Ganondorf(tp) vs. Hylden Lord(BO2)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.

Not quite, but LoK required more supporters what with the influx of LoZ fanboys.

now that comment i agree on 💃

Originally posted by LLLLLink
What were they going to do? They had just impaled him with their best weapon while he was bound to the wall. Of course they were horrified.

Also, they did manage to transport him to the Twilight Realm, so they actually did take action.

Anyway, he was just dead, so naturally it might take a moment to access a power you just received right after being 'killed'. It wont happen in the real fight.

It took him time to access the power to break free and if it was so instantaneous he wouldn't have waited till he was impaled now would he?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Uhm, lol? Nah, man, and I'd like to see you try and prove this. 😐

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Beating Kain in what was essentially a sword fight while wearing the Nexus stone isn't very impressive.

Sure, that's kewl. I forget what happened there, but was it on screen?

And what amazing things has Janos done?

BO2 is essentially filled with a bunch of wimps. It has the weakest characters out of the entire series (BO2 Kain is weakest)

Yes, it was midway through his battle with Kain that Janos showed up. Janos is an ancient vampire so I think it's implied he's no weakling. He also handled himself very well against Raziel in defiance albeit possessed.

I disagree entirely. Vorador is a force throughout the series as they all are.

How is blood omen 2 Kain weaker than Blood omen Kain?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Compared the other characters in the other games? Hylden Lord isn't as strong.

I thought you would mention that. I dun't really consider the mass a character.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not entirely true, the Hylden lord himself is hardly a wimp and "the mass" could supposedly kill any being on the planet with a thought and with the glyph energy network, every being on the planet could be killed with a thought at the hyldens command had Kain not destroyed it.

Although I agree that the majority of the BO2 characters are some of the weakest in the series, mainly due to the fact that the council was dead and none of the primary characters had been born yet, and kain has not evolved.

Not quite, but LoK required more supporters what with the influx of LoZ fanboys.

Originally posted by quanchi112

It took him time to access the power to break free and if it was so instantaneous he wouldn't have waited till he was impaled now would he?

So he didn't need time to access the power from it so why did he wait until he was impaled and all before he did so? Is he an idiot?

If you remember, "By some divine prank", Ganondorf was blessed with the power only after he was stabbed.

What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How isn't it? Kain was unbeatable with the soulreaver so he couldn't win unless he took away that advantage.

Yes, it was midway through his battle with Kain that Janos showed up. Janos is an ancient vampire so I think it's implied he's no weakling. He also handled himself very well against Raziel in defiance albeit possessed.

I disagree entirely. Vorador is a force throughout the series as they all are.

How is blood omen 2 Kain weaker than Blood omen Kain?

Mebbe because it would nullify the effects of the Soul Reaver, essentially making it a normal sword? =|

Implied.

K.

He has none of his spells (BO Spells > BO2 Spells), his old armor or weapons (Specifically the Soul Reaver).

Originally posted by LLLLLink
If you remember, "By some divine prank", Ganondorf was blessed with the power only after he was stabbed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now?

Not allowed.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Mebbe because it would nullify the effects of the Soul Reaver, essentially making it a normal sword? =|

Implied.

K.

He has none of his spells (BO Spells > BO2 Spells), his old armor or weapons (Specifically the Soul Reaver).

Do you disagree with him being above average?

it's the same Kain and just because the gameplay changed into an action game that doesn't mean he became less weaker as a character. same character and he had more experience and was wiser and got stomped into yesteryear by the Hylden Lord.

Wait what?

What is this TP Ganondorf bullshit?

Every game, it is the same Ganondorf, why would you take away all of his other feats? So that the Hylden Lord can win?

Not that he does, based on TP feats alone, Ganondorf is still far stronger.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Wait what?

What is this TP Ganondorf bullshit?

Every game, it is the same Ganondorf, why would you take away all of his other feats? So that the Hylden Lord can win?

Not that he does, based on TP feats alone, Ganondorf is still far stronger.

Not at all. Him needing to access the power proves it takes time and he only used it to break free from simple cuffs. If he was strong the cuffs should have never held him.

He still thinks all the Zelda games are separate universes, Neme.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, because if the effects aren't nullified he can't beat the wielder of the reaver. He still bested him in combat, having the nexus stone doesn't equal an auto win.

Do you disagree with him being above average?

it's the same Kain and just because the gameplay changed into an action game that doesn't mean he became less weaker as a character. same character and he had more experience and was wiser and got stomped into yesteryear by the Hylden Lord.

And enlighten me, what AMAZING skills does Kain have in swordplay?

Not really.

Not really =|. Kain was stated as to having lost all his former spells and armor.

Except he used none of his powers in the fight, only the Reaver.

So wait performing basic horizontal and vertical strikes is skilled swordplay.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whatever you think on the matter it's moot as this is tp Dorf and many fans disagree. Most just have theories anyways.

