Red, i've kinda been with you in each of these books, it seems like Luke handles each situation with relative ease (Relative being a key modifier, they make sure to set circumstances against him in every scenario)
Gids doesn't think so, but that's the beauty of literature I guess.
(Did I just call Star Wars literature? ) I haven't read the massive spoiler above yet though, i hope to leave a little something to the reading.
Originally posted by Gideon
I would imagine that the authors are trying to make a [vague] analogy between the Galactic Alliance under Caedus and Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler; Hitler, even moreso than Caedus, was the [more or less] democratically elected and legitimate leader of Germany, yet intelligence agencies across the globe to this day hunt down ex-S.S. officers and Nazi colluders. It stems from the fact that Germany was an outlaw nation led by war criminals.Now I realize that the assassination of one man is a far cry from genocide, but in principle, it is similar: A leader [Caedus/Hitler] gives an underling [Tahiri/Random S.S. flunky] an order [kill Pellaeon/kill Jews]. It doesn't help matters that Daala was a known personal friend of Pellaeon and that he was pretty much universally respected.
To the eyes of many, Tahiri could have refused.
...yes and no. Caedus wasn't nearly as bad as Hitler. He had some brutal acts of destruction, like the whole "burn down Kashyyyk" thing, but he didn't perpetrate genocide and widespread mass killings the way Hitler did. Really, the only reason there was a war at all that required killing was because Corellia was being a b*tch the whole time for no apparent reason.
Personally, the whole Tahiri trial is just a result of Daala's lingering hatred of Jedi. Think about the size of the Galactic Alliance Military under Darth Caedus. Millions of sentient beings carrying out Caedus' will (i.e. what war criminal herself Daala views as war crimes) because it's their duty to do so, yet do we ever see them being put on trial? No. Hell, do we see high-up officers in the Galactic Alliance Guard (Caedus' Waffen-SS) on trial? Nope. Only ever Jedi, because Daala hates Jedi, and because Tahiri is/kind of is/was a Jedi.
RN
I just read the first one and (since I will be gone and will not have to deal with teh dramax I kick off) would like to note that I did not find Luke's handling of the Hidden One to resemble anything like a "struggle."
TJ
Gids doesn't think so, but that's the beauty of literature I guess.
Outcast, Luke vs. the Hidden One
It happened all at once: the Hidden One gesturing toward Luke, Ben leaping away, lightning flashing from the Hidden One’s hands. It was not the purplish lightning of Emperor Palpatine, which had so nearly cost Luke his life nearly forty years earlier; it was all brilliant whiteness.Luke had his lightsaber activated and up in time. The lightning crackled against his glowing blade. The strength of the attack, of the Hidden One’s energy and anger, took Luke off his feet and threw him backward. He slammed into a pillar, feeling jolts of pain in his spine and in the back of his head.
[...]
Luke gritted his teeth and rooted himself. Then, against the might of both wind and lightning, he took another step forward.
[...]
Luke took another step forward. It was slow going, for the Hidden One’s power was great, but Luke now felt sure in his footing and in his own strength.
[...]
Luke lunged at [the Force whirlwind], visualizing it, wrenching at it with the Force. His exertion was like a physical blow as he stepped into it. He felt the wind intensify for a bare moment, and then his telekinetic attack flung the whirlwind free.
He wasn't on the verge of death or anything, but unless I'm getting creative and adding n-canon sentences or somehow twisting what happened through bolding and underlining, the Hidden One a.) caused Luke physical pain, b.) successfully impeded Luke's encroach, and c.) summoned manifestations of the Force that required Luke's exertion to defeat.
And that's after Luke knew the attack was coming.
How is that not a struggle?
I guess, I just didn't consider him pushed to his limits or anything by it I suppose. Makes me curious how they always go on and on to the extent of the power of all the foes he has been meeting recently. They realized they deus ex machina'd him, and the only way to fix it is to try to insinuate that he is running into the most dangerous opponents of his life now.
But really, with the ability to hide in the force AND cloak himself from the naked eye, every fight he is in really should end with a lightsaber blade out of nowhere killing the opponent. Anything else is just arrogant foolishness on his part.
Btw, I'm not sure anyone noticed any errors in this book, but I noticed two.
1. The author kept spelling it "Kyp Durran", not Durron.
2. The author claimed Callista fought in the clone wars, which isn't accurate at all. She was Luke's age and I believe she participated in the Galactic Civil War, but that's about it.
Originally posted by Gideon
He wasn't on the verge of death or anything, but unless I'm getting creative and adding n-canon sentences or somehow twisting what happened through bolding and underlining, the Hidden One a.) caused Luke physical pain, b.) successfully impeded Luke's encroach, and c.) summoned manifestations of the Force that required Luke's exertion to defeat.And that's after Luke knew the attack was coming.
How is that not a struggle?
Luke = arguably has the most feats of any other characters. Hidden One = virtual unknown. Because of this, it would make more sense to use the fight as a benchmark to place the Hidden One in relation to Luke rather than the other way around.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Luke = arguably has the most feats of any other characters. Hidden One = virtual unknown. Because of this, it would make more sense to use the fight as a benchmark to place the Hidden One in relation to Luke rather than the other way around.
Eh most feats doesn't mean greatest, ANYWHERE. The only argument one can use is that Luke had absolutely no intention to hurt The Hidden One.
