Grifter & Midnighter V.S. Deadpool & Wolverine

Started by OneDumbG06 pages

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Half a dozen examples, and the illegitimacy of them has all been explained to you many of times.
Yeah? Explain this next one I happened to come across. Yea. Another one I randomly came across where Wolverine literally claws his own brain on-panel:

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't disbelieve Midnighter can kick a tank shell back at a tank. I just don't think it had anything to do with strength because if it did it would have exploded, or speed, because he has never displayed that level of speed before or sense. It's something in the same vein as an Amadeus Cho calculation feat or something similar.
Amadeus Cho isn't drop-kicking a tank shell back into a tank. facepalm

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ She's a supercomputer that was specifically programmed to train and simulate danger scenarios. All her data is based on training sessions. Acting like her computer processes are interchangeable with Midnighter's when their base information isn't even the same is as ridiculous as suggesting that Sentinels' cpu's are the same as either Danger's or Midnighter's.

And even then, that'd get you as far as Danger stomping Wolverine half the time. This is your winning argument? Really?

She was created to kill and then caged actually. Her own words I believe. She's a sentient Shi'ar supercomputer computer combined with best earth tech can offer. You'd like to believe that for some reason Midnighter's runs better or more accurate scenarios, but you don't really have anything to base that off. According to Midnighter himself 5 winning scenarios his what he usually ends up with. Thats his average... 5 wins... and he runs a million/billion scenarios a second/minute (that all varies). Thats a lot of loses. I'd say he is coming up with a lot of trash if thats his batting average... especially considering he only fights no name Z List rip offs of established characters. Certainly nothing that gives me the impression that he runs better or more competent calculations than Danger.

Anyway I was just comparing the ability to run simulations not the characters. Danger is a much more powerful and versatile opponent than Midnighter is, and yet Wolverine has still manged beat her in combat.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah? Explain this next one I happened to come across. Yea. Another one I randomly came across where Wolverine literally claws his own brain on-panel:

Amadeus Cho isn't drop-kicking a tank shell back into a tank. facepalm

Jesus Christ, read the issue, Wolverine was suffering from techno-virus that was moving and altering his Adamantium, he didn't even have Adamantium covering his skull when he did that.

Of course not, Amadeus Cho has more class than that, he'd throw a quarter at the tank shell to redirected it.

^ Oh, so even though he had adamantium covering his bones in several areas, claws, spine, shoulder, etc. ... somehow... his skull must have been utterly bereft of adamantium to allow his claws to pass through. Even though that isn't even intimated at all on-panel. AT ALL. Predictable. Shall I update my montage?

Throwing a quarter to redirect a tank shell doesn't demonstrate Cho's physical capacity to headbutt it back at a tank. Please.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She was created to kill and then caged actually. Her own words I believe. She's a sentient Shi'ar supercomputer computer combined with best earth tech can offer. You'd like to believe that for some reason Midnighter's runs better or more accurate scenarios, but you don't really have anything to base that off. According to Midnighter himself 5 winning scenarios his what he usually ends up with. Thats his average... 5 wins... and he runs a million/billion scenarios a second/minute (that all varies). Thats a lot of loses. I'd say he is coming up with a lot of trash if thats his batting average... especially considering he only fights no name Z List rip offs of established characters. Certainly nothing that gives me the impression that he runs better or more competent calculations than Danger.

Anyway I was just comparing the ability to run simulations not the characters. Danger is a much more powerful and versatile opponent than Midnighter is, and yet Wolverine has still manged beat her in combat.

Except for the fact that Midnighter has run better simulations. Him processing 5 in 5 million scenarios isn't a failure of his battle cpu. It's just running through every inevitable scenario. Just because 5 of them lead to clear victory doesn't mean his battle cpu failed 4,999,995 times. He isn't trying to run purely win scenarios. He's running them all and picking out which ones win. Danger runs off a flawed base set data package. That was her very character. Compensating slightly and curbstomping Wolverine half the time means you're winning this argument how? Beast ripped her apart. Beast > Midnighter's battle cpu now?

