Darth Maul vs. Lord Kas'im

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, do I think Qui-Gon could have given Sidious any sort of prolonged fight (as he did with Maul)? Hell no. Do I think Obi-Wan as a Padawan could get in any good shots on Sidious (as he did with Maul)? Hell no -- especially when RotS-Obi-Wan outright stated that even he and Yoda combined would be no match for him. Do I think Maul could have slew 3 of "the greatest swordsmen the Order has ever produced" with a ridiculous degree of ease, AND matched a Vaapad-empowered Mace blow for blow (as Sidious did)? Hell no.

(Btw, I know you never claimed Maul = Sidious, but I figured it was only a matter of time until someone tried lol.)

Prolonged fight or not, Maul dominated the fight with Qui-Gon, directing the action and determining the course of the fight actively (as elaborated on in the novel.) And all I can say is that the movie showing of Obi-Wan's brief spat with him was an aberration. I mean, Qui-Gon is a master swordsman in his own right and presumably better than a padawan who copied his style, right? I don't understand the choreography behind that, especially when Maul did better 2 against 1 than 1 on 1, but whatever.

He still tooled Darth Vader canonically. awesome

Originally posted by Galan007
Kas'im, on the other hand, was not only a confirmed master of every form of lightsaber combat, but he also tooled Bane as though he were a talentless feeb... Now that's sumthin rite thuur.

If Kas'im opts for using Jar'Kai immediately, the fight might end pretty quick. But otherwise, I don't see it being easy for him to win - although I do agree that, in the end, Kas'im takes it.

Maul never fought Vader. If you try to claim Maul clone==maul, I will punch you in the nose. The only person to ever try to claim that was HWKA. You don't want to be in that company do you?

Kas'im pretty much annihilates him. He'll either finish the fight in an absurdly short time or he'll dominate for the entire duration of a prolonged engagement. He's everything that Maul is but vastly, vastly superior.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Prolonged fight or not, Maul dominated the fight with Qui-Gon, directing the action and determining the course of the fight actively (as elaborated on in the novel.) And all I can say is that the movie showing of Obi-Wan's brief spat with him was an aberration. I mean, Qui-Gon is a master swordsman in his own right and presumably better than a padawan who copied his style, right? I don't understand the choreography behind that, especially when Maul did better 2 against 1 than 1 on 1, but whatever.

"[Qui-Gon] had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. Qui-Gon Jinn might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty." - TPM

As for Obi-Wan, he also did quite well against Maul initially...

"The Sith Lord was borne backward by [Obi-Wan's] initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, and pressed all the way back to the far wall of the melting pit. There he struggled to keep the young Jedi at bay, trying to open enough space between them to defend himself. Lightsabers scraped and grated against each other, and the chamber echoed with their fury. Lunging and twisting, Darth Maul regained the offensive and counterattacked, using both ends of his lightsaber in an effort to cut Obi-Wan's legs out from under him. But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down." - TPM

Anyhow, my only point is that Qui-Gon and Padawan Obi-Wan were able to (at least for a while) hold their own against Maul one on one. That said, Maul certainly wouldn't be able to compete with Sidious in an actual battle, on any level. Imo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He still tooled Darth Vader canonically. awesome

Originally posted by Enyalus
If Kas'im opts for using Jar'Kai immediately, the fight might end pretty quick. But otherwise, I don't see it being easy for him to win - although I do agree that, in the end, Kas'im takes it.

Originally posted by truejedi
Maul never fought Vader. If you try to claim Maul clone==maul, I will punch you in the nose. The only person to ever try to claim that was HWKA. You don't want to be in that company do you?

shrug

^ You're right, Eny. It was never outright stated that Maul was cloned -- in fact, no real specifics pertaining to his resurrection were given... These few vague statements are all we have to go by:
http://img180.imageshack.us/f/maul1.jpg/
http://img717.imageshack.us/f/maul2.jpg/

Originally posted by Galan007
I have always viewed that showing as little more then Maul's final Sith 'exam' per se -- a chance for Palpatine to push the ever-obedient Maul to his emotional breaking point -- a chance to see if the apprentice could be angered to such a degree that he would actually try to kill his master (the Sith way fulfilled)... Long story short, that showing has never made me believe that Maul was anywhere near Palpatine's level (in any category.)

I mean, do I think Qui-Gon could have given Sidious any sort of prolonged fight (as he did with Maul)? Hell no. Do I think Obi-Wan as a Padawan could get in any good shots on Sidious (as he did with Maul)? Hell no -- especially when RotS-Obi-Wan outright stated that even he and Yoda combined would be no match for him. Do I think Maul could have slew 3 of "the greatest swordsmen the Order has ever produced" with a ridiculous degree of ease, AND matched a Vaapad-empowered Mace blow for blow (as Sidious did)? Hell no.

