Cross Genre Thread #5: Iron Spider-Man vs Kain (LoK) in NYC

Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

What's webbing going to do to Kain other than inconvenience him?

Yeah, these feats are exaggerated.

No, he isn't. You are wrong and Kain has abilities to knock him out of close range, can go into mist form and not be hit at all, cleave him at any point with his sword, and you yourself admit he is stronger than him. He's also more ruthless which also plays into Kain's benefit.

Spiderman can't avoid every attack that comes his way genius. I mean it's obvious you don't read spiderman and are basing this off a few feats where he avoided attacks. Laughs hard.

You said he wasn't fast his ability proves he's fast. Are you dense? I get that you never played the game but the proof is in the pudding he is portrayed as fast, strong, ruthless, athletic, and a monster yet you think he's weak, slow, stupid and can be killed by regular old humans.

It's Kain going really fast which you said he wasn't. You agreed it is proof and I pointed it out before astner and you cried about videos but if you played the game you shouldn't need to see any videos because a major ability should refresh your memory.

Spiderman can avoid the things Kain throws at him with the same ease I use to avoid a sleeping cat. The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound, and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. 😐

No, the ability proves he can make himself faster, and math shows that even with it on he's no speedster.

Fast anf "faster" are not the same. Kain being "faster" than his base self really isn't impressive since he has no speed feats, and isn't "fast" to begin with.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise. I quoted you the scans Parmaniac already gave, do you have any evidence that says Kain could take a punch like that?

What's webbing going to do to Kain other than inconvenience him?

Inconvenience = distraction. That's all it needs to do.

Yeah, these feats are exaggerated.

Train cars can weigh between 50 and 80 tons, which puts Spiderman quite on par with Kain, despite Kain's only strength claim being ABC logic that isn't very convincing. Kain's only strength feats are from Blood Omen 2 gameplay, which he uses telekinesis to help with. The only argument I've seen (in other threads) for Kain's strength is that he overpowered Raziel, who can push two blocks that were mathed at 55 tons each. The evidence used to say Kain overpowered him?

YouTube video

I don't really see it. Kain never pits his brute strength against Raziel once. Unless there are other feats I'm unaware of, Kain is stronger than a normal human (enough to tear out hearts and throw people) but he's never displayed a feat of strength rivaling Spiderman.

As for speed, Scream and Aster are currently covering this with maths, but I'll add that I've never seen anything truly above human from Kain speedwise. He might be faster than a human, but there's no way for me to tell how much. Whereas Spidermas is made of speed/reaction feats.

Durability I'll grant Kain, seeing as he did take some hits from Raziel. Of course, a weakened Raziel also ripped out Kain's heart. However, Spiderman in the scan has taken a propane tank explosion point blank without visible damage. The Iron-Spider suit is effectively bulletproof, too, and is explicitly heat resistent.

Spiderman still takes majority in my opinion.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. 😐

Originally posted by The Scenario
Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise.

Go by the hand books, they contain the official statistics and values and work as the "rules". Just because you moved your pawn 3 steps in a game of chess doesn't mean that pawns actually can move 3 steps.

Originally posted by Astner
Technically you have to take the conditions under consideration. Kain was weakened, the jump started from a stationary state and the ability Jump wasn't fully developed. His agility should be in the transonic range.

Spider-man never dodges lasers, and normally not even bullets. He evades it. He accomplishes this due to his spider-sense.

Right. Captain America has dodged lasers, after seeing them. Guess he must be faster than light, huh?

Go by the hand books, they contain the official statistics and values and work as the "rules". Just because you moved your pawn 3 steps in a game of chess doesn't mean that pawns actually can move 3 steps.

Feats > handbooks here, and handbooks are inaccurate alot of times. Spider-man consitently actually dodges bullets laser m not sure about seeing as normally those aren't around him though. Spider-man dodges shit loads of bullets way more often then he has trouble with them so he can easily.

Originally posted by Astner
Spider-man never dodges lasers, and normally not even bullets. He evades it. He accomplishes this due to his spider-sense.

I concede.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You just denied Spiderman is faster, nothing you say matters anymore. Obviously you're in the wrong thread.

Spiderman can avoid the things Kain throws at him with the same ease I use to avoid a sleeping cat. The fastest anyone's suggested kain could move is 40% of the speed of sound, and ye know wut? Spidey has feats of dodgine hails of bullets and lasers and shit. 😐

No, the ability proves he can make himself faster, and math shows that even with it on he's no speedster.

