Strongest foce user

Started by S_W_LeGenD12 pages

Originally posted by ares834
She didn't boost Luke until after he defeated Palpatine in the duel.

Here is what Leia said in the audidrama after Luke has bested Palpatine: "But we can Luke. We can do it. That's what the holocron meant. Let me add my power to yours."


Fair enough but the argument here is about alter abilities of the characters in question.

Sidious (DE) surpassed any mortal in power by a big margin. This doesn't implies that he could not be undermined in a duel with various talents.

Naw.

DE Sidious isn't all that.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate was a part-human, Sith pureblood, Sidious was a human as well. Qui Gon was one of thousands of Jedi to become an immortal Force ghost. Force spirits could only appear when permitted by the will of the Force (Chapter 2 of Heir to the Empire), but still mortality is a transcendental term in the Star Wars Universe.

Vitiate wasn't exactly a human or even part-human after his first major transformation. He possessed bodies of mortals much like Abeloth.

Vitiate did however prevent his original body from expiring via natural aging. He kept his original body young and stable throughout his span of existence.

Originally posted by Dolos
Anakin was a mortal, and when on Mortis he was able to overpower the combined might of Son and Daughter: and, by consequence, Abeloth as well.

I believe that The Father have something to do with this to discipline his siblings.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Naw.

DE Sidious isn't all that.


Do you think that Sidious (DE) depended upon Midichlorian count to function?

He had gone far beyond his natural potential by siphoning energies from populace of Byss. It is due to this enormous pool, he was able to summon Force Storms at will.

While death does seem to power up force users a bit, I don't think it's the kind of limits breaker that being a wound or doing Vitiate's trick did.

Luke, having stronger potential, still had stronger potential than Palps Reborn. Peak Luke > Any Palps.

👆

Originally posted by Q99
While death does seem to power up force users a bit, I don't think it's the kind of limits breaker that being a wound or doing Vitiate's trick did.

Luke, having stronger potential, still had stronger potential than Palps Reborn. Peak Luke > Any Palps.


Death doesn't makes a Force-user more powerful then his physical form.

Palpatine, upon loosing his original body on Death Star, became a mere shadow of his former-self in his "essence form" and wondered around in space to seek a host to possess but managed to do so with aid of several other Sith spirits. This whole process took 1 year, if I am not mistaken.

Once Palpatine acquired a suitable host and settled on Byss, it was during this time that he began to grow in power once again, eventually reaching a point that the entire populace of Byss would serve as his energy reserve. This whole process took additional 5 years, if I am not mistaken.

Therefore, I am not sure if one individual can match the energy reserves of billions of individuals.

Palpatine, as of DE, is vastly different from how Mr. Lucas have envisioned him in G-canon.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He had gone far beyond his natural potential by siphoning energies from populace of Byss. It is due to this enormous pool, he was able to summon Force Storms at will.
But also sealed the deal, his "weak flesh" could not house his spirit, as he put it. His midi-chlorians new this, and furthered the process started by Windu when the Jedi redirected the dark energies contained in his lightning back on him.
I believe that The Father have something to do with this to discipline his siblings.

No, the Father was trying to see if Anakin had enough potential to keep his children in line: because Father was on his death bed and could no longer control his children, each of which could sway the balance of the Force should they escape Mortis.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Death doesn't makes a Force-user more powerful then his physical form.

Palpatine, upon loosing his original body on Death Star, became a mere shadow of his former-self in his "essence form" and wondered around in space to seek a host to possess but managed to do so with aid of several other Sith spirits. This whole process took 1 year, if I am not mistaken.

Once Palpatine acquired a suitable host and settled on Byss, it was during this time that he began to grow in power once again, eventually reaching a point that the entire populace of Byss would serve as his energy reserve. This whole process took additional 5 years, if I am not mistaken.

Therefore, I am not sure if one individual can match the energy reserves of billions of individuals.

Palpatine, as of DE, is vastly different from how Mr. Lucas have envisioned him in G-canon.

Didn't Sidious only draw on Byss to improve his vitality?

Theres a comic where he's explaining it to Vader or something.....

Evasive Action: Recruitment.

Lol, Vader doesn't take negativity well.

"I hate you."

*choke* *weeze* *cough*

Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't Sidious only draw on Byss to improve his vitality?

Theres a comic where he's explaining it to Vader or something.....


Wasn't he aging? I think that he was experimenting with his powers on Byss prior to his resurrection.

By the time of DE, he was actively relying on such a vast pool to call upon the dark side of the Force in ways like he never had done before (or could do so).

Originally posted by Dolos
No, the Father was trying to see if Anakin had enough potential to keep his children in line: because Father was on his death bed and could no longer control his children, each of which could sway the balance of the Force should they escape Mortis.