Danger obviously can't do crap against opponents that she has no massive amounts of raw data to use. Clearly illustrated by Xavier outwitting her because Xavier never fought her. Yes. I've read Astonishing X-Men. And I know you have also.

Don't pretend this isn't a significant flaw of Danger's that pinpoints exactly why I am ridiculing your assertion that Danger's actually superior to Midnighter in this regard.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Oh, so even though he had adamantium covering his bones in several areas, claws, spine, shoulder, etc. ... somehow... his skull must have been utterly bereft of adamantium to allow his claws to pass through. Even though that isn't even intimated at all on-panel. AT ALL. Predictable. Shall I update my montage?

Throwing a quarter to redirect a tank shell doesn't demonstrate Cho's physical capacity to headbutt it back at a tank. Please. Except for the fact that Midnighter has run better simulations. Him processing 5 in 5 million scenarios isn't a failure of his battle cpu. It's just running through every inevitable scenario. Just because 5 of them lead to clear victory doesn't mean his battle cpu failed 4,999,995 times. He isn't trying to run purely win scenarios. He's running them all and picking out which ones win. Danger runs off a flawed base set data package. That was her very character. Compensating slightly and curbstomping Wolverine half the time means you're winning this argument how? Beast ripped her apart. Beast > Midnighter's battle cpu now?

Danger obviously can't do crap against opponents that she has no massive amounts of raw data to use. Clearly illustrated by Xavier outwitting her because Xavier never fought her. Yes. I've read Astonishing X-Men. And I know you have also.

Don't pretend this isn't a significant flaw of Danger's that pinpoints exactly why I am ridiculing your assertion that Danger's actually superior to Midnighter in this regard.

What did you think those little white ghost's moving black chunks labeled 'A' was supposed to represent?

Spoiler:
The 'A' stands for Adamantium

Cho doesn't need to head butt a tank shell. Anyway, the means are inconsequential, if Cho wanted to reflect that shell back, he'd do it with super math regardless of his strength or speed. Midnighter has never displayed anything remotely close to the type of strength or speed he would need to kick a tank shell back, which makes it pretty likely that it was a showcase of his battle computer calculations. But hey, maybe it isn't, maybe its just PIS, because its one or the other.

Only he hasn't run better simulations. He runs billions of scenarios, and comes out with 5 possible wins. That is horrible. That is less than a fraction of a percent, and that is just the average amount of wins. Sometimes he comes up short of that average, when he was surrounded by three SAS soldiers with guns trained on him he couldn't come up with single situation where he won. The guys he is fighting 99/100 aren't X-Men caliber or even close for that matter, they are nobody fodder that can't even hang with Swift.

What makes you think he is even going to be able to come up with one possible win scenario for either Wolverine or Deadpool? They are both leagues above the dredge he usually fights that he averages 5 wins for. Even if he comes up with one scenario where he wins, what makes you think he is going to have any luck stringing Deadpool along to fight the way he wants? Does that sound at all likely to you? I mean, sure its fine when you spend your days fighting nobody fodder, who are all eager to dance to whatever tune you play for them, but it is much less likely that either Wolverine or Deadpool will. I mean, the last time Midnighter fought Grifter it was a stalemate, so what? He can't get Grifter to dance to his tune, but he is going to get Wolverine and Deadpool to? Thats pretty absurd. Hawksmoor can melee (I said melee, I'm not talking about his other powers, which obviously would rage stomp Midnighter) with Midnighter, he doesn't have anywhere close to the speed, skill or damage soak Wolverine or Deadpool do... but for some reason Midnighter is going to dance around Wolverine and Deadpool without getting touched? Unlikely.

Danger made a 7% error in her calculations during her first fight with the X-Men which she adjusted and reconfigured on the spot. You are making that into a much larger deal than it ever was. As though her calculations which result in her winning more than not could possibly be more flawed than the calculations of a man who runs billions of scenarios to come up with 5 where he wins? Please.