Fast anf "faster" are not the same. Kain being "faster" than his base self really isn't impressive since he [b]has no speed feats, and isn't "fast" to begin with. [/B]

Spiderman has also been hit by much slower attacks so quit basing this off of a few feats like he a laser is too slow for him at all times. This isn't how Spiderman is portrayed not like you would know or anything.

The math shut up about the math you nerd your calculations much like you are a joke.

You didn't play the game nor am I convinced at this point you know who Kain is. Take your ignorance out of here.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Raziel could put a fist through Kain's chest, and Spiderman is similar strengthwise. I quoted you the scans Parmaniac already gave, do you have any evidence that says Kain could take a punch like that?

Inconvenience = distraction. That's all it needs to do.

Train cars can weigh between 50 and 80 tons, which puts Spiderman quite on par with Kain, despite Kain's only strength claim being ABC logic that isn't very convincing. Kain's only strength feats are from Blood Omen 2 gameplay, which he uses telekinesis to help with. The only argument I've seen (in other threads) for Kain's strength is that he overpowered Raziel, who can push two blocks that were mathed at 55 tons each. The evidence used to say Kain overpowered him?

YouTube video

I don't really see it. Kain never pits his brute strength against Raziel once. Unless there are other feats I'm unaware of, Kain is stronger than a normal human (enough to tear out hearts and throw people) but he's never displayed a feat of strength rivaling Spiderman.

As for speed, Scream and Aster are currently covering this with maths, but I'll add that I've never seen anything truly above human from Kain speedwise. He might be faster than a human, but there's no way for me to tell how much. Whereas Spidermas is made of speed/reaction feats.

Durability I'll grant Kain, seeing as he did take some hits from Raziel. Of course, a weakened Raziel also ripped out Kain's heart. However, Spiderman in the scan has taken a propane tank explosion point blank without visible damage. The Iron-Spider suit is effectively bulletproof, too, and is explicitly heat resistent.

Spiderman still takes majority in my opinion.

Kain turns into mist. Boom. Laughs.

Kain isn't trying to kill Raziel he calmly tosses him aside but never once is out to murder him. The only time Raziel gets the better of him is when Kain lets his guard down due to Raziel being absorbed into the sword.

Why is Raziel weakened there? Where do you come up with this tuff mr. guy who has never played a blood omen game.

Kain kills Spiderman, 10/10.

The rest of your post is your usual Kain wank, it's all been dealt with before but this:

I just said even if that is the case Kain has enough powers and is quick enough for it not to be a huge advantage. He also has the ability to forcechoke him and blast him out of the near vicinity when he gets close by.

I posted:

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
My God, you are hopeless.

Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain? Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again. Plus Kain has limmited magic and Spidey has great stamina.

You responded:

No, he isn't. You are wrong and Kain has abilities to knock him out of close range, can go into mist form and not be hit at all, cleave him at any point with his sword, and you yourself admit he is stronger than him. He's also more ruthless which also plays into Kain's benefit.

See where you say "no he isn't"?
I've also proven why Kain cannot do the things you're claiming. Spiderman is too fast, and he can escape. :]

Thank you for wasting my time, it's been fun. 😉

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The rest of your post is your usual Kain wank, it's all been dealt with before but this:

I will respond to, because it's a lie.

I posted:

You responded:

See where you say "no he isn't"?
I've also proven why Kain cannot do the things you're claiming. Spiderman is too fast, and he can escape. :]

Thank you for wasting my time, it's been fun. 😉

When did you prove that these are his abilities Kain can go to mist form any time he wants while Spiderman just has to sit there and make wisecracks until he materializes again. Guess what force choke he's dead.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he gets close, mist or a tk blast. He can't harm him in mist form. Are you going to ask for a video showing him in mist form now?

When did you prove that these are his abilities Kain can go to mist form any time he wants while Spiderman just has to sit there and make wisecracks until he materializes again. Guess what force choke he's dead.

Kain can temporarily turn into mist, and cannot do anythign else while in this form, he's harmless, and he can't stay that way forever, he also doesn[t have the reaction time to use this to avoid an attack, and a punch from Spidey will definitely throw him off balance, making for an easy follow up.

Force choke? lol. Right.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
IF Spidey gets close he'll polant his fist between Kain's eyes before Kain can react, because, I say it again, [b]Kain has no reaction or speed feats.

Kain can temporarily turn into mist, and cannot do anythign else while in this form, he's harmless, and he can't stay that way forever, he also doesn[t have the reaction time to use this to avoid an attack, and a punch from Spidey will definitely throw him off balance, making for an easy follow up.

Force choke? lol. Right. [/B]

He can put considerable distance and forcechoke him to death. he can also kill him with his sword.

