the only game related to Kain i ever played was Blood Omen 2 (I loved that game!)
But if I remember correctly...Whenever Kain used the Jump Power, wasn't he so fast that everything else/people stood still? Giving him the ability to pounce from far away.
This is straight from memory of like 8 or 7 yrs ago, correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Spiderman is faster, more agile, with betterrelfexesreflexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain?
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again.
When he latter battle Raziel he makes good use of his upgraded version where he chains Raziel helplessly to the air before mashing him into a wall or into the sword in his hand.
Kain's description of Kinetic Statis: "Reinforcing my brute telekinetic abilities with exact technique I am able to temporarily shackle my enemies in mid air with chains of force."
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Plus Kain haslimmitedlimited magic and Spidey has great stamina.
Originally posted by Etna
the only game related to Kain i ever played was Blood Omen 2 (I loved that game!)
Originally posted by Etna
But if I remember correctly...Whenever Kain used the Jump Power, wasn't he so fast that everything else/people stood still? Giving him the ability to pounce from far away.
This is straight from memory of like 8 or 7 yrs ago, correct me if I'm wrong.
Im a huge Spider-man fan but have to admit that this is spite. There's no way Pete wins this. Kain is pretty much unkillable. Can tk choke Pete or freeze time and rip Pete's sould out. SM wont be able to hurt Kain in his mist form. And when Kain uses teleportation (at least that's how its shown in the gameplay) he blitzes opponents Nightcrawler style. The guy's just too powerfull.
Jump calculations
Since this isn't the final version of Jump I won't make any detailed calculation (taking wind resitance into consideration through integration).
Feel free to comment or ask questions.
Since path is a parabola with the height approx. 1 m and the length approx. 30 m, we start of by splitting the main vector into two composant orthagonal to the map-line and then apply basic geometry.
Or roughly 40% of the speed of sound in air at sea level with normal humidity.
Originally posted by AstnerKain legitimately has no speed feats. 😐 Spidey is practicly made of them. Also, what is this suddenly claiming Raziel's a casual bullet timer nonsense? The only instance you've shown of him even encountering a bullet is optional gameplay against an opponent with a primitive gun who made a single shot. O-o
First off, he's not faster for certain. He's in the league of Captain America and Daredevil, which both are significantly slower than sound according to the hand books--fact is, for Daredevil to react to something faster than sound would be to react to something he can't sense--while Raziel can dodge gunfire and his foes can react to the sound glyph (sound wave). Now it's fair to give Spider-man a 10-20% speed advantage plus the spider-sense so that he can maneuver that speed properly but as soon as he hits can thoughtlessly he's going to get caught.A push would be a foolish move on Kain's part. The reason he pushed away Raziel was to gain time, he said it himself, and I quote: "You nearly had me, Raziel. But this is not where, or how, it ends. Fate promises more twists before this drama unfolds completely", and that was before any Kinetic Statis upgrades.
When he latter battle Raziel he makes good use of his upgraded version where he chains Raziel helplessly to the air before mashing him into a wall or into the sword in his hand.
Kain's description of Kinetic Statis: "Reinforcing my brute telekinetic abilities with exact technique I am able to temporarily shackle my enemies in mid air with chains of force."
The great stamina will only come to use if Spider-man survives Kain's magic. Which due to its unlikely nature is the main issue at hand.
The worst of the lot. Blood Omen is the greatest, followed by either Soul Reaver or Soul Reaver II, further followed by Defience and finally Blood Omen II. It's a great series.
Probably just an effect. It's fully possible (and rather easy) to make a calculation for the initial velocity required to leap a given distance given the maximum height and length of the parabel.
Kain needs to gesture, and Spidey's got precog, and good reaction time, he could probably aim dodge it even without his spider-sense.
Spiderman canand will make his approach probably while harrassing Kain with webbing. (spell casting might be heard if he can't see or his arm is stuck to his side, coudl also cause problems for actually trying to fight spiderman upclose.)
I don't see how this is an issue. Kain's spells are largely featless outside of the TK used on Raziel, so even if he lands a lucky one, Spider-man will likely be able to continue the fight.
Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuh
Originally posted by SamZED
Im a huge Spider-man fan but have to admit that this is spite. There's no way Pete wins this. Kain is pretty much unkillable. Can tk choke Pete or freeze time and rip Pete's sould out. SM wont be able to hurt Kain in his mist form. And when Kain uses teleportation (at least that's how its shown in the gameplay) he blitzes opponents Nightcrawler style. The guy's just too powerfull.
Good luck to Kain catching pete and if he does, he's never TK choked anyone half as durable as spiderman, and Spiderman has a way out. Also, time freeze?, WAITAMINUTE. Now you're making shit up. The closest thing Kain has is a time aura whichactually slows Kain down slightly as well, (Math was done in games v.s.) and it's not a very potent one. If you're referring to incapacitate, there's no freakin' way he could ever, ever hit Spidey with that. 😐
Kain's mist form is only temporary, and Kain lacks the reaction time to outfight Spiderman, and his teleport is crap. 😐 Hell, it takes most of his magic to use dimensional teleport, and it's actually quite slow, math shows it's within human reaction time, Spider-man with his precog? It's just a waste of effort by Kain. 😐
Kain really is not as powerful as you think, and I believe this is a very good fight. Still leaning to spidey takin' majority, but this is not a stomp in either direction.
Originally posted by AstnerBased solely on the fact you post evidence and just did math, I think I like you. 😊
Since this isn't the final version of Jump I won't make any detailed calculation (taking wind resitance into consideration through integration).Feel free to comment or ask questions.
Since path is a parabola with the height approx. 1 m and the length approx. 30 m, we start of by splitting the main vector into two composant orthagonal to the map-line and then apply basic geometry.
Or roughly 40% of the speed of sound in air at sea level with normal humidity.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeI think I recall him avoiding a veritable hail of gunfire at the beginning of civil war?
Captain America is a bullet timer, so you guys know. Pretty sure Spidey is easily above him as far as reaction timing goes. Then you add in the Spider Sense.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, what is this suddenly claiming Raziel's a casual bullet timer nonsense? The only instance you've shown of him even encountering a bullet is optional gameplay against an opponent with a primitive gun who made a single shot.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kain needs to gesture, and Spidey's got precog, and good reaction time, he could probably aim dodge it even without his spider-sense.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Spiderman can and will make his approach probably whileharrassingharassing Kain with webbing. (spell casting might be heard if he can't see or his arm is stuck to his side,coudlcould also cause problems for actually trying to fight spiderman upclose.)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuh
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Based solely on the fact you post evidence and just did math, I think I like you. 😊
Originally posted by Astner
Optional gameplay? It's one of many enemies, it's a legitimate character design with intentions. You further neglected to mention the Sound Glyph that was brought up, and how certain are able to react to it.As shown against Mobius, Kain can make use of both his hands simply by pointing. Even Spider-man would have trouble--if capable of--escaping that.
Webbing will be the least of Kain's worries, Mist Form and Immolate are each perfect counters.
Is that why you didn't correct mine?
Then I'm doing something wrong.
Spidey's dodged things much more difficult than that with less que to do so before. 😐
Kain cannot maintain mist form, and has no reaction feats to say he can hit it before the webbing gets him. Sure, the web would fall off after, but Spidey can just anticipate where he'll be and lay down a Haymaker while Kain's not doing anything offensive.
Laziness, mostly.
I SEE HOW IT IS. 🙁
Also, would distance/time for speed not have been easier? 😐
Originally posted by ScreamPasteYou know, you really should try debating without acting like a jerk. If you disagree with my post just say so, ill gladly hear you out and respond. No need for the "😐" smilies and "lolwut/shit" stuff.
Also, correcting the typoes of a tired man is bad form. uhuh
Lolwut? Kain is very easy to KO and IIRC Unkillable due to PIS wasn't counted in forum battles?Good luck to Kain catching pete and if he does, he's never TK choked anyone half as durable as spiderman, and Spiderman has a way out. Also, [b]time freeze?
