Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
When? Annihilation: Surfer #1
Never? Yeah, you never read the book.Not when he battled Ravenous as D_Dude1210 points out. His jump did create it though.
I did indeed read the book. Creating the Black Hole as an after effect of the battle - which is how you presented it - is not what happened.
So when did it happen? Never.
What you most likely did is get that instance confused with "Galactus: The Devourer" where he and Red Shift are fighting in a black hole.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Worldmind has superior tactical/combat awareness feats.
It's the same basic thing. The advice of the ring is less 'advice' and more information, but it's just as capable (if not more capable) of scanning and probing and giving information about a foe or situation. Same with the Mother Box, except it's advice does tend to be more a little more direct, though we never actually hear it (to us, it's pings, to the user it's telepathic).
My only point is that if you're going to give the Galactic Avengers team the benefit of consideration of tactical/strategic enhancers, it's only fair that you do the same to the other team, who have similar resources.
Unless it beats Nova tearing apart a TON of Kree Sentries (who are each high meta level at minimum) with a single Stargate, I'd say Nova has the superior stargate offensive feat.
Again, I never said that Nova didn't have the 'superior' offensive feat. I simply said that Orion has used the Mother Box and Boom Tube offensively.
Not sure why you're debating with me, I actually support the JLA taking this.
I'm not debating your overall outcome, just specific points or questions you're raising.
Originally posted by Sandata
from marvel.com/universe/RonanPowers
Can currently adapt his body to survive any hostile environment. Strength-enhancing armor. Generate cold to put certain lifeforms into suspended animation. Render himself 'invisible'.Weapons
Can disintegrate/transmute/rearrange matter, absorb/project energy blasts, create 'time-motion displacement fields', and achieve interstellar teleportation, using his universal weapon.certainly not a weak link!
Originally posted by Psychopath001
Exactly what I was about to say.If anyone thinks Ronan is a weak link then you seriously need to go brush up on your marvel knowledge.
LOL, his bio doesnt mean a lot, on panel feats is the cake and what counts. In this thread, he has the lowest feats.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Jla because of Orion mostly
He's a match for just about anyone, true. Telepathic immunity, resistance to having his molecules messed with, the Astro Force, and general toughness make him a beast..
And that's without factoring in Mother Box.
But he likely isn't soloing.
CA win the majority, they are to verstaile for JLA. 5 out 6 of CA are energy manipulators as where the JLA has three GL and Capatin Atom, Orion. Truth be told as badass as Orion is he is no match against Silver Surfer who would beat the crap out of him, even Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator will take Orion too his limits.
Superman could be for the first time a weak link, Quasar And Silver Surfer can siphon off his solar energy at whim, and Silver Surfer, Quasar with there cosmic awareness will have advantage over JLA. But JLA wont go down without of fight and a fight it will be, hell this would be a great mini series right now.
Re: Cosmic Avengers vs. JLA
Originally posted by the Darkone
Cosmic AvengersSilver Surfer
Nova
Gladiator
Quasar
Beta Ray Bill
Ronanvs.
JLA
Superman
Wonder Woman
Captani Marvel
Orion
Green Lantern- Hal Jordan
Captain Atom
As for the actual battle, it's a pretty even one.
Ronan is the obvious weak link between the two, but Wonder Woman isn't THAT much better. Captain Atom sort of vacillates between extremely high effectiveness and power(in his crossover to the Wildstorm universe, for instance, or the guy who creates and destroys universes both as Monarch and normal Captain Atom) and extremely low effectiveness and power (the guy who gets taken out by a sidewinder missile to the face). I'd be interested in seeing him go up against Quasar, if only because of the similar nature of their abilities (both tapping into the quantum field, both capable of absorbing vast amounts of energy, with Atom actually able to manipulate matter).
Silver Surfer and Beta Ray Bill are the two heavies on the Marvel team, and I'd say that Orion and Hal are their best matches on the other. BRB vs Orion is a great battle, but one in which I give Orion the edge 6/10. They are similar in a lot of respects, but I'd say Orion is faster and more skilled in hand to hand.
Silver vs Hal is a push, as far as I'm concerned. Both of them are hugely powerful, Hal is more effective with the Surfer having more raw power. Both are essentially infinitely versatile. 50/50 there for me.
Gladiator vs Supes could go either way as well, though I'm tempted to give the slight edge to Superman just due to the greater number of feats he's got. I think they are essentially on par in every respect though.
Every individual contest is going to be a tight one, IMHO. But the DC team squeaks it out.
Originally posted by Desaad
It's the same basic thing. The advice of the ring is less 'advice' and more information, but it's just as capable (if not more capable) of scanning and probing and giving information about a foe or situation. Same with the Mother Box, except it's advice does tend to be more a little more direct, though we never actually hear it (to us, it's pings, to the user it's telepathic).
The Worldmind functions much more than a sensor/scanner it works as a tactical resource/database as well as controls his hormonal balance, as well as the Nova Force. It's a completely independent consciousness that guides, suggests, warns, teaches and pushes Nova to meet the myriad of tactical/combat situations he faces.