Not at all. Him needing to access the power proves it takes time and he only used it to break free from simple cuffs. If he was strong the cuffs should have never held him.

He was dead. 😐 He died, and the Triforce of Power was then granted to him.

This conversation is stupid anyway, Ganondorf merges the area they are fighting in into the Twilight Realm and instantly wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and he only accessed it against Link again after he was stabbed to overcome it yet he failed.

Let me make a comparison so that this is easier for you to understand. You are aware of what Moebius' staff does, correct? It cancels out vampiric energy. With it, he was able to kill either Janos or Vorador, I don't remember which, and put Kain on his knees before the Heart of Darkness was lost.

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff. It cancels out evil energy, as well as Triforce energy if the Triforce is used for evil. Coming into contact with the Master Sword cancels out Ganondorf's power, cutting past his defenses and magic.

Let me ask you, do you think Kain or some other vampire could survive if they were stabbed while Moebius was nearby destroying their power? One vampire was already killed in this way, so I say no. Don't say anything about the Heart of Darkness either; Kain would die if he still had it. The reason Ganondorf's Triforce failed was because he had the equivalent of Moebius' staff embedded in his chest. He had no power, no durabilty, just sheer will that kept him standing, which is better than what Kain did.

Further, you misunderstand how the Triforce of Power even works. It, just like the other peices, works to passively increase his power and he only channels it to transform on occasion. He didn't channel it when he transformed in Twilight Princess, and he only channeled it that first time it was activated, after he was already stabbed.

And to answer your earlier question, yes, Ganondorf could survive getting his head removed. After all, he can survive without a body at all, so why would he need a head, or even a heart? Remember that little fact?

YouTube video

Without something *coughmasterswordcough* canceling his power, giant god form is as far as most anyone will get before Ganondorf drops a castle buster on their ass.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He still thinks all the Zelda games are separate universes, Neme.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And enlighten me, what AMAZING skills does Kain have in swordplay?

Not really.

Not really =|. Kain was stated as to having lost all his former spells and armor.

Except he used none of his powers in the fight, only the Reaver.

The games changed so of course they were't going back to this and he wasn't weaker at all the gameplay mechanics just changed entirely. Kain has always been the kind of guy to kill you with a sword so nothing has really changed.

He didn't use any of those powers to kill Moebius either in the first one so I guess he was weaker then according to your logic.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Many fans are idiots.

He was dead. 😐 He died, and the Triforce of Power was then granted to him.

This conversation is stupid anyway, Ganondorf merges the area they are fighting in into the Twilight Realm and instantly wins.

Yes, he accessed it's power and came back into the fight whether he came back to life or not is moot and doesn't matter. The fact is the power failed him against Link.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Let me make a comparison so that this is easier for you to understand. You are aware of what Moebius' staff does, correct? It cancels out vampiric energy. With it, he was able to kill either Janos or Vorador, I don't remember which, and put Kain on his knees before the Heart of Darkness was lost.

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff. It cancels out evil energy, as well as Triforce energy if the Triforce is used for evil. Coming into contact with the Master Sword cancels out Ganondorf's power, cutting past his defenses and magic.

Let me ask you, do you think Kain or some other vampire could survive if they were stabbed while Moebius was nearby destroying their power? One vampire was already killed in this way, so I say no. Don't say anything about the Heart of Darkness either; Kain would die if he still had it. The reason Ganondorf's Triforce failed was because he had the equivalent of Moebius' staff embedded in his chest. He had no power, no durabilty, just sheer will that kept him standing, which is better than what Kain did.

Further, you misunderstand how the Triforce of Power even works. It, just like the other peices, works to passively increase his power and he only channels it to transform on occasion. He didn't channel it when he transformed in Twilight Princess, and he only channeled it that first time it was activated, after he was already stabbed.

And to answer your earlier question, yes, Ganondorf could survive getting his head removed. After all, he can survive without a body at all, so why would he need a head, or even a heart? Remember that little fact?

YouTube video

Without something *coughmasterswordcough* canceling his power, giant god form is as far as most anyone will get before Ganondorf drops a castle buster on their ass.

Kain wouldn't have died because his role as the scion of balance would keep him alive which is more impressive than the power triforce bringing him back. Kain had the heart ripped out of him which made him the vampire he was and still was in the game whereas Dorf would be nothing without the triforce of power and couldn't survive without it.

If Dorf can easily survive without a head while all the theatrics when he was impaled? Are you saying he wasn't killed? Are you claiming he doesn't need to access the power triforce and that he can survive his head being torn off?

It's also pure speculation he was responsible for the castle destruction considering how powerful Midna was it was a result of both their powers against each other. When we saw Dorf's attacks we didn't see anything near in combat from him capable of easily destroying a castle in battle.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The other sword cut past his defenses and magic as well. Guess what he accessed the power triforce and came back which failed him the next time he tried to do so. If the guy was so above reproach he wouldn't have been impaled by another sword other than the master sword.

