Superman Vs Captain Marvel

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i usually agree superman would beat an average CM for a majority, but if you're saying his powers are better than CM's........

Superman's powers are better in getting him a win against CM. But CM's powers are better IMO because of IMMORTALITY. Other than potentially living forever I would rather have Superman's powers. I would like to see through walls (watch movies without paying), freeze stuff and heat stuff (cold soda or hot pizza), see microscopic diseases to help people, hear things across the world. I could find any terrorist with ease.

Now Superman can always sundip and be far beyond CM and probably live indefinitely as well, who knows.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, I was emphasizing it.

Again, a Cap from another universe lifted 'half of infinity', and only because the mainstream one wasn't available at the time. And its not like the mainstream one wasn't getting the equivalency spot carved out for him in the first place--even outside of comics such as in shorts like return of black adam and even the latest handbook stats, so there's no reason not to believe he could have done so if he could.

I know Superman is the hero, but that doesn't mean his actual stats are higher. He's just going to save the day because that's what he does.

Handbooks are crap. Cartoons are even more worthless to this discussion. What matters is feats. By feats Superman > Cap. Any other conclusion must be reached from ignorance or sentimentality rather than logic.

Lol so Superman's better feats don't count because "omg its just that he's the hero" Nice logic, bruh.

Basically it comes down to this.

Superman, when he's not facing Captain Marvel, has his moments where he goes above and beyond in over to save Metropolis/Earth/The Galaxy/Multiverse/what have you. When he's fighting Captain Marvel, he's explicitly shown to be portrayed as his equal and even goes forth to concede the fact that he views Cap to be his equal in every way. Was that Superman just being nice? To a point, sure, you can view it that way, but when compared to their encounters as a whole, it's accurate.

Superman holds back a lot. Yeah, we get that. So does Cap, and it's evidenced by every time he doesn't unload with direct magical attacks on Kal. Considering he typically draws or stalemates Superman without using the Shazam bolt or amped fists, it says a lot.

Basically it's either you feel they're equals based off of their numerous fights/scuffles/statements supporting the notion or feats outside of them fighting each other. *shrugs*

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman's powers are better in getting him a win against CM. But CM's powers are better IMO because of IMMORTALITY. Other than potentially living forever I would rather have Superman's powers. I would like to see through walls (watch movies without paying), freeze stuff and heat stuff (cold soda or hot pizza), see microscopic diseases to help people, hear things across the world. I could find any terrorist with ease.

Now Superman can always sundip and be far beyond CM and probably live indefinitely as well, who knows.

The hell?

Cap's not immortal. Even Shazam wasn't immortal.

"World's Mightiest Mortal" should clear all that up.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The hell?

Cap's not immortal. Even Shazam wasn't immortal.

"World's Mightiest Mortal" should clear all that up.

even with the ability to travel the cosmos, he can't do without (stolen) subscription tv?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The hell?

Cap's not immortal. Even Shazam wasn't immortal.

"World's Mightiest Mortal" should clear all that up.

Long lived might still sway me toward's wanting CM's powers instead of Superman's. But if the sun dip makes me long lived too then I would want Superman's powers.

Originally posted by h1a8
My fault I assumed he was immortal because of how old Black Adam is.
Black Adam hasn't aged in thousands of years. Is he long lived like Thor then?

Long lived might still sway me toward's wanting CM's powers instead of Superman's. But if the sun dip makes me long lived too then I would want Superman's powers.

In their empowered form, neither Captain Marvel or Black Adam age a whole lot...well outside of Billy going from teen to man. They have extended longevity, though. Shazam's old as hell, but he still ages and admits he's not immortal, that is, until he goes to New Genesis and ascends to godhood.

It all depends on what you want from life, ultimately. Superman's powers are the most varied and have the ability to increase over time, but there's a learning curve and the fact that you'd need incredibly self control physically and mentally to use them properly. With the Power of Shazam, the knowledge is all just there for you to use and you have enhanced intellect and clairvoyance as well as instant knowledge when it comes to a whole bunch of crap ranging from history, science, and the mystical thanks to the Wisdom of Solomon.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Alternate Captain Marvel could be stronger than mainstream Cap. 😛

Handbooks are crap. Cartoons are even more worthless to this discussion. What matters is feats. By feats Superman > Cap. Any other conclusion must be reached from ignorance or sentimentality rather than logic.

Lol so Superman's better feats don't count because "omg its just that he's the hero" Nice logic, bruh.

But of course, he isn't, seeing as the mainstream one is flat out stated and shown to be equal. 😛

The point of those other mediums is to simply bring more evidence of upper management/editorial mandates and intentions into focus. You believe Superman's stats are greater. DC's mandates would seem to disagree across the board. Handbooks aren't 'crap', they are secondary canon and not easily disposable. When one sees the likes of J'onn and Diana getting 16/20s for strength ratings compared to Superman's 19/20, and then seeing Cap, a guy who has far fewer post-crisis appearances than either J'onn or Diana also getting a 19/20, that makes a statement. And its also consistent with how they've been represented compared to Superman directly in comics.

