Originally posted by D_Dude1210Yep. It also helps that he was actually trying to hurt Xenith as opposed to whinning "We were once a team blah blah blah" like he did with Norrin.
Yeah, the Xenith fight really puts the Surfer's current durability into show too. Even at full confidence (at the start) Nova was making Xenith bleed with his punches. While the Surfer took a direct hit at full power and shrugged it off like nothing.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Yeah, the Xenith fight really puts the Surfer's current durability into show too. Even at full confidence (at the start) Nova was making Xenith bleed with his punches.
Because the psionic dampener in his helmet shorted out his invulnerability temporarily. He says so in the scans.
And besides, Richard wasn't really trying to fight Surfer, and likely wasn't tapping close to the full Nova Force, like he did against Sphinx...
Originally posted by cdtmWe'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But I'm not ready to open that can of worms yet...
Because the psionic dampener in his helmet shorted out his invulnerability temporarily. He says so in the scans.And besides, Richard wasn't really trying to fight Surfer, and likely wasn't tapping close to the full Nova Force, like he did against Sphinx...
Originally posted by dmills
Yep. It also helps that he was actually trying to hurt Xenith as opposed to whinning "We were once a team blah blah blah" like he did with Norrin.
Not arguing about Nova's mindset. 😛
He DID give full gravimetric on each hand. Basically, full power. Meaning he wasn't holding back.
Don't think he was scared of actually hurting the Surfer that time. I think he felt that he had to give it his all just to get the Surfer's attention. 🙂
With so many lives on the line that time, I really don't see any reason for Nova to be holding anything back.
Originally posted by cdtm
Because the psionic dampener in his helmet shorted out his invulnerability temporarily. He says so in the scans.
The psionic dampener was introduced later on. At the start of the fight where Nova was whaling on Xenith, she was bleeding.
Hey! I'm prolly as big a Nova fan as you guys are. Tho, I really tend to set his power levels very much below that of the Surfer. Slightly below Gladiator level, too. Tho, admittedly, recently Norrin is being shown as being in a class on his own.
It's his fighting tactics (with the help of the Worldmind) that makes him so dangerous. Having the level of situational awareness he gets as well as a myriad of tactical resources available to him mid-combat is simply awesome. This coupled with the versatility of the Novaforce makes him a viable threat to any herald-level opponent.
Maaan, if Surfer had Worldmind with him, he'd be unstoppable...!
Worldmind: "Norrin, you noob, stop trying to energy blast him, shrink down, enter his brain and take him down from there!!!"
S'why he's now my fave character. Topping even Norrin and Thor.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Please don't misunderstand me! My point was about Nova always tending to whine when facing psuedo allies. On a normal day he ain't touching SS 😉
Not arguing about Nova's mindset. 😛He DID give full gravimetric on each hand. Basically, full power. Meaning he wasn't holding back.
Don't think he was scared of actually hurting the Surfer that time. I think he felt that he had to give it his all just to get the Surfer's attention. 🙂
With so many lives on the line that time, I really don't see any reason for Nova to be holding anything back.
The psionic dampener was introduced later on. At the start of the fight where Nova was whaling on Xenith, she was bleeding.
Hey! I'm prolly as big a Nova fan as you guys are. Tho, I really tend to set his power levels very much below that of the Surfer. Slightly below Gladiator level, too. Tho, admittedly, recently Norrin is being shown as being in a class on his own.
It's his fighting tactics (with the help of the Worldmind) that makes him so dangerous. Having the level of situational awareness he gets as well as a myriad of tactical resources available to him mid-combat is simply awesome. This coupled with the versatility of the Novaforce makes him a viable threat to any herald-level opponent.
Maaan, if Surfer had Worldmind with him, he'd be unstoppable...!
Worldmind: "Norrin, you noob, stop trying to energy blast him, shrink down, enter his brain and take him down from there!!!"
S'why he's now my fave character. Topping even Norrin and Thor.