So now Spiderman can resist his forcechoke, right?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see him react to raziel quite easily. Spiderman isn't this fast nor does he fight to kill. You do know they fight in character, right? Of course you don't.

He can put considerable distance and forcechoke him to death. he can also kill him with his sword.

So now Spiderman can resist his forcechoke, right?

No, he can't Spiderman is faster, Spiderman will not be caught by TK, and if he is, Spiderman will escape TK, and Kain is FAR too slow to hit Spiderman with his sword.

Don't have to resist something you're not caught in, also, Spiderman's more durable than a normal man by far, and I can't recall Kain ever "force choking" anyone. 🙂

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raziel has no speed feats, Spiderman does. Can you show me a scan of Spiderman refusing to punch say.. Morlun? 😐 Spiderman punches things. That's in character. Hell, he's even punched good guys before.

No, he can't Spiderman is faster, Spiderman will not be caught by TK, and if he is, Spiderman will escape TK, and Kain is FAR too slow to hit Spiderman with his sword.

Don't have to resist something you're not caught in, also, Spiderman's more durable than a normal man by far, and I can't recall Kain ever "force choking" anyone. 🙂

Spiderman holds back a lot otherwise he'd kill a lot. Do you understand he is a good guy and good guys don't typically punch villains heads off?

How will he escape if it he is choking and unable to move?

So he never force choked Moebius? Should I mail my old lok games in the mail so you can see what this guy is really capable of.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The math shut up about the math you nerd your calculations much like you are a joke.

Don't flame, please.

Kain can also rip out Spiderman's heart it's about contesting this not trying to talk reason with Raziel and letting your guard down when he reaches in and does do. Kain also survived it, sport.

Kain isn't fast enough to rip Spiderman's heart out, nor has he displayed enough strength to be able to get through the Iron Spider armor, which is shown to block bullets. And if you remember, Spiderman himself can tank a propane gas explosion.

Kain turns into mist. Boom. Laughs.

"Laughs"?

Kain has to come out of mist form to do anything, which Spidey can predict and intercept. Boom.

Kain isn't trying to kill Raziel he calmly tosses him aside but never once is out to murder him. The only time Raziel gets the better of him is when Kain lets his guard down due to Raziel being absorbed into the sword.

Thanks for proving my point, here. Kain hasn't displayed strength approaching even 1 ton of force. Until Kain actually lifts something that heavy, you can't claim he's that strong. If you have evidence of Kain proving his strength, that's great. You just need to show us, or at least cite a game and a scene so I can go and find it so I can show us, since I know you're adverse to posting evidence.

Why is Raziel weakened there? Where do you come up with this tuff mr. guy who has never played a blood omen game.

I may not have played the games, but I am in fact capable of doing research on a character. For instance, I know that when Raziel was tearing out Kain's heart, he was being absorbed by the Reaver. To repeat that, Raziel's soul was in the process of being consumed by the Reaver and he was still able to peirce Kain and rip out his heart.

See here:
YouTube video

The scene begins at 8:15 in the video. At 8:35 Raziel is on his knees and actually begins fading, quite obviously weakened. At 8:47, Raziel plunges his claw into Kain's chest and removes his heart, at which point the absorpsion stops.

Again, just because I don't play it doesn't mean I can't do a little research.

Kain kills Spiderman, 10/10.

I honestly don't see it. Spidey wins 7/10 by virtue of being faster and stronger, if not just as powerful.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Don't flame, please.

Kain isn't fast enough to rip Spiderman's heart out, nor has he displayed enough strength to be able to get through the Iron Spider armor, which is shown to block bullets. And if you remember, Spiderman himself can tank a propane gas explosion.

"Laughs"?

Kain has to come out of mist form to do anything, which Spidey can predict and intercept. Boom.

Thanks for proving my point, here. Kain hasn't displayed strength approaching even 1 ton of force. Until Kain actually lifts something that heavy, you can't claim he's that strong. If you have evidence of Kain proving his strength, that's great. You just need to show us, or at least cite a game and a scene so I can go and find it so I can show us, since I know you're adverse to posting evidence.

I may not have played the games, but I am in fact capable of doing research on a character. For instance, I know that when Raziel was tearing out Kain's heart, he was being absorbed by the Reaver. To repeat that, Raziel's soul was in the process of being consumed by the Reaver and he was still able to peirce Kain and rip out his heart.

See here:
YouTube video

The scene begins at 8:15 in the video. At 8:35 Raziel is on his knees and actually begins fading, quite obviously weakened. At 8:47, Raziel plunges his claw into Kain's chest and removes his heart, at which point the absorpsion stops.

