Atheism

Originally posted by Digi
Side topic, you hit on one of the frequent stereotypes of atheism. Who says we can't believe in something greater than ourselves, like others and their happiness or Ideals? I realize you say it with some sarcasm, but many actually think that way. They think atheists worship themselves.

Also, I don't view it as worshipping myself so much as having confidence in my own worth as well as taking responsibility for my own shortcomings. And of course I believe in certain great leaders or minds and certain ideals, who doesn't?

Originally posted by Digi
The data would disagree with you.

I'm not sure. I don't have any graphs or anything, but from what I have been reading, the population of Atheists (that truly do not believe in a God or higher prescence) has doubled in the last ten years. What data are you talking about?

Originally posted by socool8520
Also, I don't view it as worshipping myself so much as having confidence in my own worth as well as taking responsibility for my own shortcomings. And of course I believe in certain great leaders or minds and certain ideals, who doesn't?

Right, that's kind of the point. What atheists "believe in" in those terms is often no different than anyone else. I'm talking about public perception though.

Originally posted by socool8520
I'm not sure. I don't have any graphs or anything, but from what I have been reading, the population of Atheists (that truly do not believe in a God or higher prescence) has doubled in the last ten years. What data are you talking about?

The data I linked to on the last page, that we've been talking about?

It's not the only poll of its kind, and there are more formal studies of the same nature. They all come back roughly the same: that atheists are the most mistrusted cultural group in America.

Where have you read the atheist-doubling stuff? I'd be interested to see it.

Originally posted by Digi
It's not the only poll of its kind, and there are more formal studies of the same nature. They all come back roughly the same: that atheists are the most mistrusted cultural group in America.

the violence poll I posted actually suggests Muslims are, even among atheists.

American atheists do not have a positive view of muslims at all

Originally posted by inimalist
the violence poll I posted actually suggests Muslims are, even among atheists.

American atheists do not have a positive view of muslims at all

They shouldn't have attacked us on 9/11

If "Islam" attacked us on 9-11, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Originally posted by inimalist
the violence poll I posted actually suggests Muslims are, even among atheists.

American atheists do not have a positive view of muslims at all

Fair enough. The link I posted last page suggests that Muslims and Tea Party-ers have closed the gap. Atheists may be sitting #3 right now, but as I also mused upon, I feel like those other two hatred are more likely to fade over decades of normality.

Originally posted by Digi
Right, that's kind of the point. What atheists "believe in" in those terms is often no different than anyone else. I'm talking about public perception though.

The data I linked to on the last page, that we've been talking about?

It's not the only poll of its kind, and there are more formal studies of the same nature. They all come back roughly the same: that atheists are the most mistrusted cultural group in America.

Where have you read the atheist-doubling stuff? I'd be interested to see it.

I see your point.

Sorry it took so long to respond. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/religion.html There is the census data that shows a doubling of Atheists from 1990 to 2001, however it does level off quite a bit after 2001.

Interesting file, thanks, but I think you misread some of the data. In the self-described religious affiliation numbers, there's actually no data for atheists in 1990. Atheists were included in the agnostic totals, making differentiation between them impossible. It wasn't until 2001 that they had any data for atheists. There is a marked increase between 2001 and 2008, but also more respondents, so looking at percentages is better.
2001 - 4.3%
2008 - 7.1%

Also of some interest is this: Percentage of no religion specified (this includes atheist, agnostic, and "no religion"😉
1990 - 8.17
2001 - 14.17
2008 - 14.97

An increase, yes, though not a gigantic one.

The most interesting thing from that data has nothing to do with non-religion. For example, Protestantism got walloped. Evangelicals and Non-denominational Christians experienced huge increases. Judaism was one of the few to experience a decline in totals both times despite more respondents. And a few others of note.

I also tend to slightly inflate non-religious numbers in my mind, and deflate religious ones, because of what I call "census Christians." Those who will check the "Christian" box despite never attending church, never really praying or worshiping, and generally leading secular lives. The label is just a social identifier, either out of indifference, habit from upbringing, or specifically to be identified with a group so as not to be outcast. I can't imagine anyone checking "non-religious" or "atheist" if they aren't, but I can with religion.

...

However, my point for the last couple pages has been the social perception of atheists, not numbers. Muslims are a far greater percentage of the world's population than atheists, but the perception of them is almost universally below other religions. I love reading through that kind of information, but it doesn't change what I've posted. Any cursory increase to the number of atheists isn't the catalyst that will change public perception of them. Muslims or Tea Party'ers might have overtaken atheists in the "least trusted" category for now, but the larger point is that none of them are particularly trusted in the cultural zeitgeist.