Danger knows Wolverine inside and out, she knows everything he might do, she's seen it millions of times and like Midnighter she runs countless battle simulations while she is fighting, only hers are anchored to data she has compiled giving her much more precise and reliable results. At least as far as the X-Men are concerned Danger's simulations are much more effective than Midnighter would be, and Wolverine has dealt with Danger's, landed hits and even had the upper hand. He'd do the same to Midnighter.

Professor X had prep, he designed Danger, he rigged the battle field, and he had outside assistance.

I remember that Wolverine trade they were nanos removing and misplacing the Adamantium making it brittle.

LOL at OneDumbGo using that as an example.

forgot about deadpool being completely unpredictable, team 2 for the win

team 2 ftw in a straight out fight.

also not sure on prep it depends who hits the switch on whose bomb 1st..

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs39/f/2008/355/3/0/Deadpool_Wallpaper_by_martegodpopo.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What did you think those little white ghost's moving black chunks labeled 'A' was supposed to represent?
Spoiler:
The 'A' stands for Adamantium

Cho doesn't need to head butt a tank shell. Anyway, the means are inconsequential, if Cho wanted to reflect that shell back, he'd do it with super math regardless of his strength or speed. Midnighter has [b]never displayed anything remotely close to the type of strength or speed he would need to kick a tank shell back, which makes it pretty likely that it was a showcase of his battle computer calculations. But hey, maybe it isn't, maybe its just PIS, because its one or the other.[/b]

No kidding bits of adamantium were being pushed around. And his spine and claws are still covered in adamantium. You think somebody could have taken a sword across his back and split him in half? Try and not ignore that not only are his spine and claws and shoulder and other bones covered in adamantium, there is no evidence that his skull was completely adamantium-less. Wolverine stabbed himself in the brain. One of two times he stabs HIMSELF. Let alone all the other times he's been shot in the brain. Unless you're going to try to explain that as some regressive episode of nano-poisoning? lulz

Cho not needing to headbutt a tank shell =/= Cho being able to headbutt a shell physically using only precog =/= Midnighter being able to kick a tank shell using only precog. You're not operating from a level of comfort. I'm showing you a scan. It's there. As are the many times I've offered you proof and you unilaterally dismiss it as long as it suggests some deficiency in Wolverine somehow, i.e., he has a vulnerability or somebody has an advantage over him. Please.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Only he hasn't run better simulations. He runs billions of scenarios, and comes out with 5 possible wins. That is horrible. That is less than a fraction of a percent, and that is just the average amount of wins. Sometimes he comes up short of that average, when he was surrounded by three SAS soldiers with guns trained on him he couldn't come up with single situation where he won. The guys he is fighting 99/100 aren't X-Men caliber or even close for that matter, they are nobody fodder that can't even hang with Swift.
First of all, show me a single scan where Midnighter is fighting one on one and it's stated that he only has 5 ways out a billion to win. Second of all, 5 ways out of a billion is enough for him to take it 10/10 by using each method twice. You act like he's going to lose 999,999,995 times out of a billion battles. WHY WOULD HE EVER PICK A LOSING TACTIC IF HE CAN MANAGE TO PRODUCE ONE WINNING ONE?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What makes you think he is even going to be able to come up with one possible win scenario for either Wolverine or Deadpool? They are both leagues above the dredge he usually fights that he averages 5 wins for. Even if he comes up with one scenario where he wins, what makes you think he is going to have any luck stringing Deadpool along to fight the way he wants? Does that sound at all likely to you? I mean, sure its fine when you spend your days fighting nobody fodder, who are all eager to dance to whatever tune you play for them, but it is much less likely that either Wolverine or Deadpool will. I mean, the last time Midnighter fought Grifter it was a stalemate, so what? He can't get Grifter to dance to his tune, but he is going to get Wolverine and Deadpool to? Thats pretty absurd. Hawksmoor can melee (I said melee, I'm not talking about his other powers, which obviously would rage stomp Midnighter) with Midnighter, he doesn't have anywhere close to the speed, skill or damage soak Wolverine or Deadpool do... but for some reason Midnighter is going to dance around Wolverine and Deadpool without getting touched? Unlikely.
Yes, because out of a billion possible ways to fight Wolverine, he couldn't simply project a scenario where he upends his bo staff through Wolverine's jaw into his skull. Or spit his bullet-tooth through his eye socket. Or use consistent nerve-strikes and brain trauma to knock him out for 10 seconds. Or just whack Deadpool's head off his body. Apparently, the times when Wolverine and Deadpool lose a fight, that opponent went through a billion scenarios and was lucky to find just one. Yeah... that's exactly what happened ALL those times they lose a fight. Clearly.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Danger made a 7% error in her calculations during her first fight with the X-Men which she adjusted and reconfigured on the spot. You are making that into a much larger deal than it ever was. As though her calculations which result in her winning more than not could possibly be more flawed than the calculations of a man who runs billions of scenarios to come up with 5 where he wins? Please.

