^ Vaapad is the only form that allows it's user to channel their own inner darkness AND their opponent's darkness (if applicable) and use it offensively in battle. Aside from Vaapad, Juyo is the only other form that is 'empowered' by it's user's darkness -- but as Eny said, Juyo is an incomplete and very inefficient form of combat.
Makashi, on the other hand, isn't 'bettered' by darkness.
Originally posted by Enyalus
And....The difference between a Juyo Master and a Vaapad master, in addition to the channeling darkness thing, is that Juyo is an incomplete form. Mace took Juyo, perfected it and made it his own. I imagine Juyo against Vaapad is the difference between a flintlock gun and a gas-powered gun. Same basic principle, with one being the more polished, finished product.
Maul seemed to do pretty well with it. 😬
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Questionable. The Jedi considered Juyo to be incomplete, possibly because it relied so heavily upon the user's darker emotions.Maul seemed to do pretty well with it. 😬
I'm not understanding you, I don't think. Joy or ecstasy while fighting is a no-no for a proper Jedi. Exactly what does serenity or peace feel like? I'm not sure its an emotion at all.
Also, I somehow think that focusing on your own fear or sadness would hinder your ability to fight rather than help it...
They have a saying in Bushido - "Go into battle determined to die, and you shall live to fight again. Go into battle determined to live, and surely you shall not." Being scared and focusing on that is really only going to harm that person. I don't see why they'd want to channel it.
Originally posted by Board Walker
What about grey jedi? Orwhat if ajedi feels absolute joy, serenity, ecstacy while fighting and channels it?
Then they'd be enjoying hurting someone (or trying to hurt them) which is defintely not a good thing and a sure-fire path to the Dark Side.
Originally posted by Board Walker
Or channels their own fear, sadness, etc?
Fear leads to the Dark Side. Remember Yoda's advice;
"Anger, fear, aggression. Easily they flow. Quick to join you in a fight."
Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm not understanding you, I don't think. Joy or ecstasy while fighting is a no-no for a proper Jedi. Exactly what does serenity or peace feel like? I'm not sure its an emotion at all.Also, I somehow think that focusing on your own fear or sadness would hinder your ability to fight rather than help it...
They have a saying in Bushido - "Go into battle determined to die, and you shall live to fight again. Go into battle determined to live, and surely you shall not." Being scared and focusing on that is really only going to harm that person. I don't see why they'd want to channel it.
Precisely.
Originally posted by Board WalkerSith use their own darkness to further empower themselves in battle -- Jedi, for the most part, do not use any emotions in battle (especially the aggressive type.)
Don't many individuals use their inner darkness/light to power themselves in combat, almost all non vaapad users...didn't sidious do it? Doesn't luke, etc.??
But what I don't think you're understanding where Vaapad is concerned is that it's ability to channel your opponent's inner darkness, along with your own, is what sets it apart from any other form. Those abilities are what give Vaapad an advantage against both the Sith (because you can tap their darkness along with your own), and the Jedi (because you can still tap your own darkness [which in Mace's case is considerable] and use it against them as a 'weapon of the light'.)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but since lightsabers are apparently mass-less with the exception of the handle why would how hard you hit with it matter?
Originally posted by Enyalus
"Although the blade was weightless, two-handed slashes were the most common movement. This was because inertia was still needed to cut through solid objects. Solid objects were repelled by the blade arc until they were changed to gas or plasma. Therefore, inertia was required to counteract the initial repelling force. The stronger the swing, the faster and easier the blade would cut. If little force was applied to the swing, the repelling force of the blade arc would leave shallow cuts. When two lightsaber blades came in contact with each other, the two repelling forces made the blade appear to be solid. If the lightsaber is dropped, the blade will retract automatically, so the user will not be injured.Also, the field that caused the energy to arc back into the blade caused some gyroscopic effects. While technically weightless, the blade still had some resistance to changes in motion. The slight gyroscopic effects were easily controlled by a trained force user, but could become problematic for lay person."
I got that from Wookie, though.
Um...What I didn't copy in that quote which may be confusing for those who read it, is that lightsabers produce a magnetic field which bends the blade back into the emitter after it extends a certain length, thus preventing it from extending indefinitely. That magnetic field is the 'repelling force' and 'blade arc' mentioned above.
Originally posted by SWFan4Life
Where can you read up on saber forms? Is it as simple as Wookiepedia, or is there a better source?
Fightsaber.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Um...What I didn't copy in that quote which may be confusing for those who read it, is that lightsabers produce a magnetic field which bends the blade back into the emitter after it extends a certain length, thus preventing it from extending indefinitely. That magnetic field is the 'repelling force' and 'blade arc' mentioned above.
I seriously doubt that even in SW, something could be completely weightless, with absolutely no mass.
Originally posted by Galan007
I would still give the nod to Vaapad in an all things being equal match vs. Makashi. Mainly because a user of Vaapad is still free to harness their own inner darkness.
Edit: Vaapad's only benefit is it can draw upon the foe's darkness as well.
All the forms see equal to me, with no form being better then another.
I see makashi as being good for precision, speed, dueling, 1v1, but I see its cons as being versus multiple opponents simultaneously, vs non saber weapons.
I see vaapads pros as being high burst power, burst overwhelming aggression, ferociousness, in short try to overwhelm your opponent asap befoe you burn out. However I see its cons as, burns out fastest of any form from drawing heavily upon ds which degrades the user as well as the opponents ds which further degrades the user. Also vaapad is inferior to juyo vs non ds users, in that a juyo user gives in 100% to their emotion, while vaapad skates the umbra of the ds only use the edge of their emotion/ds. So vs a ds user vaapad is superior to juyo potentially..because it uses some of the users ds, and channels some not all of the opponents ds, thus I see vaapad as being only truly viable vs "heavily" saturated ds users, otherwise it isn't at full potential.
I see juyo as being a ferocious, break your opponent asap with full offense, speed, force powers, strength, high burst power due to heavy emotion channeling. Cons are similar to vaapad burns out user fast, so if user out last you for your brief limited burst you likely will lose, I see juyo superiorto vaapadin all ways except vs a extremely heavily saturated ds user. As juyo channels all of the users ds/emotions, and not just skates the umbra. However it doesn't channel their opponents ds as much as vaapad does.
All of the forms have equal pros and cons
Originally posted by Board WalkerYour views on Vaapad are skewed.
I see vaapads pros as being high burst power, burst overwhelming aggression, ferociousness, in short try to overwhelm your opponent asap befoe you burn out. However I see its cons as, burns out fastest of any form from drawing heavily upon ds which degrades the user as well as the opponents ds which further degrades the user. Also vaapad is inferior to juyo vs non ds users, in that a juyo user gives in 100% to their emotion, while vaapad skates the umbra of the ds only use the edge of their emotion/ds. So vs a ds user vaapad is superior to juyo potentially..because it uses some of the users ds, and channels some not all of the opponents ds, thus I see vaapad as being only truly viable vs "heavily" saturated ds users, otherwise it isn't at full potential
A.) Your opinion that Vaapad burns out faster than any other form couldn't be further from the truth. Mace (the only true master of Vaapad) never once demonstrated any signs of fatigue due to using Vaapad. Furthermore, it was stated in the RotS novelization that during Mace's battle with Sidious (arguably one of the most impressive duels ever), there was "not even the possibility of fatigue." So yeah...
B.) Vaapad is the refined version of the otherwise incomplete Juyo. It is certainly not inferior.
C.) The reason Mace invented Vaapad was to channel his own darkness into a weapon of the light. It was not created to tap into the power of dark siders -- that was just an added perk. It is perfectly 'viable' vs. light siders.