No, sir, I would suggest not inserting words that were not used, this is a tactic of the weak. All of Superman's feats count, of course they do. Only, Cap is still equal. The point of the statement was not to nullify Superman's feats due to his status, but to highlight their respective positions. Superman is most certainly the greater, more prolific hero. Is he the more powerful in a fight though? Actual fights and statements--even internal characters statements, definitely nix that idea. The logic is the simple one being presented by the writer/character statements in conjunction with feats--fights are feats as well of course. There is no sentimentality being called upon, only referencing ideas that which have been printed on cold hard paper.

You aren't being very consistent might I add, we both know feats alone aren't everything, and established editorial hierarchy is just as important. You've mentioned as such to people like ZopZop who's stance is to go feat heavy almost exclusively.

So why the detour from that statement in this situation? Superman's upper stand-alone feats are most certainly greater, quantifiably probably quadrillions of times greater. But despite this, you don't actually believe Superman is a quadrillion times more powerful. I know you don't because that would require you to be an idiot quite frankly. If quantifiable feats are that important though, it would certainly not take Superman anymore than a flick of the finger to beat Cap. He would not have to dig down to even 1% of his capability.

And there's no way that's the case when the guy he's supposedly quadrillions of times more powerful than busts his nose on panel in one punch.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Basically it's either you feel they're equals based off of their numerous fights/scuffles/statements supporting the notion or feats outside of them fighting each other. *shrugs*

you believe they're mutually exclusive?

Originally posted by h1a8
I would like to see through walls (watch movies without paying),

If you want to use Superman's powers let alone X-ray vision to watch movies for free you're a lost cause...

Basing it off of fts, Nova Prime could pull a majority against Cap. Hell, basing it off of fts, Sentry would annihilate Cap.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Basically.

I think saying that because on an average day Cap and Supes are peers means that they must always be equal (and sillier still that we should give Cap the benefit of the doubt and assume he can match/duplicate all Superman's high end showings) is unfounded and wishful thinking from Cap fans.

Yup.

I really like Captain Marvel but this is just the reality of the situation. Don't get me wrong though, he's still a huge power house with more expansive powers than Superman. At least on average.

Originally posted by carver9
Basing it off of fts, Nova Prime could pull a majority against Cap. Hell, basing it off of fts, Sentry would annihilate Cap.

Not without Void. Cap actually has feats; he just hasn't as many as more popular characters.

Quality > quantity, though.

Considering Cap's arch nemesis manhandled an all out Superman when they met (Pre Isis powerup), and wasn't even trying to hit him, I think a case can be made Cap is on Supermans level..

He has quite a few feats of his own too, like surviving being turned inside out, and punking Martian Manhunter while under the control of the Grey Man (If we can use Eclipsed Supes as a "feat", we can use Grey Man controlled Cap.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Considering Cap's arch nemesis manhandled an all out Superman when they met (Pre Isis powerup), and wasn't even trying to hit him, I think a case can be made Cap is on Supermans level..

He has quite a few feats of his own too, like surviving being turned inside out, and punking Martian Manhunter while under the control of the Grey Man (If we can use Eclipsed Supes as a "feat", we can use Grey Man controlled Cap.)

You know during that arc where Cap was turned inside out it was stated that he was the only one of the heros that could have survived it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Because of comics in all honesty.

Superman's higher end feats are higher.

It's like Herc and Thor supposedly being physical equals.

Originally posted by h1a8
My fault I assumed he was immortal because of how old Black Adam is.
Black Adam hasn't aged in thousands of years. Is he long lived like Thor then?

Long lived might still sway me toward's wanting CM's powers instead of Superman's. But if the sun dip makes me long lived too then I would want Superman's powers.

the sundip is a powerful thing. But i think the idea that billys powers dirive from the ROE and shazam would or should i say could far out weigh a sundip. However i could be wrong we all saw at what DC did to billy when shazam died and billy gained shazams powers and added them to his. HE phucking sucked!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hercules holding up the heavens is probably greater than Thor lifting the Midgard Serpent.

IDK. Don't even know if he held up heavens (I think it said sky) and don't even know how much force was required since it was a magical thing with unknown acceleration and mass.

Weight is a force of Mass x Acceleration(of gravity).
Who knows what the acceleration the sky was falling at and what would have happened if Herc or Atlas would have let go.
In my mind, nothing would have happened if Herc let go.

But for the sake of argument both Atlas and Herc was holding something.
It's just that we can't prove that it was more or less than say 100,000 tons. Nor can we prove it was planetary (the weight of an Earth size planet).

The midgard Serpent feat might have been better, but you still have both the magical boat pulling and the Earth not even budging when Thor broke it's grip, so who knows. Thor's seem more incredible to me though.

Even if it was they sky, the sky has a mass of rougly 500 Quintillion Tons,

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Even if it was they sky, the sky has a mass of rougly 500 Quintillion Tons,

Also, Mass and Weight are two different things. In the absence of gravity (like in space with an unmovable floor) you could lift almost anything, including a 60ton tank (it would take a minute though) since there is no force to fight against.

So you should only use the word tons if the object is being pulled at the acceleration of 9.8m/s^2 (acceleration at the surface of the Earth). Most of the sky is not being pulled at that acceleration anyway. So the feat is even less than 5.5 quadrillion tons.