X-Force: Counter Terrorism Unit or Murders?

Originally posted by Deadline
No you're jumping on the bandwagon because you probably think Batman should kill but you've suddenly changed your mind....

If thats your justification fine. Many people have agreed with what Batman does becuase they think its moraly correct and not because of his character.

i don't. i believe in assassinations, torture in certain situations, and have the opinion that certain people have to die.

just because i think they're justified, though, doesn't mean i think other people should think that. batman doesn't, so imo he should reman consistent to his character.

Originally posted by Deadline
No you're jumping on the bandwagon because you probably think Batman should kill but you've suddenly changed your mind....

For starters what I stated never disagreed or agreed that Batman should kill. What I was stating was your concept that people believing x-force should kill, but then having problems with batman killing to be hypocritical. Becuase the fact is X-force series and it members are sold as and moralistic views on the world are vastly different then Batman.

As for batman killing I could careless though, if he became a killer it should be done in a similar way as shadowland daredevil.

For Batman people need to realize that though he a character that seems to border upon the grey lines of the law. He is second perhaps to none, perhaps other then superman in his moral convictions it always seemed in my opinion.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
For Batman people need to realize that though he a character that seems to border upon the grey lines of the law. He is second perhaps to known perhaps other then superman in his moral convictions it always seemed in my opinion.

superman has killed more people than batman has, so i might put batman ahead of him tbh...

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Really because you know what I am thinking right?

For starters what I stated never disagreed or agreed that Batman should kill. What I was stating was your concept that people believing x-force should kill, but then having problems with batman killing to be hypocritical. Becuase the fact is X-force series and it members are sold as and moralistic views on the world are vastly different then Batman.

As for batman killing I could careless though, if he became a killer it should be done in a similar way as shadowland daredevil.

You are using the term hypocrite incorrectly. Anyway if thats what you think, fine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't. i believe in assassinations, torture in certain situations, and have the opinion that certain people have to die.

just because i think they're justified, though, doesn't mean i think other people should think that. batman doesn't, so imo he should reman consistent to his character.

Well alot of people think he should make an exception with the Joker and Batman has made exceptions before, not sure if its out of his character anyway.

Originally posted by -Pr-
superman has killed more people than batman has, so i might put batman ahead of him tbh...

Interesting. Elaborate?

Originally posted by Deadline
You are using the term hypocrite incorrectly. Anyway if thats what you think, fine.

Well alot of people think he should make an exception with the Joker and Batman has made exceptions before, not sure if its out of his character anyway.

Interesting. Elaborate?

batman doesn't make many exceptions if any, though. given his beliefs and his previous actions, any sort of murder is definitely out of his character.

Superman has killed: Doomsday, Grundy by accident, three kryptonians, a sentient robot too iirc.

Sets up for another interesting debate:

Character consistantcy vs. Character Growth and development.

When is it okay for a character to change?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sets up for another interesting debate:

Character consistantcy vs. Character Growth and development.

When is it okay for a character to change?

when it's within their sphere of ability imo.

like, i could see batman becoming a darker person, but not a stone cold killer.

Originally posted by -Pr-
when it's within their sphere of ability imo.

like, i could see batman becoming a darker person, but not a stone cold killer.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And then after becoming darker slowly becoming a killer would be more plausible or still out of character? Now I did say slowly so I'm not talking about an over night thing.

it would have to be due to massive emotional trauma imo. the only problem is that with batman, he takes almost everything in his stride. i can't see any trauma breaking him to the point that he would be a killer.

Originally posted by -Pr-
batman doesn't make many exceptions if any, though. given his beliefs and his previous actions, any sort of murder is definitely out of his character.

Vampires, Darkseid and apparently he tried to kill Ras.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it would have to be due to massive emotional trauma imo. the only problem is that with batman, he takes almost everything in his stride. i can't see any trauma breaking him to the point that he would be a killer.

You didn't read IC where almost killed Alexander Luthor? Yes killing the Bat family would send him over the edge. Superman needs to be mind-wiped.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Who's "they" Digi out of curiosity? You mean the fans?