Ya, I'm not suggesting that Luke was intending to unleash lethal force, but there is no doubt that he was trying to stop the Hidden One and when you take into account that Ben was in immediate danger, there is no question that Luke would have killed him if necessary. Unless Luke has no regard for his son, I'd say he went into that fight with the same level of restraint that Mace Windu did with Palpatine.
By the way, Callista was a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars; she's got a lot of years on Luke.
Originally posted by Gideon
Ya, I'm not suggesting that Luke was intending to unleash lethal force, but there is no doubt that he was trying to stop the Hidden One and when you take into account that Ben was in immediate danger, there is no question that Luke would have killed him if necessary. Unless Luke has no regard for his son, [b]I'd say he went into that fight with the same level of restraint that Mace Windu did with Palpatine.By the way, Callista was a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars; she's got a lot of years on Luke. [/B]
This is at best debatable, and at worse nonsense Gideon. I wouldn't ever compare that situation to Mace's situation. You're going to have to do better than that.
And Callista fought in the Clone Wars? Really? That means she's what, 30 years older than Luke? You're telling me she was 50-60 when Luke was banging her?
DS
This is at best debatable, and at worse nonsense Gideon. I wouldn't ever compare that situation to Mace's situation. You're going to have to do better than that.
Me: I'm not saying Luke was looking to kill the guy, but he was certainly looking to stop him, after all, his son was in danger.
You: no.
Come back with something like that again, DS, and we'll have to go through all the tedious bullshit we do every other time you come in swinging; you're already two strikes down.
DS
And Callista fought in the Clone Wars? Really? That means she's what, 30 years older than Luke? You're telling me she was 50-60 when Luke was banging her?
She transferred her essence into the Eye of Palpatine's databanks and took a new body when Luke found her.
In the trial, I think the defense will use the same old excuse that all war criminals use - "I was just following orders." But in Tahiri's case, she was under the influence of an extremely powerful Sith Lord. Although the assassination was committed not in wartime, Ben did the same and he wasn't arrested and prosecuted.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
In the trial, I think the defense will use the same old excuse that all war criminals use - "I was just following orders." But in Tahiri's case, she was under the influence of an extremely powerful Sith Lord. Although the assassination was committed not in wartime, Ben did the same and he wasn't arrested and prosecuted.
Right. Tahiri shouldn't be persecuted because it was the GA government (well, Caedus, who is part of it) that ordered her to do it, and for the GA gov't to persecute her for it when it was they that ordered her is just ridiculous.
Oh, and they wouldn't want to persecute Ben because A) he's just 16 and only 14 at the time and B) Daala doesn't want to get killed by Luke.
Originally posted by Gideon
Me: I'm not saying Luke was looking to kill the guy, but he was certainly looking to stop him, after all, his son was in danger.You: no.
Come back with something like that again, DS, and we'll have to go through all the tedious bullshit we do every other time you come in swinging; you're already two strikes down.
It was more like
You: He wasn't looking to kill the guy, just to stop him because he thought his son was in danger. This is very similar to the Mace Windu situation.
Me: While I agree that he was looking to stop The One, it is nowhere comparable to the Windu/Palpatine situation.
You: Yes huh, sarcasm-snooty comment-sarcasm.
You really need to get a clue Gideon. Making a ridiculous comparison and then claiming it' fact with nothing other than Nai-like sarcasm doesn't make your post anymore truthful or valid.
She transferred her essence into the Eye of Palpatine's databanks and took a new body when Luke found her. [/B]
So? what does it have to do with the Clone Wars? I asked for her background regarding the Clone Wars. In fact, I thought Luke fell in love with her before the Eye of Palpatine incident. I'll have to consult Jedi vs. Sith.
DS
You: This is [b]very similar to the Mace Windu situation.[/b]
Me
Unless Luke has no regard for his son, I'd say he went into that fight with the same level of restraint that Mace Windu did with Palpatine.
^ Bullshit, this is what I said; you're a liar.
DS
Me: While I agree that he was looking to stop The One, it is nowhere comparable to the Windu/Palpatine situation.
Bullshit. Windu went into that fight with the intent to arrest Palpatine, to stop him. He only made his decision to kill after he realized that Palpatine had control of the courts and the Senate. Hence why I said that I'd say Luke went in there with a similar level of restraint: stop first, kill if necessary.
DS
You: Yes huh, sarcasm-snooty comment-sarcasm.You really need to get a clue Gideon. Making a ridiculous comparison and then claiming it' fact with nothing other than Nai-like sarcasm doesn't make your post anymore truthful or valid.
This isn't sarcasm. You, like the other times we've got heated, read into shit that wasn't there. And now you've lied to cover your ass. I told you that there won't be a third time. You can concede, make a respectful argument, or STFU.
DS
So? what does it have to do with the Clone Wars? I asked for her background regarding the Clone Wars. In fact, I thought Luke fell in love with her [b]before the Eye of Palpatine incident. I'll have to consult Jedi vs. Sith. [/B]
...
You said she was 60 or so when Luke was banging her; I explained what happened: she transferred her essence into the Eye of Palpatine and then found a new body when Luke found her.
Edit: I expect an apology for your bullshit little attitude and, with it, a valid argument or a concession.