Again, just because I don't play it doesn't mean I can't do a little research.

I honestly don't see it. Spidey wins 7/10 by virtue of being faster and stronger, if not just as powerful.

If Spiderman leaves the opening he can have his heart ripped out though not likely if Spiderman is fighting back.

Kain can separate from him and then forcehoke him to death. Boom, it's over.

Blood Omen 2 shows he's strong enough to rip through plates of armor and pull out hearts but if you feel that's what you are capable of and that this does not show strength then that's on you.

Answer me this can anyone on this planet rip out someone's heart from their chest? Does this suggest superhuman strength?

Kain aided him in resisting the process. He wasn't being pulled in nor did Kain want this to occur so he wasn't weakened you just make up conjecture with no real proof just asinine theories.

Kain has the abilities, the attitude, and the strength to dominate Spiderman and he does whether it's up close or across the room.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what i fhe can he isn't tanking being deprived of oxygen nor is he surviving the soulreaver which cleaves him in two with a simple swipe.

Again, Spiderman is too fast for Kain to hit. There are multiple feats in scans that prove this. If you disagree, can you please prove that Kain is fast enough to hit him? So far Kain hasn't proven this. Can you prove that the Reaver can peirce the armor?

If Spiderman leaves the opening he can have his heart ripped out though not likely if Spiderman is fighting back.

What? I'm not sure what you're responding to, or saying for that matter.

Kain can separate from him and then forcehoke him to death. Boom, it's over.

Can Kain use telekinesis while in mist form? Again, the moment Kain becomes tangible Spidey can hit him, unless he mists again and just prolongs it. Is he going to fight or run away? Also, Spiderman is fast enough to avoid telekinesis, and Kain hasn't proven fast enough to catch him.

Blood Omen 2 shows he's strong enough to rip through plates of armor and pull out hearts but if you feel that's what you are capable of and that this does not show strength then that's on you.

Yes, Kain is stronger than a normal human. However, breaking through medieval armor is not even a 1 ton strength feat, nor is it enough to get through the Iron Spider suit. Kain's strength is maybe above peak human to very low superhuman. Does he have anything above heart ripping?

Answer me this can anyone on this planet rip out someone's heart from their chest? Does this suggest superhuman strength?

I don't know. It is superhuman, I admit that. I'm simply saying that despite being superhuman, it simply isn't good enough to take Spiderman down, especially in his armor.

Kain aided him in resisting the process. He wasn't being pulled in nor did Kain want this to occur so he wasn't weakened you just make up conjecture with no real proof just asinine theories.

Look back to 8:35 in the video. Raziel is on his knees, and is fading from existence. Do you see this? Yes, Kain didn't want it to happen, but that didn't stop it, did it? It was still happening, and Raziel was still weakened to the point of being unable to stand up. All I'm saying is that Kain doesn't have much durability.

Kain has the abilities, the attitude, and the strength to dominate Spiderman and he does whether it's up close or across the room.

Can you prove this? Direct me to some feats that put him above Spiderman, if you are aware of any. Please?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This I legitimately do not do intentionally, it's actually kind of reflexive, and I apologise if I offended you.

Durability feats? uhuh

Also, unkillable by way of PIS, sorta like how Ganondorf has plot device immortality unless you hit him with a specific sword. Common in video games, was under the impression such things aren't allowed, but meh, even with it, Spidey can still KO.

Oh, it'd work, if he could catch Spider-Man, Kain's TK is not omni-prestent he needs to actually focus on his target and grab them.

There's plenty of ways for Spiderman to dodge it, he's fought enemies with TK before. He can also escape TK if he is caught, and it does not give Kain 10/10, because it's not an instant win, at all.

He needs to:
1. catch spidey,
2. hold him and hope he doesn't escape,
3. actually tag spidey with something while managing 2, and Kain is not a speedster.

Let me put this bluntly.
His slow also slows Kain slightly and even if it didn't, Spidey would still be able to avoid any melee attacks, and when Spidey steps farther away, he's back at full speed. Spiderman's defense is his own speed and precog, the time aura slow is not as pronounced as you seem to think. O-o

It does not make dodging Spider-Man's attacks easy at all because [b]Kain has no reaction feats at all. Not a single one to his name. Also, there's a Cutscene in defiance where Kain's teleport takes over a second to execute, his dimensional teleport, a gameplay only spell which is slow enough for normal people to react to, I repeat, inside normal human reaction time, let alone a guy with precog, is no issue, and Kain can't do it more than once, his magic is not infinite. Spidey's dodged things alot faster and more difficult to avoid than Kain's sword.

