Kubik vs. Exitar

Originally posted by Galan007
^ So I'll ask you then: where is the line drawn between unproven statements and on panel feats? I mean, if you are agreeing with Kubik's statement that Celestials are FAR more powerful than he, then you must also agree with Spidey's comment that Sentry stalemated Galactus. Both are completely baseless and unproven, after all.

...Or are we to pick and choose which statements we believe, and which ones we don't..?

😂

Originally posted by Galan007
Double-standards, ftw!

You have to draw the line somewhere, I draw the line at the person who makes the claim and whether he can be seen as being a valid source given his history within the given comic universe. Personally I think many would have wondered but only a few would have doubted that Sentry stalemated Galactus if it was Reed Richards that had made the claim because he has a tendency to be correct in the statements he gives. But thing is that is wasn't Reed Richards, it was Spiderman given a statement under unknown circumstances about a incident we can't even be sure he saw with his own eyes.

The Example (again) that have been used throughout this entire debat (Kubik and The Unnamed Celestial) is from the above criteria not perfect given that we actually see the Celestial "overpower" Kubik. The Sentry Galactus example is better in my opinion.

@Utrigita

Why does it look like galactus has swords in your sig?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
@Utrigita

Why does it look like galactus has swords in your sig?

No idea.

Originally posted by Utrigita
You have to draw the line somewhere, I draw the line at the person who makes the claim and whether he can be seen as being a valid source given his history within the given comic universe. Personally I think many would have wondered but only a few would have doubted that Sentry stalemated Galactus if it was Reed Richards that had made the claim because he has a tendency to be correct in the statements he gives. But thing is that is wasn't Reed Richards, it was Spiderman given a statement under unknown circumstances about a incident we can't even be sure he saw with his own eyes.

But yeah, I'm not going to argue my point anymore. I've said all I can think to say. 🙂

There's a difference between you admitting to being below someone, and someone saying they saw something...

^ They're still both unproven statements. For instance, Mace stated he was inferior to Yoda as a swordsman. Their battles with Sidious, however, paint a much different picture.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ They're still both unproven statements. For instance, Mace stated he was inferior to Yoda as a swordsman. Their battles with Sidious, however, paint a much different picture.

At least with admitting you're below someone, there's a rough measure of power that goes into it.

Originally posted by Blanket
Because Mace used Vaapad against Sidious.

He was probably just giving Yoda respect -- kind of like when Anakin said that Obi-Wan was "as powerful as master Windu, and as wise as master Yoda" during AOTC. I mean we know Obi-Wan wasn't really that powerful/wise. *shrug*

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep, so he wasn't really an inferior swordsman at all.

He was probably just giving Yoda respect -- kind of like when Anakin said that Obi-Wan was "as powerful as master Windu, and as wise as master Yoda" during AOTC. I mean we know Obi-Wan wasn't really that powerful/wise. *shrug*

Maybe, maybe not. But that's him saying it. Not an outside force like Hayden Christensen... Anakin Skywalker.

Originally posted by Blanket
Vaapad uses the power of the dark side against their opponent. It'd be like saying Metallo with a kryptonite heart is as powerful as Doomsday because both can fight with Superman.
Vaapad wouldn't work well against Yoda to say the least.

Maybe, maybe not. But that's him saying it. Not an outside force like Hayden Christensen... Anakin Skywalker.

Huh?

Originally posted by Galan007
Vaapad also channels Mace's own inner darkness and allows him to use it freely in battle (that's why he originally created it, in fact.) So yes, Vaapad would still retain an advantage against practitioners of the 'light side' of the force.

Huh?

Anakin is an outside source talking about others power levels. Mace is talking about someone being above his own level.
There's a difference.

Originally posted by Blanket
Yes, and works against Dark Side users.
Wouldn't retain an advantage against Yoda just because it worked against Sidious though.

Anakin is an outside source talking about others power levels. Mace is talking about someone being above his own level.
There's a difference.

Chalk it up to a statement based purely on respect, imo.

Originally posted by Blanket
Yes, and works against Dark Side users.
Wouldn't retain an advantage against Yoda just because it worked against Sidious though.

Anakin is an outside source talking about others power levels. Mace is talking about someone being above his own level.
There's a difference.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Considering how much respect Mace and other Jedi have for Yoda it could just be Mace being modest. Yoda might be his peer in swordsmanship but I don't think it would be fair to call him his superior especially considering at his advanced age Yoda required heavy use of the force to move around and jump like he did against Dooku.

Either you and Galan are one and the same or something reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllly weird is going on between you two...

Kubik spoke in FF Annual #26.

Owen Reece as the unrestricted Molecule Man stated,
that only he was above Beyonder in power.

Owen Reece stomps Cube beings like we stomp ants,
Owen also stated that his power/awareness was many infinites beyond a Cube being.

Kubik, who's word is being stamped as cosmic law here,
confirmed that Owen was far more powerful than himself and Kosmos,
so Owen wasn't hyperboling (proven by how he stomped Beyonder so easily)
The LT also called Owen one of the most powerful beings in the Omniverse.

So ... 😐

Also ...

Way AFTER FF Annual #26, both Kubik & Kosmos
control the 3rd Dimensional Timestream (including 616) from the 4th Dimension.

Post/Beyonder is credited
with erasing 616 Death from existence in her bio. (2006)
Post/Beyonder is credited
with granting Rachel the full power of the Phoneix Force in Rachel's bio. (2004)
Post/Beyonder is credited
with threatening Eternity's existence. (2006)
Post/Beyonder was affecting reality on a Multiversal scale during the Protege arc.

So again ... 😐

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree here. I think that if you are going to accept one unsupported statement made by a character as fact, then you need to accept all unsupported statements as fact. Picking and choosing which characters are more 'reliable' then others as your basis behind 'truth' is completely open to personal opinion, and therefore tends to be a faulty path to travel where debates are concerned. Imo.

But yeah, I'm not going to argue my point anymore. I've said all I can think to say. 🙂

I disagree, I don't think that a unproven statement made by Spiderman concerning for instance a cosmic threat (for instance Hunger or The Collective) should carry as much weight as Thanos or Reed Richards statement on the matter, simply because the later simply have more experience within the given field to estimate the level of power the threat is operation under, to suggest that Spiderman and Reed are equally without knowledge in the given example is from my perspective wrong.

But again that is my opinion. I to see no reason to continue the debate, we have different standpoints on the subject and no reason to drive a debate around in circles.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ They're still both unproven statements. For instance, Mace stated he was inferior to Yoda as a swordsman. Their battles with Sidious, however, paint a much different picture.

In the manuscript concerning the battle in Episode Three, iirc Yoda succeeded in disarming Sidious.