Don't know how this argument somehow shifted to Silver Surfer but I'll comment on it anyway.
I think the primary problem here is a matter of how rigid the minds of a lot of people are... once you're used to looking at people with a certain power level, it's usually hard to imagine some lowbie suddenly rising in the ranks all of a sudden, but I will say this much:
A certain level of power can drive someone insane. Something I'm sure we can all agree on is that is a staple of Marvel. First person who got the entire power of the Nova force was some dude who called himself Super Nova, went insane almost immediately.
The first time the Worldmind was brought into Nova, Nova had access to the full power of it all and almost lost his mind in about five panels.
You say Nova wasn't holding back agaisn't Silver Surfer, and I agree. However, when it comes to Nova, the statement 'holding back', cannot be applied the same way as you would apply to other people. During his fight with SS (Not much of a fight, I'll admit), he was not holding back in terms of giving it his all. No doubt about that. But was he using the entirety of the Nova force at that time? No. Because if he was, he would have become irrational again.
He and SS traded blows, so to speak, and I do remember his hitting SS at one point in time and SS showed signs of quite a bit of pain. I think he also hit Nova at that same time.
What do you think would happen if Nova were to let loose EVERYTHING at once at SS? Will Nova lose his mind permanently? More than likely. But will SS still be standing after that? I sincerely doubt it.
Even in his fight agaisn't Sphinx, he stated he was using more of the Nova Force than hed'd used, and he was able to go agaisn't Sphinx, more or less. His judgement was getting impaired but he was certainly not mad yet, which means even then he still hadn't released all the barriers and so forth holding back the rest of the Nova Force.
I don't think SS will be defeated by Nova even if that were to happen for the simple reason that Silver Surfer's durability is bordering on ridiculous. I suppose that's one thing he has that would let him take down Nova almost every single time.
But don't make it seem like SS shows up, pimpslaps Nova into a coma and then runs off, because Nova is below the surfer power wise, but he is not 'very much below'.
But SS and Nova is a different situation than this thread, so let me get back to wonderwoman.
Q99
You said that all things go down with enough damage, which I agree to, so you should understand that this goes both ways.
Reason I don't think Nova will go down in melee? Because it's not a fight where he's getting injured and just keeps coming back. I'm talking about the fact that though he keeps getting injured, he also keeps getting repaired.
Also, like you said, WW has withstood a lot of pain before, but even she has her limits on bodily damage. What would happen if Richard were to give a continued, extremely powerful blast of the Nova Force at her, essentially nonstop. If there's one thing Nova has over WW, it's flight speed, so what happens if he maintains his blast on her but keeps flying back as she's chasing him to try to get closer?
Most reason I know Nova wins this is because he functions well on two playing fields. He may not be able to beat WW in melee but he will sure as hell **** her ass up when it comes to long range fighting. He can hold his own agaisn't her in Melee long enough to gain the advantage.
You said that all things go down with enough damage, which I agree to, so you should understand that this goes both ways.Reason I don't think Nova will go down in melee? Because it's not a fight where he's getting injured and just keeps coming back. I'm talking about the fact that though he keeps getting injured, he also keeps getting repaired.
But WW's going to keep delivering powerful blows in rapid succession, and repairing still takes some time and is power not being used for other things.
The lightning can be kept on in a constant zap too.
Also, like you said, WW has withstood a lot of pain before, but even she has her limits on bodily damage. What would happen if Richard were to give a continued, extremely powerful blast of the Nova Force at her, essentially nonstop. If there's one thing Nova has over WW, it's flight speed, so what happens if he maintains his blast on her but keeps flying back as she's chasing him to try to get closer?
Then WW keeps the bracers up and nulls it entirely, and try her own ranged attacks when an opportunity comes up. Nova needs to get more clever than that since a strait forward approach has it's own problems.
Also, while he's faster in flight, WW's still pretty darn fast, and I'm not sure if he could outpace her while putting *that* much power into blasting.
