Harry Potter Magic versus the Force (Army thread).....

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You already tried this angle. I already buried it. This is HPgalaxy, not SWgalaxy. The force does not bind HPgalaxy together. Even if it did, so? How does that affect anything? It doesn't. It's a nifty catch phrase, it sounds good in the Jedi recruitment video, that's all.

So the force binds the SWgalaxy together, big effing deal. It didn't keep all those Jedi from dying on Geonosis (a battle which the Death Eaters would WTF solo, BTW), it wouldn't help the Jedi against the Skyline fleet (a battle which again, the Death Eaters would WTF rape BTW), it won't help the Jedi to avoid being confundused, it won't keep the Jedi from being Imperioed, it won't enable the Jedi to fly, it won't enable the Jedi to teleport, it won't enable the Jedi to become mere puffs of smoke, it won't enable the Jedi to vanish, conjure and/or summon anything they want, it won't enable the Jedi to change someone into a teacup, it won't enable the Jedi th cast a shield that protects them from any and all physical attacks, it won't.......well, you get the idea.

Force powers are in play here. The Jedi can force pull, force push, force speed, force pull, force hold, and some can force choke, force lightning and force crush. They also have their flimsy ass precog and their lightabers. That's it, and only as much as they did onscreen. That's it.

"The force binds the galaxy together", so what?

Hermione Granger, thousands of feet away, on the roof of a high rise, protected by a protego. Outside the protego, a Repello Muggletum. Outside that, the OOTP members. The building is surrounded by a repello muggletum. The Jedi cannot near it, it's literally impossible. Confundus. Then Immobulus. Jedi mannequins. Death spell.

That's it. Concede.

You have to prove that the force isnt in all galaxies.

Nah Yoda and Vader and other high end see-ers arent failing here.

Most wizards killed in the ensuing attack,
Orbital strike and sub orbital craft that the Sith or Jedi command above clouds taking out stragglers..

The end.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You have to prove that the force isnt in all galaxies.

Nah Yoda and Vader and other high end see-ers arent failing here.

Most wizards killed in the ensuing attack,
Orbital strike and sub orbital craft that the Sith or Jedi command above clouds taking out stragglers..

The end.

The OP:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

EACH COMBATANT CAN USE ONLY WHAT POWERS THEY ARE SHOWN USING IN THEIR MOVIES.

Powers, dude. Abiities. I never, not once, said they have all their gear. Star Destroyers and Death Stars are not powers/abilities, they are GEAR.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. I also agree with you that giving the Jedi Star Destroyers etc is total bullshit. A spaceship is not a piece of equipment.

Mhm, to Neph you listen........ 😄

Gear is what Potion making glasswear, books, Wands and Brooms are. 🙂

Nope Not "Just cause", in fact its because the only times at which they failed is when the shift of the force from light to dark (or vice versa) went against the Sith Or the Jedi.

And EVEN THEN neither side were completely blinded.
Evidence, Palpatine still being connected enough to achieve all up to ROTJ... Yoda still being connected enough forsee and thwart the assasination attempt by the clone troopers et al. to watch luke from afar, etc in dark times.

But since this is no "SW only" thread, for the sake of fairness, we assume that the force is at a neutral point in the swing. 🙂

That is all fair reasoning, you will find.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ah my apologys.

Well that assumes that the "magic" would have an effect on the Jedi's minds in a force governed situation again.

Also, Jedi are taught to clear their minds and let the force guide their actions. So they could still forget everything in their conscious mind and let go and pwn.

The weak minded wizards would be susceptible to jedi force mind attacks and mind reading. However, none of the Jedi have any defense against the telepathy from the wizards because none of them are magical and cannot construct a magical defense against the attacks.

That means that the stupid kids would be affected but the more powerful adults would not.

Unless you want to claim that magic and the force are synonymous? If so, I disagree because that's very insulting to the force. 😆

Originally posted by Creshosk
I recognize the wording in dadudemon's post as the anti-muggle charm.

Correct. 🙂 👆 I figured that there was no reason to throw jargon around because Sadako probably knew what I was talking about from his many hours spent arguing with RJ. lol

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Gear is what Potion making glasswear, books, Wands and Brooms are. 🙂

Nope Not "Just cause", in fact its because the only times at which they failed is when the shift of the force from light to dark (or vice versa) went against the Sith Or the Jedi.

And EVEN THEN neither side were completely blinded.
Evidence, Palpatine still being connected enough to achieve all up to ROTJ... Yoda still being connected enough forsee and thwart the assasination attempt by the clone troopers et al. to watch luke from afar, etc in dark times.

But since this is no "SW only" thread, for the sake of fairness, we assume that the force is at a neutral point in the swing. 🙂

That is all fair reasoning, you will find.

K. Still, Powers, dude. Abiities. Star Destroyers and Death Stars are not powers/abilities, they are GEAR.

Wizards, their wands and their magical abilities.

Jedi, their lightsabers and their force abilities.

Even playing field. A true test as to who is better.

That's it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You have to prove that the force isnt in all galaxies.

He has to prove that just as much as you have to prove that it IS in all galaxies.

Seeing as RJ's only reference is when Yoda said "binds the galaxy together"*, he's more correct than you, at the moment.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Most wizards killed in the ensuing attack,
Orbital strike and sub orbital craft that the Sith or Jedi command above clouds taking out stragglers..

The end.

Wait a minute: you just ignored what I had told you about this, yesterday. None of that can take place.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Gear is what Potion making glasswear, books, Wands and Brooms are. 🙂

Here's the catch 22: the wizards can conjure and accio just about any gear they want.

If you want to call that an unfair gear advantage, you can: I won't argue with that. However, those are basic powers of the wizards.