, WAITAMINUTE. Now you're making shit up. The closest thing Kain has is a time aura whichactually slows Kain down slightly as well, (Math was done in games v.s.) and it's not a very potent one. If you're referring to incapacitate, there's no freakin' way he could ever, ever hit Spidey with that. 😐Kain's mist form is only temporary, and Kain lacks the reaction time to outfight Spiderman, and his teleport is crap. 😐 Hell, it takes most of his magic to use dimensional teleport, and it's actually quite slow, math shows it's within human reaction time, Spider-man with his precog? It's just a waste of effort by Kain. 😐
Kain really is not as powerful as you think, and I believe this is a very good fight. Still leaning to spidey takin' majority, but this is not a stomp in either direction. [/B]
Kain is not easy to ko, in fact he's hard to ko. And all Spidey got is his fists and webs that can be easilly avoid with teleportation or mist form. And being unkillable for whatever reason isn't against the rules, dont know where you got that from.
Your statement that Kain's tk for some reason wont work on Spider-man holds no ground tbh and is purely speculation as Kain's tk has never failed him before. Also it seems you're under the wrong impression that Kain needs to "hit" SM with it for it to work, well its not the case, its not a projectile that travels through the air. There's no way for Spider-man to dodge this kind of attack. This option alone gives Kain 10/10 in a forum fight. "luck" has nothing to do with it.
Ok, not "freeze", "slow down" my mistake. Doesnt change a thing though. He can slow Pete down to a crawl and finish him off. Easy as that. Spider-man has no defence against that kind of attack.
"temporary" or not doesnt matter, it makes dodging Spider-man an easy task as Spider-man can't hit mist. And Kain can teleport fast as hell actually with him appearing behind someone's back and instantly slicing him to pieces, then appearing behind 3 other opponents and doing the same. SM might dodge it once or twice thanks to ss but not forever.
This is definitely spite. SM got his speed and fists that wont help against an opponent that can turn to mist, teleport, has tk and can slow down time. While Kain has every possible advantage here. I dont see how Spider-man could take any wins at all, especially CIS on.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Whoa did this thread suddenly get personal?
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, would distance/time for speed not have been easier? 😐
You know, you really should try debating without acting like a jerk. If you disagree with my post just say so, ill gladly hear you out and respond. No need for the "" smilies and "lolwut/shit" stuff.This I legitimately do not do intentionally, it's actually kind of reflexive, and I apologise if I offended you.
Originally posted by SamZED
You know, you really should try debating without acting like a jerk. If you disagree with my post just say so, ill gladly hear you out and respond. No need for the "😐" smilies and "lolwut/shit" stuff.Kain is not easy to ko, in fact he's hard to ko. And all Spidey got is his fists and webs that can be easilly avoid with teleportation or mist form. And being unkillable for whatever reason isn't against the rules, dont know where you got that from.
Your statement that Kain's tk for some reason wont work on Spider-man holds no ground tbh and is purely speculation as Kain's tk has never failed him before. Also it seems you're under the wrong impression that Kain needs to "hit" SM with it for it to work, well its not the case, its not a projectile that travels through the air. There's no way for Spider-man to dodge this kind of attack. This option alone gives Kain 10/10 in a forum fight. "luck" has nothing to do with it.
Ok, not "freeze", "slow down" my mistake. Doesnt change a thing though. He can slow Pete down to a crawl and finish him off. Easy as that. Spider-man has no defence against that kind of attack.
"temporary" or not doesnt matter, it makes dodging Spider-man an easy task as Spider-man can't hit mist. And Kain can teleport fast as hell actually with him appearing behind someone's back and instantly slicing him to pieces, then appearing behind 3 other opponents and doing the same. SM might dodge it once or twice thanks to ss but not forever.
This is definitely spite. SM got his speed and fists that wont help against an opponent that can turn to mist, teleport, has tk and can slow down time. While Kain has every possible advantage here. I dont see how Spider-man could take any wins at all, especially CIS on.
Durability feats? uhuh
Also, unkillable by way of PIS, sorta like how Ganondorf has plot device immortality unless you hit him with a specific sword. Common in video games, was under the impression such things aren't allowed, but meh, even with it, Spidey can still KO.
Oh, it'd work, if he could catch Spider-Man, Kain's TK is not omni-prestent he needs to actually focus on his target and grab them.
