Originally posted by Mindset
Of course he can blanket an area with fire...wtf.No, they really don't. He is way too fast and mobile to be hit while flying. No, it was retarded. Fire has a much wider range of aoe than a tennis ball. Yea, he can, he can continually shoot fire, that's all it takes.
Come on, guys...
If torch is "way too fast and mobile" then the vamps should be even harder to hit. The vamps are actual speedsters, something that Johnny can't claim. Plus those thrown rocks aren't exactly slow... might be even faster than johnny's fireballs. But the biggest problem johhny will be facing is that there is more than 1 cullen who'll be trying to hit him whereas he's only 1. There is what, 8 cullens now? 1 to take care of reed, 1 to keep thing busy, 2 to knockout sue and you're left with 4 to play target practice with johnny.
Originally posted by the ninjakI know I sure like beating you like a rented mules.
It's been a pleasure as always.
Originally posted by FrothByteSomeone who can maneuver at high speeds flying is more mobile than someone who can run on the ground at high speeds. Lol at your distribution of the Cullens.
If torch is "way too fast and mobile" then the vamps should be even harder to hit. The vamps are actual speedsters, something that Johnny can't claim. Plus those thrown rocks aren't exactly slow... might be even faster than johnny's fireballs. But the biggest problem johhny will be facing is that there is more than 1 cullen who'll be trying to hit him whereas he's only 1. There is what, 8 cullens now? 1 to take care of reed, 1 to keep thing busy, 2 to knockout sue and you're left with 4 to play target practice with johnny.
Originally posted by Mindset
I know I sure like beating you like a rented mules.Someone who can maneuver at high speeds flying is more mobile than someone who can run on the ground at high speeds. Lol at your distribution of the Cullens.
Someone who can run at high speeds AND has superhuman reflexes is harder to hit than someone who can fly at high speeds but only has normal reflexes.
What's wrong with my distribution? Thing isn't fast enough to hit any of the Cullens, so it would only take 1 to tie him up. Not knock him out maybe, but just to distract him. Same with Reed. He isn't fast enough to hit any of the Cullens, and although I think he has pretty good impact resistance, I don't recall him being resistant to cuts and punctures... in which case a twivamp bites his throat off.
Plus Edward and Alice should be able to pretty much take out Sue. That leaves 4 for Johnny. Or you can swap if you want. Only Edward needs to take on Torch as he can read Johnny's mind and can easily take him out. That leaves 5 for Sue to handle.
Originally posted by Mindset
Johnny doesn't have normal reflexes, have you even seen the movies?Thing could engage as many of the vamps he wants, if he sees them trying to attack Johnny he will go after them. They can't stop him.
How would they get past Sue's shields?
Yep I've seen the movies. Johnny looks like he has athletic reflexes, but nothing superhuman. Unless you can show me an example where he displayed superhuman reflexes and quickness? Definitely nothing on the level of the Twivamps.
As for Thing, you've got to be kidding right? He can run after as many of them as he wants... he's not catching any of them. How exactly is he going to "engage" something he can't catch?
As for Sue's shields, movie Sue showed that she needs to put a considerable amount of effort and concentration when she makes her shields. Alice and Edward will both be able to predict where she'll make her shields and will allow them to move away from it.
Originally posted by Mindset
Have you not seen him flying through the city?He doesn't need to catch them, just distract them from attacking Johnny.
That's not at all what the movies showed. In the second movie Sue couldn't definitely throw up shields with minimal effort.
Flying through the city is not the same as dodging incredibly fast projectiles. Even if Johnny did have some form of accelerated reflexes, do you really believe that he has faster reflexes than the vamps?
As for Sue, sure she can make her shields with minimal effort, but only if no one is resisting her shields. Everytime someone or something was resisting her shields she needed to put in effort in order to maintain it. You think the vamps are just going to sit there and allow her to shield them?
As for Thing, please tell me how exactly is he going to distract a bunch of fast moving vamps?
Look at him flying through the city, you can't do that with normal reflexes. They don't need to be faster than the vamps, just faster than what they throw.
Not really, and even when she had to put effort in then she still had great feats, so it doesn't really matter.
By throwing rocks and trees at them, the same thing they would do to Johnny.
Originally posted by Mindset
Look at him flying through the city, you can't do that with normal reflexes. They don't need to be faster than the vamps, just faster than what they throw.Not really, and even when she had to put effort in then she still had great feats, so it doesn't really matter.
By throwing rocks and trees at them, the same thing they would do to Johnny.
-Johnny flying through cities isn't comparative to trying to hit Twivamps within a forest.
He loses them amongst the trees.
-Sue can only either/
/protect herself or.
/try to contain a twivamp.
The second she attempts to contain a vampire she is open to getting her head punched in.
-Ben ain't doing anything to the Twivamps on the same level as they are doing to Johnny or the rest of the team. Get over it! Ben throwing rocks at Twivamps doesn't equal them throwing rocks at Johnny.
The Twivamps are too fast on their home ground. And if Johnny burns the area around the battleground. It's even easier for the Cullens to hide under the smoke and manipulate the situation at hand.
They don't need to breathe. They don't need to sleep. They are expert killers.
And with a member who has telepathy to know where one F4 memeber will be next the advantage is theirs....let alone a member who can see the immediate and foreseen future.
The Cullens win this.
Originally posted by the ninjakJohnny flying through cities shows he can dodge objects thrown at him, which was the point.
-Johnny flying through cities isn't comparative to trying to hit Twivamps within a forest.
