saber style Makashi: Questions

So when Palp called himself too weak to continue... he was just lying? Please prove this point shoes... He said he was too weak... is there any proof his was weakening... sure his face was melting and he stopped shooting the lighting. Fact. Is there proof he wasn't weak and could've continued. Please post it. Just because he shot lighting MORE than mere seconds later proves nothing. As Eny pointed out Dooku got his reserves back quickly. There was a whole conversation between Palp and Mace after he stopped... another conversation between Palp, Mace and Anakin... This wasn't mere seconds.. more like a minute. If I'm exhausted from running and take a couple minute breather.. I won't have enough energy to sprint really quick for 20 yards? I think I would and Palp had enough to do the same. Howeve,r that doesn't change the fact that he was beaten, weak and at the point he stopped there is ZERO proof he was lying when he said he was too weak to continue.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Sorry, you want me to discredit Palpatine calling himself too weak to continue the fight, but give credence to his unlimited power line?

How's that working for you?

👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So when Palp called himself too weak to continue... he was just lying?

Obviously playing to Anakin.

Please prove this point shoes... He said he was too weak... is there any proof his was weakening... sure his face was melting and he stopped shooting the lighting.

You claim that Palpatine couldn't continue because either:

a) He was half dead
b) His force reserves were depleted

If you chose A, please provide evidence.

If you chose B, please adress the following:

1 - Palpatine fueled his power with pain. Canon. As long as Windu kept reflecting, Palpatine would never run out of power. Canon. There can be three outcomes here:

Palpatine dies
Palpatine approaches death and surrenders
Windu dies

Because this is the most powerful sith lord in history, I doubt that his fake face melting off meant he was approaching death. You would need to prove that.

2 - The novel explicitly states that Windu was about to give up.

3 - Read the Bane example. After Bane gave everything he had with the TK wave, he fell over and simply lay there for several minutes, unable to continue. I don't recall Palpatine resting for more than 20 seconds, meaning he didn't really use his lightning to the extent that he could.

4 - Palpatine launched himself to his feet and blasted Windu with lightning seconds after he claimed he was "too weak".

Also GL claims he was faking weakness in the RotS commentary...

Originally posted by Shoes
Obviously playing to Anakin.

You claim that Palpatine couldn't continue because either:

a) He was half dead
b) His force reserves were depleted

If you chose A, please provide evidence.

If you chose B, please adress the following:

1 - Palpatine fueled his power with pain. Canon. As long as Windu kept reflecting, Palpatine would never run out of power. Canon. There can be three outcomes here:

Palpatine dies
Palpatine approaches death and surrenders
Windu dies

Because this is the most powerful sith lord in history, I doubt that his fake face melting off meant he was approaching death. You would need to prove that.

2 - The novel explicitly states that Windu was about to give up.

3 - Read the Bane example. After Bane gave everything he had with the TK wave, he fell over and simply lay there for several minutes, unable to continue. I don't recall Palpatine resting for more than 20 seconds, meaning he didn't really use his lightning to the extent that he could.

4 - Palpatine launched himself to his feet and blasted Windu with lightning seconds after he claimed he was "too weak".

I asked you for proof and you provided none, and yet ask me for proof. Interesting...

I asked for proof he was lying when he said he was too weak.. you come back with he was playing to anakin.. please post the quote or scene in which Palp said he was faking weakness for Anakin.

You're asking for proof he was too weak to continue.. are you serious... HE DIRECTLY and SPECIFICALLY said he was too weak to continue and was curled up in a ball with his face almost melted off. Yet you want proof of this.. WTF LOL. No it's you who needs to provide proof that this was a lie and he was just fine.. .the proof that he wasn't, is in his face, his words and him actually stopping. It seems you need to learn where the burden of proof lies.

How many times do we need to address your false statement of it being mere seconds after him saying that. It was much LONGER than mere seconds.. in fact, he spoke with windu and pleaded after stopping, he spoke to anakin after he stopped. anakin and mace had a brief conversation. Anakin strikes windu's arm off and mace then has an expression of disbelief.. All this proves it was more than mere seconds as you claim. Per my example.... if i'm exhausted and tired from a grueling fight and can't punch anymore.. you give me a minute to rest.. I'll be able to fire some more punches before tiring again. Were you absent when logic and common sense were passed out?