(Btw, I know you never claimed Maul = Sidious, but I figured it was only a matter of time until someone tried lol.)

---

Kas'im, on the other hand, was not only a confirmed master of every form of lightsaber combat, but he also tooled Bane as though he were a talentless feeb... Now that's sumthin rite thuur.

Ya know.... I just don't see the quote of Obi saying we can't take Sid together as all together as a totally factual statement. He has no clue what they could and couldn't do, and latter evidence proved he was wrong. That quote seemed to me, that he was more scared of the proposition of confronting a sith lord, with his track record against lesser sith's had been great. That was just his opinion not a fact. Yoda later proved this to not be true, but taking on, and getting the better of the sith lord. He made sid...flee time and after time to try and get away from Yoda. If he could've killed yoda he would've or stuck around. Yet we saw him do the opposite. I really don't see that statement from Obi as anything more than him being scared and for dramatical purposes.

Didn't Maul get tooled TWICE by some dude with a wooden stick????? Serious question here.

Siolo Ur Manka I believe was his name. This happened around the same time (circa 32 BBY) he confronted and killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Not sure as to the level of canon though. However, it still gives us a glimpse of what might happen if Maul were to face a warrior on the level of Kas'im.

Actually, upon further thought, I'm not sure if Kas'im "stomps" this like some people have said. Bane with just 1 year of training was able to drive Kas'im back, and Kas'im only got an advantage due to using a form unfamiliar to Bane. However, in this case Maul is familiar with all forms that Kas'im is known to have used.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Actually, upon further thought, I'm not sure if Kas'im "stomps" this like some people have said. Bane with just 1 year of training was able to drive Kas'im back, and Kas'im only got an advantage due to using a form unfamiliar to Bane. However, in this case Maul is familiar with all forms that Kas'im is known to have used.

Read my comment and give me your interpretation.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Read my comment and give me your interpretation.

Additionally though, Maul only had his single-bladed lightsaber when Siolo looked better than him, and it only happened once. Second time, with his saberstaff, he killed the Jedi Master.

Originally posted by Enyalus
On the inside of Tales #10, where it lists the stories located within, it's got an "Infinities" stamp. And Infinities is non-canon. Tales 1-20 is non-canon.

Additionally though, Maul only had his single-bladed lightsaber when Siolo looked better than him, and it only happened once. Second time, with his saberstaff, he killed the Jedi Master.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Enyalus
If Kas'im opts for using Jar'Kai immediately, the fight might end pretty quick. [/B]

Beg your pardon, but I doubt that. The only reason Kas'im's Jar'Kai was so devastating against Bane was because Bane had ZERO familiarity with it. Heck, that was why Kas'im didn't teach it to anyone; to make sure he'd always have an ace up his sleeve.

Maul is familiar with Jar'Kai and is in fact an expert at it himself. Even if Kas'im uses it right off the bat it won't help much.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Didn't Maul get tooled TWICE by some dude with a wooden stick????? Serious question here.[/B]

Serious answer, no. He got tooled ONCE and won the re-match.

Plus that 'dude' (Siolo'urmanka) was described as one of the greatest living Jedi warriors.

Kas'im stomps. And because I agree with popular and obvious opinion, I win.whistling

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Beg your pardon, but I doubt that. The only reason Kas'im's Jar'Kai was so devastating against Bane was because Bane had ZERO familiarity with it. Heck, that was why Kas'im didn't teach it to anyone; to make sure he'd always have an ace up his sleeve.

Maul is familiar with Jar'Kai and is in fact an expert at it himself. Even if Kas'im uses it right off the bat it won't help much.

Serious answer, no. He got tooled ONCE and won the re-match.

Plus that 'dude' (Siolo'urmanka) was described as one of the greatest living Jedi warriors.

He got tooled the first time and was in the process of getting tooled the second time before he ignited the second blade of his newly built dual-bladed lightsaber. Either way, he was getting his ass handed to him. And I brought this up because it might help to illuminate what might happen if Maul were to face another combatant of kas'im's caliber.

And yes Letum Lettow, you win. We all win. Except for those who don't win.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
He got tooled the first time and was in the process of getting tooled the second time before he ignited the second blade of his newly built dual-bladed lightsaber. Either way, he was getting his ass handed to him. And I brought this up because it might help to illuminate what might happen if Maul were to face another combatant of kas'im's caliber.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
And yes Letum Lettow, you win. We all win. Except for those who don't win.

Originally posted by Letum Lettow
Why bother seducing a woman who will **** whenever she's in tears?

😕