No, again. I have explained this before. First, the Sages made both of those swords, the Master Sword and the other one. The Master Sword was made at the direction of the goddesses. Second, they stabbed Ganondorf before he had the Triforce of Power. Hey, Kain was stabbed before he was a vampire, too, and he died, so that's the exact same thing.

Kain wouldn't have died because his role as the scion of balance would keep him alive which is more impressive than the power triforce bringing him back. Kain had the heart ripped out of him which made him the vampire he was and still was in the game whereas Dorf would be nothing without the triforce of power and couldn't survive without it.

Can you prove that one? We don't even know if Ganondorf died there, since he's come back from much worse. I could give you an example of Ganondorf being fine without the Triforce of Power, but alas, that's another game. When the Heart of Darkness was removed, Kain stayed a vampire. Not the same as Ganondorf, who would lose his power.

If Dorf can easily survive without a head while all the theatrics when he was impaled? Are you saying he wasn't killed? Are you claiming he doesn't need to access the power triforce and that he can survive his head being torn off?

I already said this. Being in contact with the Master Sword cancels his powers. If Ganondorf's head was removed, it would result in the giant god head form if he wasn't still touching the sword. When Ganondorf was stabbed, the sword remained in him and prevented his power from working. As long as the sword isn't touching him, he's fine.

It's also pure speculation he was responsible for the castle destruction considering how powerful Midna was it was a result of both their powers against each other. When we saw Dorf's attacks we didn't see anything near in combat from him capable of easily destroying a castle in battle.

He kicked Midna's ass six ways to the Sacred Realm. The castle exploded a long time after Midna's attack (you can see a pulse of energy that's colored the same as Midna's attack, but the castle explodes long after that ends), and then Ganondorf was there with her Fused Shadows. His power won, and he destroyed the castle.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What physical strength feats does the Lawd have?

Ganondorf physically contested with Link, who tossed Dangoro off the platforum they were on, Dangoro was able to destroy the chains that supported the huge arena with a jump.

Speed feats? Ganondorf at the very least is fast enough to clear several meters in less than a second, and can dodge Light Arrows with ease, even by jumping like thirty feet in the air.

Durability? Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power was able to tank a large number of Light Arrows, which are able to vaporise any other adversary.

How about destructive capability? Ganondorf has froze over cities, destroyed islands while the bulk of his magic was sealed by the Master Sword, Agahnim, a mere avatar of Ganon, was able to create natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and then quell them to pose as a hero to Hyrule. The scale of Ganondorf's power is further shown when he covered all of Hyrule, perhaps the world, cannot recall if specified, in a storm as a display of his power. He was also able to collapse his castle, all while near death.

What does the Lawd have now?

Contesting with the weaker Kain in the timeline is the Lords only physical feats iirc.

Thats been argued to death, theres no factual high value weight at all concerning these things and Ganon being able to fight Link still does not mean he is of equel or better strength.

Speed is useless when both can teleport and as actual combat fighting goes I have seen little of Dorf thats impressive, after watching the final fight he seems to fight like any normal man save his height bonus.

Your listing things we dont even see, half of those are not useful in an argument when you can never show them, charge times etc.

A sword that can kill Ganondorf in a strike, using powers that Dorf has zero protection against. That, and a teleport that will allow him to get close and escape from any and all "destruction" Dorf will attempt.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Picture this: The Master Sword = Moebius' staff.

As soon as you said this, you were wrong, the MS has no feats of doing this. The only implication is that the sword is more effective than a normal sword at harming evil. Thats it....its never brought an evil entity to its knees just by being in the vicinity, if it has youve not shown it. Ever played Diablo or World of warcraft? theres plenty of weapons with +10 extra damage to demons or another kind of creature so to put it in perspective, the MS has proven that it has +something to fighting evil creatures and considering Ganon seems to come back all the time, its not very good at the job.

Another thing thats interesting about the end of TP is that Ganon wails like a child in agony just by being impaled in the chest by the MS which has not proven that its got any godlike power, only that it slices better.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The guy at his weakest is stronger, faster, tougher than any mortal man by a country mile. The guy would crush at the olympics in basically every event. This is something everyone who has played just a game or two understands about Kain and his physical gifts as a vampire and he's the greatest of them all.

The games changed so of course they were't going back to this and he wasn't weaker at all the gameplay mechanics just changed entirely. Kain has always been the kind of guy to kill you with a sword so nothing has really changed.

He didn't use any of those powers to kill Moebius either in the first one so I guess he was weaker then according to your logic.

That's kewl. What else?

Except Umah went and stated Kain was weak and he lost his powers.

No. The fact that the Hylden Lord fought Kain using only the sword, which was gimped by the Nexus Stone, gave the Hylden Lord an easier win.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I haven't played them all yet....