Originally posted by Shoes
Because this is the most powerful sith lord in history, I doubt that his fake face melting off meant he was approaching death.

So it wasn't simply a 'fake face' melting off...his molecular structure was being rearranged by the intense heat and Dark Side power. He was pretty obviously in danger, then, which is likely why he chose to stop firing his Force Lightning.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I asked you for proof and you provided none, and yet ask me for proof. Interesting...

I asked for proof he was lying when he said he was too weak.. you come back with he was playing to anakin.. please post the quote or scene in which Palp said he was faking weakness for Anakin.

You're asking for proof he was too weak to continue.. are you serious... HE DIRECTLY and SPECIFICALLY said he was too weak to continue and was curled up in a ball with his face almost melted off. Yet you want proof of this.. WTF LOL. No it's you who needs to provide proof that this was a lie and he was just fine.. .the proof that he wasn't, is in his face, his words and him actually stopping. It seems you need to learn where the burden of proof lies.

How many times do we need to address your false statement of it being mere seconds after him saying that. It was much LONGER than mere seconds.. in fact, he spoke with windu and pleaded after stopping, he spoke to anakin after he stopped. anakin and mace had a brief conversation. Anakin strikes windu's arm off and mace then has an expression of disbelief.. All this proves it was more than mere seconds as you claim. Per my example.... if i'm exhausted and tired from a grueling fight and can't punch anymore.. you give me a minute to rest.. I'll be able to fire some more punches before tiring again. Were you absent when logic and common sense were passed out?

Welcome to my ignore list. This will be my last response to you.

Prove he was lying? How about you prove he was telling the truth, because everything points to the contrary. See, you demanded proof of him lying. I gave you 4 reasons that point to him lying. Now you have to prove the validity of his statement. Which you didn't. Moreover, you ignored all of those reasons posted above and instead of offering a competent response, you regurgitated "prove it lol" over and over again.

Originally posted by Enyalus
According to Wizards of the Coast, Sidious used a Force Mask technique which utilized Sith alchemy to alter his face at the molecular level, thereby creating the mask. This is hinted at in the novelization where Palpatine says something to the affect of, "And so the mask becomes the man" after it happens.

So it wasn't simply a 'fake face' melting off...his molecular structure was being rearranged by the intense heat and Dark Side power. He was pretty obviously in danger, then, which is likely why he chose to stop firing his Force Lightning.

wtf is this Wizards of the Coast?

Even so, after it melted off, I assume the face underneath was the real one, which meant he had no need for the mask except to conceal his ravaged appearance.

Originally posted by Shoes
wtf is this Wizards of the Coast?

Originally posted by Shoes
wtf is this Wizards of the Coast?

Even so, after it melted off, I assume the face underneath was the real one, which meant he had no need for the mask except to conceal his ravaged appearance.

"Palpatine, who has delved extensively into Sith lore, was using an almost-forgotten technique to hide his true self. In game terms, this is an application of the Alchemy skill from the Dark Side Sourcebook (page 13)."

Elaborating on this ancient Sith technique, WotC say it was an alchemical mask, and state:

"Unlike a mundane disguise (which is temporary) or cosmetic surgery (which requires considerably more time to use), an Alchemy mask alters the subject on the molecular level. The subject's true appearance is not apparent on sensors or even during a medical examination. Even if an observer's Spot check beats the Alchemy check result, the observer is only aware that something is wrong -- unnatural, perhaps -- about the subject. (In the case of impersonating a particular individual, of course, the observer would be aware that the subject was an imposter.) However, the mask can be dispelled by dark side energy: If the subject takes damage from a dark side Force skill, the subject must make a Fortitude save (DC 5 + damage dealt) or the mask is removed and the subject’s true face reappears. Furthermore, the sudden transformation physically distorts the subject with dark energy, imposing a permanent -2 penalty to all Disguise checks and an additional -1 penalty for every Dark Side Point the subject had gained in the past 10 rounds prior to losing the mask. These penalties make future attempts to create a mask or mundane disguise much less likely to be successful."