If this is true then Abeloth is most likely far more powerful then either of them.

I think that we need to revisit our perception of Son and Daughter.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Lol, Vader doesn't take negativity well.

"I hate you."

*choke* *weeze* *cough*

lol

WTF.

Vitiate did however prevent his original body from expiring via natural aging. He kept his original body young and stable throughout his span of existence.

Incorrect, he needed to constantly transfer his essence into hosts like Abeloth, because his bodies could not meet the demands of his awesome power. Neither could Abeloth's.

The midi-chlorians are smart, they know when they're housing unnatural power, or being compelled by a foreign will (Darth Plagueis).

The only one capable of true immortality was Plagueis, by virtue of willing his midi-chlorians to undergo fission to replaced aged cells with new ones. Plagueis did admit that his midi-chlorian count had increased, and that his wounds had begun to heal and that he felt younger. He applied his scientific understanding to create a wholly new arcane ability in the dark side - another unnatural ability like Force drain, except it was better for achieving infinite longevity in a single body;

"The manuscript also included his Plagueis' on the Mortis legend, in which section Plagueis claimed that creating the Chosen One—not to save the Jedi but to be an extension of his will—would be a trivial matter once he had mastered the art of manipulating the midi-chlorians. The surviving manuscript concluded with Plagueis's interpretation of the Sith'ari prophecy as a description of his achievements, even though he rejected the concept of prophecy."

This suggests that he intended to gain more midi-chlorians than Anakin, and the powers he would gain would allow him to use very advanced Force abilities not yet featured by any human Sith in the EU except Abeloth:

"Darth Plagueis sought to understand the Force in a purely scientific context, doing away with the trappings of mysticism he believed the Jedi had corseted it with. He accepted the classification of the Force's aspects into three categories: the aperion (equivalent to the Unifying Force), the anima (equivalent to the Living Force), and the pneuma (conscious thought as expressed in the Force). His focus was midi-chlorians, which he believed benefited from a uniquely strong connection to all three aspects and could be used to master life and death. Apart from the extension and creation of life through midi-chlorians, Plagueis sought to explore such extreme and unusual applications as the direct manipulation of space-time and continuity of consciousness after death (going as far as to discuss the essence transference technique). He traveled to the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, seeking contact with long-dead Sith, but found none in the tomb of Hakagram Graush or on the throne of Sorzus Syn. As he boarded his ship to leave the planet, however, he had a vision of the admonishing spirit of Marka Ragnos. The long-dead Dark Lord challenged Plagueis' claim to the title, and railed against his plan to dismantle the traditions of Korriban, but offered no answers to any of the Muun's questions and inquiries."

Originally posted by Dolos
Incorrect, he needed to constantly transfer his essence into hosts like Abeloth, because his bodies could not meet the demands of his awesome power. Neither could Abeloth's.

He didn't need to do that. He chose to do that after Revan got within striking distance of him, as a way to further protect himself by operating only via proxies.

Also I think Plagueis says Vitiate got the closest to true immortality.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is true then Abeloth is most likely far more powerful then either of them.

Why, because Abeloth was dozens times more powerful than Luke Skywalker in FoTJ?

Yet Luke Skywalker was just powerful enough to harness a pool of light-side energy great enough to destroy Abeloth's host body despite her efforts to resist. Just like Anakin was just powerful enough to harness a pool of Mortis' energy great enough to overpower Son and Daughter despite their attempts to resist.

Plus, while the Force would remain exceptionally strong in Anakin's descendents, too many generations mingling with other, less Force sensitives, will eventually dilute the unnaturally high midi-chlorian of his children. Just like the Sith species. It is possible Anakin's midi-chlorian count was greater than Luke's, but it's possible they were the same as well.

Originally posted by Dolos
Incorrect, he needed to constantly transfer his essence into hosts like Abeloth, because his bodies could not meet the demands of his awesome power. Neither could Abeloth's.

The midi-chlorians are smart, they know when they're housing unnatural power, or being compelled by a foreign will (Darth Plagueis).


This may be the reason why Vitiate shifted between so many hosts during his span of existence but he also had unparalleled grasp of arcane talents/Sith Sorcery. With such mastery of the dark side, possibilities were endless for him.

Remember how Vitiate kept Scourge young and active for over 3 centuries?

Lord Scourge has dutifully served the Empire for over three hundred years, his life unnaturally prolonged by perverse technology and his master’s dark side powers.

In-fact, Vitiate didn't felt the need to possess hosts until he confronted the duo of Revan and Meetra and he have over 700 years of history prior to this encounter. Vitiate prevented his original body from expiring for a long long time and preserved it even after he began possessing hosts.

