Oil spill continues to grow

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
At the moment there is a company working on designs for 100+ MW nuclear fission generators about the size of standard door and a less than a meter deep. They plan to sell bundles by 2012 and single units by 2015, I think. Someone could come up with a way to do fusion on the same scale (hopefully it won't take 50+ years).

ITER already is (if they get the thing to work) the smallest fusion reactor possible, if you would turn the thing smaller the process just can't go without putting more energy into it than you could draw from it.

Originally posted by inimalist
interesting...

What do they plan to do with the waste though?

Collect it every ten years or so. They say it can be used for nuclear recycling like in France.

Originally posted by inimalist
because they would now be the primary source of power in vehicles than a secondary source. They would have to hold a much bigger charge.

Its like why electric battery cars aren't really an ecological replacement to gas powered ones.

I see, that's a good point. However it doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit from fusion power, only that its applications would be just as limited as electricity is today.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That's most unlikely.

ITER already is (if they get the thing to work) the smallest fusion reactor possible, if you would turn the thing smaller the process just can't go without putting more energy into it than you could draw from it.

Is that a fundamental limit or a practical limit? Because practical limitations get bypassed with some frequency.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Is that a fundamental limit or a practical limit? Because practical limitations get bypassed with some frequency.

Nikola Tesla

he proved that electricity could be transmitted through the air without wires.. we can also use the earth's atmosphere to do it now.. the only reason it didnt become commercial is due to creed and inability to regulate it so the man who funded him pulled out on him b/c he realized even then that it would replace oil which the man happen to be heavily involved in..

also like to point out now with all the stuff we have everywhere probably not be a good idea to broadcast electricity through the air.. but imagine if that was our power source foundation instead of electricity how much different our society would have bn..

anyways this who thing about how much it would cost for infrastructure is a poor excuse to not do it.. how many roads, rail roads powerlines, channels and every conceivable infrastructure were made in the name of progress even though it cost millions if not billions to build within a 100 yr period all for progress if not then then for us in the now..in the long run its worth it...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
anyways this who thing about how much it would cost for infrastructure is a poor excuse to not do it.. how many roads, rail roads powerlines, channels and every conceivable infrastructure were made in the name of progress even though it cost millions if not billions to build within a 100 yr period all for progress if not then then for us in the now..in the long run its worth it...

How about it costing trillions? Yeah, that much.

Also, what inimalist said about the infrastructure cost is mostly true, but not completely (his point should not be faulted for his one exception that I'm thinking about...as he is absolutely correct in what he is saying with ony a few excetions). It would cost about $14 billion dollars to put a hydrogen fueling station, on average, every 2 miles, of all highways and major roads. The math has been done, the technology made. That cost is only as much as some of the pure profits from Exxon Mobile in one QUARTER!

I've posted on this, before, in the GDF. I could revive that post and put that shit, here.

I think I am gonna lay off seafood for a while.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I think I am gonna lay off seafood for a while.

And continuing contributing to the unemployment problems? How dare you.

(For you dodo heads, the joke is "lay off".)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, what inimalist said about the infrastructure cost is mostly true, but not completely (his point should not be faulted for his one exception that I'm thinking about...as he is absolutely correct in what he is saying with ony a few excetions). It would cost about $14 billion dollars to put a hydrogen fueling station, on average, every 2 miles, of all highways and major roads. The math has been done, the technology made. That cost is only as much as some of the pure profits from Exxon Mobile in one QUARTER!

I've posted on this, before, in the GDF. I could revive that post and put that shit, here.

The problem with hydrogen is that there isn't much hydrogen just lying around to collect and getting it out of water takes a lot power.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Nikola Tesla

he proved that electricity could be transmitted through the air without wires.. we can also use the earth's atmosphere to do it now.. the only reason it didnt become commercial is due to creed and inability to regulate it so the man who funded him pulled out on him b/c he realized even then that it would replace oil which the man happen to be heavily involved in..

The main reason his method didn't become commercial was because it's so incredibly difficult, energy intensive and short range. Cheap wireless energy transfer would be very valuable to anyone who develops and is being studied by many groups; to date the world record for beamed power (worth 900 thousand dollars) was to send 1kW a few hundred meters.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And continuing contributing to the unemployment problems? How dare you.

(For you dodo heads, the joke is "lay off".)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The problem with hydrogen is that there isn't much hydrogen just lying around to collect and getting it out of water takes a lot power.