And as interesting as that data is, it's at best 3 data points. Identifying long-term trends instead of random fluctuation or short-term responses will take much more than what the data currently offers.

Thank you though, I'm bookmarking that.

No problem. 🙂 I was under the impression they had separated the agnostics and others from the actual atheists but, as you said, I may have misread.

Also, in my opinion I think that yes, atheists are mistrusted, and probably will be more so than most religious groups for a long time. I do think however, that the sentiment has and will change more and more as time goes by. I honestly get less criticism from the my generation than I do from elders. I believe with more information at our fingertips, people will be able to think for themselves and not be blinded by religious biases.

I like your optimism, and I'd like to agree, but I think you underestimate large chunks of this country. I recently moved and haven't said the word "atheist" to anyone because I can't be sure of the religious climate. I think my coworkers get that I'm not particularly religious, but that's about it. I moved from a location that wasn't hardcore religious at all, but I was still ostracized by certain former friends and community members and confronted occasionally about my atheism. And my new home, for lack of a more PC descriptor, is further south.

If the change happens, it will be gradual as hell.

^ (If you don't want to answer, you don't have to):

I'm from Alabama (live in MI now). You talking that far South? Where'd you move from? I'm assuming "northern" South, like NC/VA area from your post.

Originally posted by Harbinger
^ (If you don't want to answer, you don't have to):

I'm from Alabama (live in MI now). You talking that far South? Where'd you move from? I'm assuming "northern" South, like NC/VA area from your post.

Fellow Michigander!

Originally posted by Harbinger
^ (If you don't want to answer, you don't have to):

Clearly, but the point is that it's not a climate where I'm comfortable saying it, which is unfortunate in and of itself.

Originally posted by Harbinger
I'm from Alabama (live in MI now). You talking that far South? Where'd you move from? I'm assuming "northern" South, like NC/VA area from your post.

Without naming cities: Not quite "deep" south, not quite tornado alley, but close to both. Very much in the Midwest.

I moved from the southern end of the Great Lakes.

Originally posted by Digi
I like your optimism, and I'd like to agree, but I think you underestimate large chunks of this country. I recently moved and haven't said the word "atheist" to anyone because I can't be sure of the religious climate. I think my coworkers get that I'm not particularly religious, but that's about it. I moved from a location that wasn't hardcore religious at all, but I was still ostracized by certain former friends and community members and confronted occasionally about my atheism. And my new home, for lack of a more PC descriptor, is further south.

If the change happens, it will be gradual as hell.

Going to a Methodist college. Includes a theological school. Church on campus. Crosses and stained glass everywhere.

Girl in a headscarf doesn't get a second glance except to ask why she isn't eating lunch (ramadan). No one bats an eye when I mention I'm an atheist.

North-East is nice.

The first part of that was meant for my question; IOW, you didn't have to answer my question if you didn't feel comfortable doing so. I constructed the post awkwardly, though.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
North-East is nice.

Agreed. But so is being able to pick the city or area you live in. That's not a luxury I have at the moment. I do enjoy my job, it's rewarding and stable, but it was a move of necessity. I'm sure most atheists first choice would be the northeast.

So this isn't a complaint, but more an observation. I go out of my way not to broadcast my atheism here. Which is unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

Originally posted by Digi
Agreed. But so is being able to pick the city or area you live in. That's not a luxury I have at the moment. I do enjoy my job, it's rewarding and stable, but it was a move of necessity. I'm sure most atheists first choice would be the northeast.

So this isn't a complaint, but more an observation. I go out of my way not to broadcast my atheism here. Which is unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

I'm sorry for your experience. I guess I'm pretty lucky. I'm from Texas and I only received criticism and disappointment from older people. I really didn't notice it from people my age (26 or younger). My friends were a little wierd about it, but got over fairly quickly. Oklahoma is pretty bad though.

You're from Michigan huh? That's pretty cool. I lived there for about 6 years. Anywhere from Flint to Detroit. Still have a brother that lives up there.

Ann Arbor FTW

Originally posted by Digi
Clearly, but the point is that it's not a climate where I'm comfortable saying it, which is unfortunate in and of itself.

Without naming cities: Not quite "deep" south, not quite tornado alley, but close to both. Very much in the Midwest.

I moved from the southern end of the Great Lakes.

Also, give me your exact address. sneer