Therefore, there was no "real face" underneath the mask which was melted off. Palpatine used the mask technique to alter his own face at the molecular level, and his own discharge of dark side energies dispelled that. Which could very well be why in the novelization he says,

Palpatine examined the damage to his face in a broad expanse of wall mirror. Anakin couldn't tell if his expression might be revulsion, or if this were merely the new shape of his features. Palpatine lifted one tentative hand to the misshapen horror that he now saw in the mirror, then simply shrugged.

"And so the mask becomes the man," he sighed with a hint of philosophical melancholy. "I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purpose, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve."

And there you have it.

That last quote there implies that upon destroying the mask, the true face of Sidious was revealed. Meaning his face was underneath the mask.

G-canon son.

Ooooo no I got ignored by Shoes... LOL LOL. This is what happens when someone gets called on for proof... only supplies conjecture.. gets called on it again... then they put you on ignore.

Originally posted by Enyalus
According to Wizards of the Coast, Sidious used a Force Mask technique which utilized Sith alchemy to alter his face at the molecular level, thereby creating the mask. This is hinted at in the novelization where Palpatine says something to the affect of, "And so the mask becomes the man" after it happens.

So it wasn't simply a 'fake face' melting off...his molecular structure was being rearranged by the intense heat and Dark Side power. He was pretty obviously in danger, then, which is likely why he chose to stop firing his Force Lightning.

How did he conceal his Force signature in the presence of so many Jedi Masters? Or better yet, to conceal his dark aura AND simulataneously project a presence in the Force of one who is not a Force-sensitive?

I recall in LOTF that Caedus used the conceal and project trick when he brought Lumiya into the Jedi Temple right in front of Luke, and Luke kept looking over his shoulder, but didn't break through the veil. It put a serious strain on Caedus.

However, how could Palpatine perform that feat consistently? It seemed like it was no effort for him. Was there some other technique he used?

He never did. ROTS states that the dark side of the force surrounds the Chancellor. This is from their perspective.

Originally posted by Shoes
He never did. ROTS states that the dark side of the force surrounds the Chancellor. This is from the Jedis perspectives.

Oh I definitely remember that, but they never noticed that until ROTS. Like in AOTC, when he had practically the entire Council in his office, they couldn't tell. It seemed like Yoda's face said, "WTF?" at one point when Palpatine was speaking, but that is all.

Shoes
He never did. ROTS states that the dark side of the force surrounds the Chancellor. This is from their perspective.

This was after their investigation in Labyrinth of Evil; Palpatine slipped and Yoda was able to sense him on Coruscant. The Quey'tek technique (demonstrated by Ventress in the Cestus Deception and Dooku in LoE) isn't infallible.

Originally posted by Gideon
This was after their investigation in Labyrinth of Evil; Palpatine slipped and Yoda was able to sense him on Coruscant. The Quey'tek technique (demonstrated by Ventress in the Cestus Deception and Dooku in LoE) isn't infallible.

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. I now remember the scene with Yoda in LoE: little green dude sitting by himself concentrating, then: "suddenly Sidious he felt, here on Coruscant!!"..or something along those lines.

That's a neat little trick. I think Darth Zannah used it in Dynasty of Evil to hide herself and Bane in Caleb's dugout from several Jedi Masters, Caedus in the LOTF series (a couple times), and Luke and Ben got the hang of it as well (Fury? when Luke jumped Caedus, very neat). Unless these are a different techniques altogether.

makashi is weak to blaster fire and any style that generates kinetic power.thus djem so,juyo,and vaapad .but i wouldn't count makashi out yet,if the practitioner doesn't try to match power or speed.
Timing
Accuracy
Skill
Intense Focus
these were the main element that gave makashi its advantages with its blade manipulation not strength.balance and footwork were also important.precision .the reason why it dominated because no one was studing it and no one knew how to defend against it. until after AOTC.
take away key attributes and knowledge of your enemy and makashi and its practitioner or master falls unless they improvise.same with all the styles.
i'm sorry makashi was n't bulit with power in mind.cunning,yes,feints,yes but strength,power,absolutely not sorry.

it was breed for lightsaber to lightsaber combat, if you want to surpass this for power then djem so is your style.it too was breed for lightsaber to lightsaber combat.this is the superior makashi with the defensive combination of soresu.it requires a higher level of physical strength than the other forms due to its complete domination of opponents .
it was designed to use the opponents attack against them.