You didn't see any of the comical backlash when Bats killed Darkseid, with a gun of all things? I didn't think I needed to spell it out. Nobody argued that it was immoral, just that it was out of character even for such a situation.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it would have to be due to massive emotional trauma imo. the only problem is that with batman, he takes almost everything in his stride. i can't see any trauma breaking him to the point that he would be a killer.

To the new X-factor right?

Originally posted by Digi
You didn't see any of the comical backlash when Bats killed Darkseid, with a gun of all things? I didn't think I needed to spell it out. Nobody argued that it was immoral, just that it was out of character even for such a situation.

Even I would argue that its out of character like you said he tried to kill him with a gun. Hmm then again he almost killed Alexander Luthor with a gun...

Im also not sure if Batman killing non-humans is out of character though.

Originally posted by Deadline
Vampires, Darkseid and apparently he tried to kill Ras.

You didn't read IC where almost killed Alexander Luthor? Yes killing the Bat family would send him over the edge. Superman needs to be mind-wiped.

vampires aren't alive. darkseid was his big exception. he's ALMOST killed plenty of people, but for whatever reason stopped.

it was because dick was hurt. not the bat-family. BIG difference. plus, bruce ended up not doing it. nearly doing something doesn't prove that he would take the next step.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So sort of like what made Cyclops from

To the new X-factor right?

no. that's just shitty writing.

Originally posted by -Pr-

no. that's just shitty writing.

Mind you I'm not arguing with you on Cyclops. That would just be silly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which one? The telling wolverine that if he kills he's the enemy, the emotional turmoil Cyclops went through since then, or the assigning wolverine to be a killer?

Mind you I'm not arguing with you on Cyclops. That would just be silly.

just the way it was handled. if cyclops had made x-force as a knee jerk reaction to messiah complex and the danger mutantkind was in, i wouldn't have minded. the fact that he was so calculated about it just irked me, and was out of character.

😂

Originally posted by -Pr-
vampires aren't alive.

Of course they are. They are sentient, intelligent and they feel pain. Just because there different from humans doesn't make it any different.

Originally posted by -Pr-
darkseid was his big exception. he's ALMOST killed plenty of people, but for whatever reason stopped.

Well why can't Joker be an exception millions of lives isn't enough?

Originally posted by -Pr-

it was because dick was hurt. not the bat-family. BIG difference.

P Nightwing is part of the Bat-family. Im talking about a situation where Nightwing and others got killed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
plus, bruce ended up not doing it. nearly doing something doesn't prove that he would take the next step.

Sure it does. Nightwing got badly injured Batman almost killed him, therefore a worse situation could push him over the edge.

Originally posted by -Pr-
just the way it was handled. if cyclops had made x-force as a knee jerk reaction to messiah complex and the danger mutantkind was in, i wouldn't have minded. the fact that he was so calculated about it just irked me, and was out of character.

😂

I don't know about that, there were events that started to slowly piss Cyclops off eg crucifying mutants on the X-lawn.

Originally posted by -Pr-
just the way it was handled. if cyclops had made x-force as a knee jerk reaction to messiah complex and the danger mutantkind was in, i wouldn't have minded. the fact that he was so calculated about it just irked me, and was out of character.

😂

That there was the initial desicion to do this based on the messiah complex, but after that he began to calculate what needed to be done?

It would be a little difficult for me to see someone I veiw as being so strategically brilliant to just give in to a knee-jerk reaction and that be the end of it.

Now you're still the expert and perhaps I'm not really seeing cyclops the way he is and am over looking some of the character flaws in regards to strategy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's called consistency. which is as true of most people as it is fictional characters.

Thanks for... complimenting my point? I love you PR.

It doesn't give me a lot of hope though, if people would prefer that Batman is consistently stupid. *sighs* Fans...

Originally posted by Digi
You didn't see any of the comical backlash when Bats killed Darkseid, with a gun of all things? I didn't think I needed to spell it out. Nobody argued that it was immoral, just that it was out of character even for such a situation.

This is the only comic book related site I go to, and I spend less time in this little section then in almost any of the others on the forum. So, yeah you need to spell it out, otherwise I wouldn't have asked.