRC and some Legion timelines. What you don't seem to understand is that I don't think that automatically means their power levels are anywhere near what they were at the high point of the Bronze Age, much less the Silver Age. I'm not as well versed in DC history as I am in Marvel's, but I'm not going to buy what you're selling just like that.
Links are dead. I didn't say standard Sentry is stronger then Superman because he fought World War Hulk. But the notion that he'd rip Sentry apart is outright retarded.
How do you know he wasn't tapping into a higher level of power against Orion when his death was a massive explosion caused off-panel?
Simply put, Infinity Man's fluctuating power levels, ability to mess with New Gods due to their connection to the source and so on means that the comparison isn't fair. Not to mention I recall Infinity Man not wanting to even fight Clark and simply trapping as he left.
What do you mean, nah? We saw it happen.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You still don't get it. I understand that some characters did not lose their histories after the Crisis such as the New Gods, Green Lanterns IIRC and some Legion timelines. What you don't seem to understand is that I don't think that automatically means their power levels are anywhere near what they were at the high point of the Bronze Age, much less the Silver Age. I'm not as well versed in DC history as I am in Marvel's, but I'm not going to buy what you're selling just like that.Links are dead. I didn't say standard Sentry is stronger then Superman because he fought World War Hulk. But the notion that he'd rip Sentry apart is outright retarded.
How do you know he wasn't tapping into a higher level of power against Orion when his death was a massive explosion caused off-panel?
Simply put, Infinity Man's fluctuating power levels, ability to mess with New Gods due to their connection to the source and so on means that the comparison isn't fair. Not to mention I recall Infinity Man not wanting to even fight Clark and simply trapping as he left.
What do you mean, nah? We saw it happen.
And his peer Pocket Dimension Superboy channeling universe destroying energies from COIE itself and even after that breaching Time-trapper's Iron Curtain of Time which was impossible to breach for even PC Superman.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00012.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00013.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00014.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00015.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00016.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00018.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00019.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00020.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00021.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00022.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00023.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00024.jpg
They have their feats, they have their stories and all that but it doesn't matter? What kind of logic is that?
Here you go.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15854409/1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15854410/2.jpg.html
Also nobody said that Superman would rip sentry apart, it was you and Id who said that Sentry would go straight through Superman. I ask again where is the proof?
By that logic how do you know that he wasn't tapping in the same source against Superman when he outright said that "Depart and you shall be spared".
Oh, he was fighting with his mind in it alright. There is no indication that he didn't want to fight superman. He even threatened to kill superman if he didn't depart.
It was all his own power untill Bendis retconned it. Void was nothing but a light construct of sentry's mind.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI agree that this writer did not carry over the power levels we saw in pre crisis. It is like trying to say look what happened to Mangog last week and saying silver age is still canon.
You still don't get it. I understand that some characters did not lose their histories after the Crisis such as the New Gods, Green Lanterns IIRC and some Legion timelines. What you don't seem to understand is that I don't think that automatically means their power levels are anywhere near what they were at the high point of the Bronze Age, much less the Silver Age. I'm not as well versed in DC history as I am in Marvel's, but I'm not going to buy what you're selling just like that.Links are dead. I didn't say standard Sentry is stronger then Superman because he fought World War Hulk. But the notion that he'd rip Sentry apart is outright retarded.
How do you know he wasn't tapping into a higher level of power against Orion when his death was a massive explosion caused off-panel?
Simply put, Infinity Man's fluctuating power levels, ability to mess with New Gods due to their connection to the source and so on means that the comparison isn't fair. Not to mention I recall Infinity Man not wanting to even fight Clark and simply trapping as he left.
What do you mean, nah? We saw it happen.
Infinity Man also easily contained Superman. He was more of a nuisance and one easily dealt with as opposed to Orion who needed to be outright destroyed as that was the only way. Yes, his powers were also attuned in taking down New gods so he was better suited against them than Superman.
Sentry is just on another plane of overall power. That's how he has been portrayed for a while unlike Superman who is just a really formidable Kryptonian.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
LOL@Sentry beating Superman because he can withstand a slugfest with Hulk for a little while.Having said that, Sentry wins.
Anyways, Sentry's insane versatility makes this his fight to lose.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What kind of shit is that? Why would their histories would be intact but not their powerlevels when we actually saw Mon-El doig this kind of shit post crisis.And his peer Pocket Dimension Superboy channeling universe destroying energies from COIE itself and even after that breaching Time-trapper's Iron Curtain of Time which was impossible to breach for even PC Superman.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00012.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00013.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00014.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00015.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00016.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00018.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00019.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00020.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00021.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00022.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00023.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/P00024.jpgThey have their feats, they have their stories and all that but it doesn't matter? What kind of logic is that?
Here you go.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15854409/1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15854410/2.jpg.htmlAlso nobody said that Superman would rip sentry apart, it was you and Id who said that Sentry would go straight through Superman. I ask again where is the proof?