Originally posted by Dolos
The only one capable of true immortality was Plagueis, by virtue of willing his midi-chlorians to undergo fission to replaced aged cells with new ones. Plagueis did admit that his midi-chlorian count had increased, and that his wounds had begun to heal and that he felt younger. He applied his scientific understanding to create a wholly new arcane ability in the dark side - another unnatural ability like Force drain, except it was better for achieving infinite longevity in a single body;

"The manuscript also included his Plagueis' on the Mortis legend, in which section Plagueis claimed that creating the Chosen One—not to save the Jedi but to be an extension of his will—would be a trivial matter once he had mastered the art of manipulating the midi-chlorians. The surviving manuscript concluded with Plagueis's interpretation of the Sith'ari prophecy as a description of his achievements, even though he rejected the concept of prophecy."

This suggests that he intended to gain more midi-chlorians than Anakin, and the powers he would gain would allow him to use very advanced Force abilities not yet featured by any human Sith in the EU except Abeloth:

"Darth Plagueis sought to understand the Force in a purely scientific context, doing away with the trappings of mysticism he believed the Jedi had corseted it with. He accepted the classification of the Force's aspects into three categories: the aperion (equivalent to the Unifying Force), the anima (equivalent to the Living Force), and the pneuma (conscious thought as expressed in the Force). His focus was midi-chlorians, which he believed benefited from a uniquely strong connection to all three aspects and could be used to master life and death. Apart from the extension and creation of life through midi-chlorians, Plagueis sought to explore such extreme and unusual applications as the direct manipulation of space-time and continuity of consciousness after death (going as far as to discuss the essence transference technique). He traveled to the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, seeking contact with long-dead Sith, but found none in the tomb of Hakagram Graush or on the throne of Sorzus Syn. As he boarded his ship to leave the planet, however, he had a vision of the admonishing spirit of Marka Ragnos. The long-dead Dark Lord challenged Plagueis' claim to the title, and railed against his plan to dismantle the traditions of Korriban, but offered no answers to any of the Muun's questions and inquiries."


Actually it seems to me that Plagueis was in the process of learning what Vitiate had already accomplished long ago. However, Vitiate's knowledge went away with him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't need to do that. He chose to do that after Revan got within striking distance of him, as a way to further protect himself by operating only via proxies.

Well, then again Rell was a human who did live 300 years merely because she was so strong in the Force. Plagueis said that a strong life force does compel the midi-chlorians to sustain a host, as live creates the midi-chlorians.

We've never actually seen a Skywalker die from the aging process.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Actually it seems to me that Plagueis was in the process of learning what Vitiate had already accomplished long ago. However, Vitiate's knowledge went away with him.

No, manipulation of space is what Vitiate intended to accomplish after Force draining the galaxy. Plagueis didn't need Vitiate's complex rituals to grow stronger and increase his lifespan - he could do it without drawing attention, without the destruction of his body that Nihilus suffered - which I'd imagine would be a risk to Vitiate if he'd continued to go around Force draining planets as Nihilus did without taking care to perform long rituals involving others to aid him. A risk Sidious would be taking. Unlike Scourge who had to draw on his pain to merely stave aging, Plagueis' method would allow him to grow stronger in the Force as he staved aging.

Originally posted by Dolos
Why, because Abeloth was dozens times more powerful than Luke Skywalker in FoTJ?

Yes.

Originally posted by Dolos
Yet Luke Skywalker was just powerful enough to harness a pool of light-side energy great enough to destroy Abeloth's host body despite her efforts to resist. Just like Anakin was just powerful enough to harness a pool of Mortis' energy great enough to overpower Son and Daughter despite their attempts to resist.

Luke managed to destroy some hosts of Abeloth by using the surroundings to his advantage, breaking bones with debris/rubble and burning flesh with hot materials. Abeloth, for all her power, isn't very good at defending her hosts from external threats. She lacks in formal training so this might be the reason.

In contrast, Vitiate was very good at defending himself. He prevented T3-M4 from incinerating him with his grasp of defensive aspects of the Force even though he was caught off-guard by such an attempt on him. Heck, some Sith Lords serving him could tank even direct missile hits. I believe that Vitiate was virtually immune to most attacks.

Originally posted by Dolos
Plus, while the Force would remain exceptionally strong in Anakin's descendents, too many generations mingling with other, less Force sensitives, will eventually dilute the unnaturally high midi-chlorian of his children. Just like the Sith species. It is possible Anakin's midi-chlorian count was greater than Luke's, but it's possible they were the same as well.

Luke almost matched Anakin in potential, if I am not mistaken.

how did vitiate die? If I might ask out of ignorance?

HoT killed him. Although, I'm not sure why he can't just resurrect himself considering he knows the proper ability...