This is not spite at all, you're not giving Spider-man credit, while seeming to assume Kain has the speed to keep up with him. Nothing supports he can. Spidey can KO Kain pretty easily, and New York is his play ground. 😐 [/B]

Dont get me wrong, Im one of the biggest Spider-man fans around here to the point where few members hate me and call me a fanboy. And all because I always give Spidey the credit he deserves going by his feats, but in this particular fight in my opinion he's over his head.

I see what you mean but it's not like that with Kain. He's not unkillable because he's some final boss that can't be killed with ordinary weapon. It's not PIS. He just cant be killed. Even the Elder God, the one that has the power of life and death confirmed that he (or anyone else for that matter) can't kill Kain.

In order for the tk to work all he needs is for the target to be visible. He doesn't need to hit the target with it. Sure Pete moves faster than human eye reacts on occasions but I dont see him blitzing a teleporter with so many powers and abilities, also Kain isn't human, so.. I dont see a reason for tk to fail. And Kain wont have trouble stabbing Spider-man while holding him with tk. He doesn't need to keep focusing on the target in order to hold it. He can move, fight etc while holding an opponent in tk lock.

Also there's the mind control option. Peter has been controled on many occasions. And although he always struggles against it normally it takes outside help or some time (an issue or 2) for him to finally break free and he wont get the time here. His tp resistance isnt THAT good.

Sorry I should've been more specific. He has different kinds of teleportation, the one he used in the cutscene isnt that fast. But when he uses dimensional teleportation in the game its actually to fast for humans to react, it enables him to blitz like 3-4 opponents within half a second. If that's not enough to tag Pete I dont know what is. He's been cought off guard by teleporters before because of his CIS.

CIS is another problem. Pete tends to understimate his opponents and give them the time to attack while Kain would go for the kill without hesitation.

Im in no way understimating Spider-man. It's just he's out of his league here.
- We have Spider-man who's crazy quick, has precog, webbing and is very strong.
- And we have Kain who is superhumanly strong, can turn to mist, teleport, has time and dimentional manipulation, weather manipulation, can create hurricanes, lightinings etc cold and fire based attacks, a powerful TK, mindcontrol, can rip one's soul out of his body and is pretty much unkillable.
I just dont see how this is a fair fight even concidering Pete's speed and precog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The math shut up about the math you nerd.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Again, Spiderman is too fast for Kain to hit. There are multiple feats in scans that prove this. If you disagree, can you please prove that Kain is fast enough to hit him? So far Kain hasn't proven this. Can you prove that the Reaver can peirce the armor?

What? I'm not sure what you're responding to, or saying for that matter.

Can Kain use telekinesis while in mist form? Again, the moment Kain becomes tangible Spidey can hit him, unless he mists again and just prolongs it. Is he going to fight or run away? Also, Spiderman is fast enough to avoid telekinesis, and Kain hasn't proven fast enough to catch him.

Yes, Kain is stronger than a normal human. However, breaking through medieval armor is not even a 1 ton strength feat, nor is it enough to get through the Iron Spider suit. Kain's strength is maybe above peak human to very low superhuman. Does he have anything above heart ripping?

I don't know. It is superhuman, I admit that. I'm simply saying that despite being superhuman, it simply isn't good enough to take Spiderman down, especially in his armor.

Look back to 8:35 in the video. Raziel is on his knees, and is fading from existence. Do you see this? Yes, Kain didn't want it to happen, but that didn't stop it, did it? It was still happening, and Raziel was still weakened to the point of being unable to stand up. All I'm saying is that Kain doesn't have much durability.

Can you prove this? Direct me to some feats that put him above Spiderman, if you are aware of any. Please?

We've seen kain rip through armor while at his weakest wit his bare hands yet you claim he can't make it through armor with his badass sword when his strength is at its peak?

Yes, Spiderman can hit him while he is in physical form but so can Kain. Kain is tough enough to take Spiderman's best and has already proven he can survive having his heart ripped out.

If he can easily do so with his bare hands at his weakest he can obviously do so with this sword at his strongest. I mean play the games first before even debating the subject.

So you believe this feat is superhuman just not enough to beat Spiderman despite not playing the games. You're ignorant on the matter that's all.

He wasn't weakened at all he was just susceptible to being drawn into the sword. You are making up more unsupported theories.

You need to play the games themselves before debating subjects you obviously don't have the knowledge about either way.

Originally posted by Estacado
Reported.

So, everyone who matters agrees Spidey wins?