By that logic how do you know that he wasn't tapping in the same source against Superman when he outright said that "Depart and you shall be spared".
Oh, he was fighting with his mind in it alright. There is no indication that he didn't want to fight superman. He even threatened to kill superman if he didn't depart.
It was all his own power untill Bendis retconned it. Void was nothing but a light construct of sentry's mind.
Because power levels obviously don't transfer that way. We've seen Pre-Crisis stories being referenced Post-Crisis, that doesn't mean that Post-Crisis = Pre-Crisis characters in power levels. History actually proves different, why don't you understand that? As a matter of fact, you yourself are well aware of this in another thread discussing Flash time traveling back to the CoIE:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,253051.msg4230364.html#msg4230364
The Mon-El feat is valid and is something I'm aware of. However, I have no idea why you think Superboy's feat has any reflection on Mon-E, and in turn Superman. Especially since you don't think even Beta Ray Bill's feats are valid for Thor.
I was just playing, but I do think he would wreck Superman apart in a fight and I think with his level of power, if he wanted to, he could easily outclass someone like Superman or even Hulk.
It says no hot-linking allowed man. Because there was an obvious visual indication as he powered up. But if you think he did so, that's your prerogative, my point is that you don't know. Exactly, he told Superman to leave and when he was contained, simply moved on.
It came from the source, but I remember them being specifically conflicting personalities. The Sentry was created to stop the Void's evil and vise versa, no?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because power levels obviously don't transfer that way. We've seen Pre-Crisis stories being referenced Post-Crisis, that doesn't mean that Post-Crisis = Pre-Crisis characters in power levels. History actually proves different, why don't you understand that? As a matter of fact, you yourself are well aware of this in another thread discussing Flash time traveling back to the CoIE:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,253051.msg4230364.html#msg4230364The Mon-El feat is valid and is something I'm aware of. However, I have no idea why you think Superboy's feat has any reflection on Mon-E, and in turn Superman. Especially since you don't think even Beta Ray Bill's feats are valid for Thor.
I was just playing, but I do think he would wreck Superman apart in a fight and I think with his level of power, if he wanted to, he could easily outclass someone like Superman or even Hulk.
It says no hot-linking allowed man. Because there was an obvious visual indication as he powered up. But if you think he did so, that's your prerogative, my point is that you don't know. Exactly, he told Superman to leave and when he was contained, simply moved on.
It came from the source, but I remember them being specifically conflicting personalities. The Sentry was created to stop the Void's evil and vise versa, no?
I'm not using that as a feat for Mon-El, it was more about the level Mon-El and Superboy who were peers more or less played at. Its like saying that Superman and Captain marvel are peers, so cap is at least stronger than wonder woman.
Uh-uh. He has no showing which suggests he can rip apart someone like superman apart from that outlier MM feat. All out superman is above high herald level in strength, he's a peer of HP Doomsday in that state.
I would post the thumbnails. While his energy powers were enough to contain superman, physically superman overpowered him. I can use him actually tearing apart soulfire Darkseid too, y'know.
That was the whole thing. Void wasn't a separate being like Bendis wrote, it was sentry's dark thoughts given form by his powers. Just like Oblivion and Kyle.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As a matter of fact, you yourself are well aware of this in another thread discussing Flash time traveling back to the CoIE:
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,253051.msg4230364.html#msg4230364
What a turn around a day makes huh?
😂
Originally posted by abhilegend
When those stories were referenced post-crisis, they were done by post-crisis characters. It was Byrne Superman who fought in COIE and who Flash lent his speed. Not in this case though where its a different timeline altogether and which was later explained by hypertime.I'm not using that as a feat for Mon-El, it was more about the level Mon-El and Superboy who were peers more or less played at. Its like saying that Superman and Captain marvel are peers, so cap is at least stronger than wonder woman.
Uh-uh. He has no showing which suggests he can rip apart someone like superman apart from that outlier MM feat. All out superman is above high herald level in strength, he's a peer of HP Doomsday in that state.
I would post the thumbnails. While his energy powers were enough to contain superman, physically superman overpowered him. I can use him actually tearing apart soulfire Darkseid too, y'know.
That was the whole thing. Void wasn't a separate being like Bendis wrote, it was sentry's dark thoughts given form by his powers. Just like Oblivion and Kyle.
Wow. Okay, agree to disagree.
Fair enough, but as we both know, there's always one who'll be bigger and better then the other.
Outlier? The fight with Molecule Man was Bendis' way of explaining his powers, it was built up for the entire Dark Avengers run. It's not like Thor/Superman punching above their paygrade and more like Hulk going World Breaker. A legit revelation of a power level. You do realize that Sentry at his best is as powerful as the Void right? He's just flat out on a different level then Superman.
Orion died in a large explosion which is what you used as a reference. Okay.
Void wasn't a separate being under Bendis either but was a personality part of Bob that become more dominant with Osborn's manipulations. Anyways, the two were independent enough that Sentry manhandling the Void is valid.