But WW's going to keep delivering powerful blows in rapid succession, and repairing still takes some time and is power not being used for other things.The lightning can be kept on in a constant zap too.
I won't pretend to know how you're thinking but right now it seems like you're living under the assumption that Nova stands there and takes the punches. Nova is very highly trained in hand to hand combat despite his not using it all that often. Wonder Woman's blows will have even less of an effect because she is fighting with an individual who not only will it take several of her punches to wound him (and that goes both ways), but who will also be doing his best to block and dodge her attacks. He is by no means a slacker when it comes to bruiser fighting.
And yea, the lightning can be kept on constant zap, but
a) Nova, unlike Wonder Woman, has forcefield that comes in useful for things like this,
and
b) Assuming she is already facing an endless onslaught and continued blast from Richard, she is not likely to even be able to gather the sort of mentality it takes to call down lightning. This isn't a laser gun or cyclops blast we're talking about. We're talking about the raw energy of the Nova force. Very few people just shrug that off.
Then WW keeps the bracers up and nulls it entirely, and try her own ranged attacks when an opportunity comes up. Nova needs to get more clever than that since a strait forward approach has it's own problems.Also, while he's faster in flight, WW's still pretty darn fast, and I'm not sure if he could outpace her while putting *that* much power into blasting.
I'm not particularly a WW fan so I'm not sure what you mean by 'Nulls it entirely', could you explain?
And as for the faster, I wasn't just talking about flight. I was also talking about reflexes and muscle movements. The more of the Nova force he uses, the more physically capable he comes, so assuming he is ready to go at someone as powerful as Wonder Woman and has the appropriate power reserve, I see him being fast enough in Melee to present a very serious challenge to her.
I won't pretend to know how you're thinking but right now it seems like you're living under the assumption that Nova stands there and takes the punches. Nova is very highly trained in hand to hand combat despite his not using it all that often. Wonder Woman's blows will have even less of an effect because she is fighting with an individual who not only will it take several of her punches to wound him (and that goes both ways), but who will also be doing his best to block and dodge her attacks. He is by no means a slacker when it comes to bruiser fighting.
Keep in mind, she's fought with that kind of person pretty often. Yes, he has skills, but she's better (part of which is due to her high HtH speed, which I'l go into more depth on later), and a few hits will turn into more as she takes advantage of wounds.
It doesn't take many hits from her to inflict significant damage on Superman and similar when she's going all-out, and he's also a trained hand to hand fighter with a lot of strength and toughness (lesser kryptonians like Supergirl go down right-fast).
He's no slacker, she's just that good.
I'm not particularly a WW fan so I'm not sure what you mean by 'Nulls it entirely', could you explain?
Her bracers were made from Zeus's shield and have what is called the Aegis effect. Nothing that hits them does damage, akin to Captain America's shield, and furthermore when they're crossed in front of her they make a circular forcefield that blocks her entire body from attacks from that side totally.
Blasts by Ares at full power, Darksied's Omega Effect, even Nekron's death blasts, all have been blocked entirely.
So if Nova just blasts Wonder Woman at full strait-on, simply crossing her arms in front of her and flying head on will protect her completely. A side-shot or such would be needed.
And as for the faster, I wasn't just talking about flight. I was also talking about reflexes and muscle movements. The more of the Nova force he uses, the more physically capable he comes, so assuming he is ready to go at someone as powerful as Wonder Woman and has the appropriate power reserve, I see him being fast enough in Melee to present a very serious challenge to her.
Oh, her reflexes are one of her best areas, so I wouldn't count on even an amped Nova doing too well there. In terms of reflexes/hand speed, she's faster than Superman and has hit the likes of Wally West and Zoom.
He can probably make her work when he's really amped, but it's still going into her area where Wonder Woman has both melee speed and skill that's exceptional even for herald levelers.
Alright, you're better than I thought 😛
I'm going to have to pull out all the stops for this one.