Danger knows Wolverine inside and out, she knows everything he might do, she's seen it millions of times and like Midnighter she runs countless battle simulations while she is fighting, only hers are anchored to data she has compiled giving her much more precise and reliable results. At least as far as the X-Men are concerned Danger's simulations are much more effective than Midnighter would be, and Wolverine has dealt with Danger's, landed hits and even had the upper hand. He'd do the same to Midnighter.

Professor X had prep, he designed Danger, he rigged the battle field, and he had outside assistance.

7% error which demonstrated how flawed her base data set was. Midnighter running scenarios and picking the ones we wants isn't the same type of percentages at all. They don't operate the same way anymore than a Sentinel uses his own supercomputer to fight X-Men and always manages to fail. Midnighter when he calculates a single winning scenario and executes it, is operating at 100% optimalization. Him finding 1 out of a billion and then executing it and winning, isn't him running at a .000000001% optimalization. It's 100% at that point. Christ.

Please. Anybody she hasn't fought, she can't calculate for. EXAMPLE: XAVIER. Because she's dependent on compiled data rfom training room sessions which is flawed in the first place. She couldn't even properly calculate with this immense flawed data against the X-Men without adjusting. So she got beat by Wolverine once, zomg! Wolverine must be able to beat supercomputers and easily surpasses Midnighter's battle cpu that doesn't operate at all in the same way! Guess what? She got stomped by Beast too. You think Beast surpasses Midnighter's battle cpu? You think Midnighter couldn't even begin computing scenarios against Xavier the way Danger couldn't? You'd be wrong. Your comparison was farcical. All it was good for was a laugh.

Midnighter would stomp DP in the ground.

and then get blown to bits because he didnt expect deadpool to pull the pins on multiple hand grenades

as much as i like to give the win to MN i just cant see him getting passed wilson and his shenanigans in mid battle.. like the grenade example you just mention..

MN is pretty crafty, though. He'd just use the door, if he gets too frustrated in trying to KO Wade.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
as much as i like to give the win to MN i just cant see him getting passed wilson and his shenanigans in mid battle.. like the grenade example you just mention..
We three just predicted he'd drop live grenades. We don't have supercomputers. Or are we now superior to Midnighter's battle cpu? Please.

we three have read deadpool comics and know about deadpools crazy antics... midnighter hasnt read deadpools comics, he doesnt kno what lengths deadpool will go to to get a win

yes we are.. we have 4th wall awareness which is basically cosmic awareness in the MU and far above MN's written ability by a writer..

uhh...

Yes. Clearly, Midnighter seeing grenades on Wade's bandolier could never predict that Wade might actually... use the grenades. Clearly.

😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
We three just predicted he'd drop live grenades. We don't have supercomputers. Or are we now superior to Midnighter's battle cpu? Please.

You are insane! Since when did Midnighter read a Deadpool comic book.

I'm now pretty certain that you are a bit funny in the head. I have never had to resort to personal bias before, but you are wierd.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Clearly, Midnighter seeing grenades on Wade's bandolier could never predict that Wade might actually... use the grenades. Clearly.

[Sarcasm]Yes Midnighter knows Wade has a healing factor! [Sarcasm]