He loses them amongst the trees.-Sue can only either/
/protect herself or.
/try to contain a twivamp.The second she attempts to contain a vampire she is open to getting her head punched in.
-Ben ain't doing anything to the Twivamps on the same level as they are doing to Johnny or the rest of the team. Get over it! Ben throwing rocks at Twivamps doesn't equal them throwing rocks at Johnny.
The Twivamps are too fast on their home ground. And if Johnny burns the area around the battleground. It's even easier for the Cullens to hide under the smoke and manipulate the situation at hand.
They don't need to breathe. They don't need to sleep. They are expert killers.
And with a member who has telepathy to know where one F4 memeber will be next the advantage is theirs....let alone a member who can see the immediate and foreseen future.The Cullens win this.
Wrong. She can make a shield big enough to do both. Iiirc, she can make shields while invisible as well.
He doesn't need to do it on the same level, all he needs to do is distract him, which can be easily done. Get over it.
Johnny solos, deal with it.
Originally posted by Mindset
Johnny flying through cities shows he can dodge objects thrown at him, which was the point.Wrong. She can make a shield big enough to do both. Iiirc, she can make shields while invisible as well.
He doesn't need to do it on the same level, all he needs to do is distract him, which can be easily done. Get over it.
Johnny solos, deal with it.
-Johnny flying at the speeds he has been shown to fly at won't be able to focus on vamps running at blitzspeeds through trees.
-She can only do one shield feat at once. Either protect herself or contain/protect another. If she goes invisible Edward can see her.
-No You Get Over It! Ben isn't throwing objects or influencing the environment on the same level as the Cullens family is. He might as well be a stationary Golem throwing objects into the wind. They are surrounded in forest.
-No Johnny doesn't solo. He may have feats of performing trajectories in short bursts in the sky. But he needs to slow down if he is to attempt to hit the Cullens. The Cullens don't burn unless their bodies are compromised and a burning forest won't effect them! It will aid them.
With Edward knowing where Johnny will be next, he and the team have knowledge of where he will fly to next. This gives the Cullens knowledge of Johnny's next location at all times.
Which is more than Johnny has because it is undisputed truth!
It's over!
Johnny goes down.
Sue goes down.
And the remaining 2 heroes are your only aces in your sleeve.
And they are fish in the barrel.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That's like asking me to prove to you that you can't fly, and until I provide proof that you can't fly, we have to assume that you CAN fly.
Wrong: I cannot prove that Edward can't read Sue's Mind because I cannot prove that negative ability of Edward's: that makes little sense for me to prove. The burden of proof is on you to prove positive attributes of characters.
As fact, we know that Edward cannot read through the mental shields of the only character in Twilight: Bella. She has a mental shield.
I'll answer this problem for you: you cannot prove that Edward can read through Sue's shield if she has it up. The only evidence we have is a mental shield cannot be read through by Edward, Aro, etc.
Unless the OP wants to say Sue's mental shield can be read through, we must err on the side that has the most supporting evidence: mental shields cannot be read through by Edward.
You tried but failed to shift the burden of proof. This is known as a dodge.
I'll ask again: prove that Edward can read Sue's mind through Sue's shield. The only evidence we have says he can't. You must now assert a positive for Edward's mind-reading abilities.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: I cannot prove that Edward can't read Sue's Mind because I cannot prove that negative ability of Edward's: that makes little sense for me to prove. The burden of proof is on you to prove positive attributes of characters.As fact, we know that Edward cannot read through the mental shields of the only character in Twilight: Bella. She has a mental shield.
I'll answer this problem for you: you cannot prove that Edward can read through Sue's shield if she has it up. The only evidence we have is a mental shield cannot be read through by Edward, Aro, etc.
Unless the OP wants to say Sue's mental shield can be read through, we must err on the side that has the most supporting evidence: mental shields cannot be read through by Edward.
You tried but failed to shift the burden of proof. This is known as a dodge.
I'll ask again: prove that Edward can read Sue's mind through Sue's shield. The only evidence we have says he can't. You must now assert a positive for Edward's mind-reading abilities.
When had Sue ever made a mental shield? You'te giving her powers she doesn't possess. Give me one instance where she was able to shield herself from a mental attack and i'll cede to your point.
Originally posted by the ninjak
And do the Cullens get Esme???I doubt the FF are gonna attempt to crush or burn a kid.
CIS is turned off by default unless otherwise stated by the OP.
Originally posted by Mindset
Look at him flying through the city, you can't do that with normal reflexes. They don't need to be faster than the vamps, just faster than what they throw.
I disagree. There are manned flight competitions where pilots have to fly through giant pylons in specific orders and it is simply insane what they do. The experience over 9Gs, at times. In fact, it looks as though the makers of the scene of Johnny flying was inspired but some of the same maneuvers they pull in these flight competitions (keep in mind that these planes are much larger than a human (obviously):
That brings up another point: Johnny can light a big field on fire, almost instantly. He lit the entire barge on fire nearly instantly. That should put to rest the idea that Johnny cannot quickly light a field on fire.
Originally posted by FrothByte
When had Sue ever made a mental shield? You'te giving her powers she doesn't possess. Give me one instance where she was able to shield herself from a mental attack and i'll cede to your point.
Thank you for clarifying that Susan possess no shield that she produces mentally.
What's this? She produces the shield mentally? And you have no evidence that Edward's mind reading powers can read through that shield?
If the shield was produced by a reflex action rather than with her brain, you might have a point. She doesn't so you don't.