Keep in mind, she's fought with that kind of person pretty often. Yes, he has skills, but she's better (part of which is due to her high HtH speed, which I'l go into more depth on later), and a few hits will turn into more as she takes advantage of wounds.It doesn't take many hits from her to inflict significant damage on Superman and similar when she's going all-out, and he's also a trained hand to hand fighter with a lot of strength and toughness (lesser kryptonians like Supergirl go down right-fast).
He's no slacker, she's just that good.
Her bracers were made from Zeus's shield and have what is called the Aegis effect. Nothing that hits them does damage, akin to Captain America's shield, and furthermore when they're crossed in front of her they make a circular forcefield that blocks her entire body from attacks from that side totally.
Blasts by Ares at full power, Darksied's Omega Effect, even Nekron's death blasts, all have been blocked entirely.
So if Nova just blasts Wonder Woman at full strait-on, simply crossing her arms in front of her and flying head on will protect her completely. A side-shot or such would be needed.
When it comes to going all out with hand to hand combat, then I have this much to say. Richard doesn't lack discipline, but simply just feels more comfortable using the Nova force to fight. However, when he is presented with a threat very up close, and has to, for whatever reason, go hand to hand with the opponent, he can access to Xandarian Worldming and immediately receives knowledge of Xandarian martial arts, most of which combine a combination of hand to hand fighting as well as energy attacks.
How would WW act if she is facing someone with equal strength and speed, and though he may have less melee experience than she does, mixes his blows with powerful bursts of the Nova Force (Keep in mind that Nova reduced one of the Luminals to nothing but skeletal structure with one accidental blast). How is she going to overcome a fighting style like that? Especially since it's upclose, cancelling out the possibility of her crossing her bracers, but also being much wider than an individual bracer can handle?
Oh, her reflexes are one of her best areas, so I wouldn't count on even an amped Nova doing too well there. In terms of reflexes/hand speed, she's faster than Superman and has hit the likes of Wally West and Zoom.He can probably make her work when he's really amped, but it's still going into her area where Wonder Woman has both melee speed and skill that's exceptional even for herald levelers.
Unfortunately, being faster than superman doesn't really count for much nowadays.
But I will bring up another solution. A stargate. Opening a stargate inside the atmosphere of a planet can cause incredible and mostly irreversable damage to the surrounding area and people.
If she and Wonder Woman were up close and personal, in a split second, he could open a stargate right where they are and both of them will find themselves in space in a matter of seconds. What happens then?
Yeah but what you're saying doesn't add up.
You're telling me I should go read a couple wonder woman comics. What gives you the impression I haven't read Wonder Woman once in a while?
Did I ever at any point in time say I haven't read Wonder Woman before? I've read when she got blinded, I've read when she killed Maxwell Lord. And I have the Infinity Crisis arc on my comp (Admittedly, it's not about her, but still)
So I didn't know one thing she could do (making shields, which doesn't make much of a difference to the fight ANYWAY).
And because I'm not a WW expert I therefore shouldn't argue?
^See I would have said you aren't a Wonder Woman expert therefor you shouldn't argue if that's what I meant. I'm saying you should read up on her before saying she has no chance against somebody of Novas calibre that's all stop trying to put words on my mouth. Reading a couple Wonder Wpmsn comics obviously isnt enough if you still think she gets stomp 😐. You could just flip threw her respect thread.
I already did go through her respect thread! And I frankly do still think she has no chance.
The reason I'll say so now is the same reason I have always been saying it.
Not even a matter of speaking of raw power, I won't even bring that issue into it since it's so controversial, but she is already at major disadvantage because of three simple things: She can't breathe in space, Nova has the tactical advantage of the most advanced supercomputer in the universe who can upload valuable skills and information into his brain, cutting short any learning process, and three: Nova can open a stargate into a random location in the galaxy in a second.
No amount of her feats can EVER change those three things. And that is why I stick firmly to what I am saying. I don't need to be a WW expert to know she has no chance.
Not that she isn't strong. I just don't SEE any way of her winning. I can't see much that she can do!