There's plenty of ways for Spiderman to dodge it, he's fought enemies with TK before. He can also escape TK if he is caught, and it does not give Kain 10/10, because it's not an instant win, at all.
He needs to:
1. catch spidey,
2. hold him and hope he doesn't escape,
3. actually tag spidey with something while managing 2, and Kain is not a speedster.
Let me put this bluntly.
His slow also slows Kain slightly and even if it didn't, Spidey would still be able to avoid any melee attacks, and when Spidey steps farther away, he's back at full speed. Spiderman's defense is his own speed and precog, the time aura slow is not as pronounced as you seem to think. O-o
It does not make dodging Spider-Man's attacks easy at all because Kain has no reaction feats at all. Not a single one to his name. Also, there's a Cutscene in defiance where Kain's teleport takes over a second to execute, his dimensional teleport, a gameplay only spell which is slow enough for normal people to react to, I repeat, inside normal human reaction time, let alone a guy with precog, is no issue, and Kain can't do it more than once, his magic is not infinite. Spidey's dodged things alot faster and more difficult to avoid than Kain's sword.
This is not spite at all, you're not giving Spider-man credit, while seeming to assume Kain has the speed to keep up with him. Nothing supports he can. Spidey can KO Kain pretty easily, and New York is his play ground. 😐
Originally posted by jalek moye
hmm i actually forgot that, the fact that this is all across new york makes this harder for Kain then it would be otherwise. And Spidey jumps around things alot in fights.
wouldn't that give spiderman an unfair advantage?
Another Question
Can't Kain control others to attack spiderman?
Or find some way to take advantage, maybe even use hostages
in fact, what is the rule of kain controling people? Can he control spiderman?
Originally posted by The ScenarioSpiderman can't put a fist through his skull. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.
He's not fast enough to use it before Spiderman puts a fist through his skull. Even if he could, Spiderman is quick enough to recover or get out of the way. Then likely cover Kain's face with webbing.And, if you aren't going to check and Scream isn't going to get the quote, I'll do it.
What's webbing going to do to Kain other than inconvenience him?
Yeah, these feats are exaggerated.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteNo, he isn't. You are wrong and Kain has abilities to knock him out of close range, can go into mist form and not be hit at all, cleave him at any point with his sword, and you yourself admit he is stronger than him. He's also more ruthless which also plays into Kain's benefit.
My God, you are hopeless.Spiderman is faster, more agile, with better relfexes, more mobility, ect, how could he NOT get close to Kain? Is Kain gonna TK push? Spidey's precog kicks in and he avoids, keeps coming before Kain can do it again. Plus Kain has limmited magic and Spidey has great stamina.
😆 Directing you to read the thread is a concession? No. The feats have been posted, you simply choose to not look at them.
An ability =/= a feat. Berserk is a dark gift that amps him slightly. It is not a speed feat, a reflex feat, it's just Kain going berserk. Also, lol@ you still trying to insinuating I haven't played. Can you show me a feat? No? HEEEY, maybe you haven't played it. 😐 You can't seem to list any feats from the game you claim to have played. haermm
Spiderman can't avoid every attack that comes his way genius. I mean it's obvious you don't read spiderman and are basing this off a few feats where he avoided attacks. Laughs hard.
You said he wasn't fast his ability proves he's fast. Are you dense? I get that you never played the game but the proof is in the pudding he is portrayed as fast, strong, ruthless, athletic, and a monster yet you think he's weak, slow, stupid and can be killed by regular old humans.
It's Kain going really fast which you said he wasn't. You agreed it is proof and I pointed it out before astner and you cried about videos but if you played the game you shouldn't need to see any videos because a major ability should refresh your memory.
what version of the soul reaver is used in this contest? I'm assuming it's the physical blade, and not raziel's wraith blade. Even then, the capabilities of the Soul Reaver differ from game to game...I think this needs to be established first of all.
Also...why the obssession over BO2 Kain? That's arguably the weakest incarnation of Kain among all the games, and BO2 isn't even part of the main continuity; it's an alternate timeline that was made possible by events in Soul Reaver 2. As far as "canon" Kain goes...he's the one in Defiance, not BO2.