The main reason his method didn't become commercial was because it's so incredibly difficult, energy intensive and short range. Cheap wireless energy transfer would be very valuable to anyone who develops and is being studied by many groups; to date the world record for beamed power (worth 900 thousand dollars) was to send 1kW a few hundred meters.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The problem with hydrogen is that there isn't much hydrogen just lying around to collect and getting it out of water takes a lot power.

That's already been addressed like...a decade ago.

And, no, hydrogen is literally 75% of the universe's elemental mass: it's everywhere. 🙂

Besides, the method was those vending machine sized systems that use plain old freshwater, some electrolysis, and badda-boom: O2 and H2.

Did you know that there are working hydrogen "stations" that work from solar power?

Also, there are tons of hydrogen fueling stations all over the world.

The idea that it takes a lot of power (to the point of infeasibility) is a myth perpetuated by the opposition to alternative fuels.

Pretty soon, here, we will have hydrogen fueling stations in our own home, for a mere $500, run completely by solar power. 🙂

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/02/01/8398988/index.htm

Isn't that awesome? We could literally have a fueling station in every home of America. That has GOT to have the oil companies shitting themselves. Wait, it's not, because we lived in a ****ed up world.

i think we should pass some type of housing law or standard for new constructions and homes.. with at least having sun panels and a electrical port for future possible alternatives like windmills..

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's already been addressed like...a decade ago.

And, no, hydrogen is literally 75% of the universe's elemental mass: it's everywhere. 🙂

But its elemental form is incredibly rare on Earth 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pretty soon, here, we will have hydrogen fueling stations in our own home, for a mere $500, run completely by solar power. 🙂

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/02/01/8398988/index.htm

Isn't that awesome? We could literally have a fueling station in every home of America. That has GOT to have the oil companies shitting themselves. Wait, it's not, because we lived in a ****ed up world.

Hey now, that's pretty neat.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But its elemental form is incredibly rare on Earth 🙂

Pure H2, sure. But it's not hard to obtain. I thought we were just talking about H, period.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hey now, that's pretty neat.

Indeed. I wonder why the employees of entire company have not turned up, completely dead and all facilities burned to the ground? AHA! Oil companies are not that evil...

well looks like the "top kill" didn´t work, time to nuke that hole!!!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Collect it every ten years or so. They say it can be used for nuclear recycling like in France.

cool. Canada's CANDU reactors can also used recycled nuclear materials, iirc...

what about security though? I know nuclear waste isn't the most ideal material for weaponization, but if it becomes so ubiquetous, it might pose realt security threats. Also, potential nuclear failures? I know modern reactors are built with fail-safes, but I don't trust humans to be 100% accurate on that stuff.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I see, that's a good point. However it doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit from fusion power, only that its applications would be just as limited as electricity is today.

I'm not saying we wouldn't benefit

my position is more that, look, oil ****ing rocks, as far as efficancy in terms of use and how little it costs to use it, we, as a society, are going to have to put a huge amount of time and effort into changing to something, and it is likely whatever we switch to is going to pose at least as great of a problem. Whether this problem is in the polution generated in the production/destruction of this medium, its inefficency compared to gas, or just the fundamental costs associated with it, it still will be there.

I'm basically just arguing against panaceas

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pure H2, sure. But it's not hard to obtain. I thought we were just talking about H, period.

yes, but then the problem is we have changed from gas to oceans and water as our primary fuel source. It would be very difficult to use hydrogen as a fuel without disrupting the water cycle.

Not immediatly, mind you, but humans have a tendency to get comfortable with stuff, and only change when it is problematic.

actually... we might be talking about very different things here... Are you talking about vehicles that, themselves, use hydrogen as fuel, or are you talking about cars that have a bettery which is charged at a station where hydrogen fusion is occuring. The former, while probably the most ideal, afaik, is really science fiction at this point. Modern fusion ideas, that I'm familiar with at least, pose the latter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pretty soon, here, we will have hydrogen fueling stations in our own home, for a mere $500, run completely by solar power. 🙂

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/02/01/8398988/index.htm

you don't deny the excessive environmental costs associated with the production of solar pannels though, right?

Originally posted by Bicnarok
well looks like the "top kill" didn´t work, time to nuke that hole!!!

That's a good thing. Let the oil flow...

Originally posted by inimalist
you don't deny the excessive environmental costs associated with the production of solar pannels though, right?

There's nothing excessive about it.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
well looks like the "top kill" didn´t work, time to nuke that hole!!!

As Bill Maher said in a recent showing, time to call in Bruce Willis, or something like that.