*Episode 5

Originally posted by dadudemon
He has to prove that just as much as you have to prove that it IS in all galaxies.

Seeing as RJ's only reference is when Yoda said "binds the galaxy together"*, he's more correct than you, at the moment.

My proof be that if the Jedi and Sith have use of their abilities, the force MUST be present in the galaxy arena to be a thread.

The evidence presented by common sense.

Or is this the entirely "Hahahaah Hogawrts win, when you strip the opposing force of all screenfeated attributes and basic givens" thread I thought it was..?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
My proof be that if the Jedi and Sith have use of their abilities, the force MUST be present in the galaxy arena to be a thread.

The evidence presented by common sense.

I dont read them.

Id guess though that most of the time, if its IN the Matrix then Neo Pwns.
But if outside, mehhhh could be the other guy's fight.
Cause if Neo controls the Matrix, his opponent whilst in the matrix, is fu*ked, as far as I see it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont read them.

Id guess though that most of the time, if its IN the Matrix then Neo Pwns.
But if outside, mehhhh could be the other guy's fight.
Cause if Neo controls the Matrix, his opponent whilst in the matrix, is fu*ked, as far as I see it.

If the fight is in the Matrix, how'd the opponent get in?

If the fight is outside the Matrix, how does Neo retain his powers?

Oh I gotcha.... They have to be wired into it, hardwire style.

I would be skeptical that he would...although its been forever since I watched those movies, I seem to remember him stopping squiddys in the outside world by holding out his hand... am I right..?

If thats the case, a part of his brain must've still been connected somehow to the matrix mainframe or whatever, in order to have that controlling mechanism over them. 'Cause him stopping them physically almost"Using the force" wouldn't be plausible in that scenario..

If the fight is in the future, then the Matrix could maybe run a perfect simulation of that character, maybe. 🙂

Nope. All MVF fights, no matter where they occur, the combatant retains his/her powers. If Neo is fighting YuLaw in nakatomi plaza, outside the Matrix, he still has his powers.

So the force does not need to bind the galaxy here for the Jedi to have their powers.

Get it?

Okay I accept that.

But to automatically then assume that Potter's parlour tricks are gonna pwn the force, despite the force being all permeating and way more powerful than a death star in its microcosmic and and macroscosmic immensities, if just silly.

It's not about magic pwning the force, it's about who had more impressive and powerful feats using them.

Any fool can see that no Jedi, ever, not one, onscreen, ever came close to harnessing the force to it's full potential.

It's like pouring motor oil into a blocked funnel. The motor oil is gonna spill over the edges and onto the ground.

True that weve never seen them unlock its full potential, but weve seen:

* People being BORN from it.

* People using it to help them destroy a Death Star.

* People sensing past present and future events through it.

* Kenobi sensing the deaths of people half a galaxy away from him, through it

* Vader using it to crush entire rooms, peoples throats with it at controlled pace, often from kilometers away across a Super destroyer

* Testimony to it binding all matter and energy in the galaxy/universe as far as we know, together.

* Ability to alter the fates of characters/guide them through impossible odds

* Ability to merge with a force user resulting in their luminous being state being able to get involved in events that their living contacts take part in. (Advising luke on tactical withdrawals on the Death Star even seconds after he sacrificed himself "Run Luke.. Run!!" and making Luke turn off his targeting computer and having Luke use the force to guide him on that Proton Torpedo shot.

* Ability to use TK with such force as to rip buildings apart and rip heavy pods clean away from their durasteel mountings, and propelling mutiple pods hundreds of feet through the aim, aiming at a target.
(A feat that would guarantee instant decap of opponents, if applied to a head, or neck , in a moralsless, ungimped, R rated encounter)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
True that weve never seen them unlock its full potential, but weve seen:

* People being BORN from it.

* People using it to help them destroy a Death Star.

* People sensing past present and future events through it.

* Kenobi sensing the deaths of people half a galaxy away from him, through it

magic kept Harry from being killed by a death curse.

Harry used it to defeat....well, pretty much everything.

A wizard can become immortal with magic.

* Vader using it to crush entire rooms, peoples throats with it at controlled pace, often from kilometers away across a Super destroyer

* Testimony to it binding all matter and energy in the galaxy/universe as far as we know, together.

* Ability to alter the fates of characters/guide them through impossible odds

* Ability to merge with a force user resulting in their luminous being state being able to get involved in events that their living contacts take part in. (Advising luke on tactical withdrawals on the Death Star even seconds after he sacrificed himself "Run Luke.. Run!!" and making Luke turn off his targeting computer and having Luke use the force to guide him on that Proton Torpedo shot.

* Ability to use TK with such force as to rip buildings apart and rip heavy pods clean away from their durasteel mountings, and propelling mutiple pods hundreds of feet through the aim, aiming at a target.

No buildings were ever ripped apart.

Vader clearly controls the rate at which he chokes people. 🙂
Obvious and cannot be distorted.

That room was TRASHED that vader wrecked, and if that was like a shed, the buildng was trashed. Plus the ability Dooku demonstrated to pull down ceilings was convincing.

Even so, that kind of force snaps necks like dry twigs.
Mounts or no.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Vader clearly controls the rate at which he chokes people. 🙂
Obvious and cannot be distorted.

Thought so. NEVER instant.

That room was TRASHED that vader wrecked, and if that was like a shed, the buildng was trashed. Plus the ability Dooku demonstrated to pull down ceilings was convincing.

Even so, that kind of force snaps necks like dry twigs.
Mounts or no.

Dude He was exerting force with control.
You're failing at trying to misrepresent what was clearly occurring.

Neither do wizard necks. 🙂