Tho the MB has a lot of functions that the WM cannot replicate (such as matter manipulation), you'll have to show the independent tactical savvy and situational awareness that is provided by the WM.
GL rings function as scanning/sensing/database devices. I've never seen them (but I do agree that I'm not as well read GL-wise as a lot of people here) function as even close to the WM as an independent self-aware tactical resource.
Originally posted by Desaad
My only point is that if you're going to give the Galactic Avengers team the benefit of consideration of tactical/strategic enhancers, it's only fair that you do the same to the other team, who have similar resources.
Both sides have "similar resources". It's just that the level of tactical advantage provided by the Worldmind is superior, and thus, more of a factor here.
Originally posted by Desaad
Again, I never said that Nova didn't have the 'superior' offensive feat. I simply said that Orion has used the Mother Box and Boom Tube offensively.
MY point was in response to someone (not you) suggesting that the Boom Tube can be used offensively. The point is, Nova's offensive use of his BFR abilities have been shown to be much more effective offensively and is actually a better tactical argument in favor for the GMH than it is for the JLA.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The Worldmind functions much more than a sensor/scanner it works as a tactical resource/database as well as controls his hormonal balance, as well as the Nova Force. It's a completely independent consciousness that guides, suggests, warns, teaches and pushes Nova to meet the myriad of tactical/combat situations he faces.
From what I've seen, in battle, it's mostly saying "Rich, over on your left! Rich, over on your right! That thing is really powerful!"
It's not really giving any weaknesses or weak spots, or even telling Rich the way he needs to attack. He figured out how to defeat Xenith, for instance, not Worldmind. And in some ways, it feels almost a slower interface than would a direct mind-to-weapon connection, as Rich has to say "Left gauntlet, 30% gravitmetric pulse" or what have you, rather than simply thinking it.
Tho the MB has a lot of functions that the WM cannot replicate (such as matter manipulation), you'll have to show the independent tactical savvy and situational awareness that is provided by the WM.
I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for. Are you talking about direct guidance? She specifically instructed and allowed, for instance, Swamp Thing to change the way his energy matrix oscillated so that he and Metron could penetrate/travel through the source and space/time. Or maybe you mean the way that Mother Box enhanced Iron Man's senses, allowing him to 'know' and 'feel' that the Flash was coming, and exactly how/when to attack? Or do you mean simply aiding the hero based on the situation, as one did to Superman when he faced Doomsday, arming him with a bunch of weapons that he would need for the specific situation? Or, like, when it tells Orion the nature of the type of energy he faces so he can defeat it? Or give the backstory on Billion Dollar Bates based on a scan of a giant, bloated clone (ie, the history of the foe?) Or warning Orion that the self destruction of the building he's in has just been activated? Or when a time -distortion field is being directed at him?
It's even been used as a sort of Worldmind, in Starman. I think the real difference is that normally it's not verbal, it's not overt, so it doesn't seem like it is saying or doing as much, but it's always there advising and helping...supporting. That's what a mother does. 🙂 (in the example I used from starman, Orion encodes a mother box with the personality anagrams of Ted Knight, the original Starman, to help Jack Knight on his space journey...and he gives advice and warns him of this and that).
GL rings function as scanning/sensing/database devices. I've never seen them (but I do agree that I'm not as well read GL-wise as a lot of people here) function as even close to the WM as an independent self-aware tactical resource.
What I'm saying is that with a savvy enough mind at the helm of one of these devices, the difference is almost nonexistent. Maybe Rich, who is a bit more inexperienced, needs someone to tell him how to do things, but these guys generally do not (and, really, Rich doesn't either -- he often times ignores the greater strategies or specific advice put forth by Worldmind and does his own thing, which tends to be MORE successful). These devices give real time information about their foes' natures and weaknesses and incoming attacks, and I think that's good enough.
Both sides have "similar resources". It's just that the level of tactical advantage provided by the Worldmind is superior, and thus, more of a factor here.
I think the real difference is pretty small.
MY point was in response to someone (not you) suggesting that the Boom Tube can be used offensively. The point is, Nova's offensive use of his BFR abilities have been shown to be much more effective offensively and is actually a better tactical argument in favor for the GMH than it is for the JLA.
I think both are pretty uncommon and unlikely, but I'd agree with you. I was simply answering your question as to whether Orion has never done so. He has, like once in his entire career.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]^ Not flamebait.
It's absolutely flamebait. Rather than respond to my opinion reasonably and with logical or evidence, you opted to start with 'bullshit'.
You're not inviting debate, you're just being ornery, and it's not worth my time or energy.
If you'd like to demonstrate a real desire to debate, feel free, but if not, it's not worth my time.
this is a very, very close fight. I think depending on who fights who will determine the fights outcome more then whoms team has the bigger powerhouse. like superman and surfer for instance, i no surfer with his cosmic awareness can detect just about any opponents weakness, yes he can produce red sun radiation, but as for the kryptonite thats the big IF. As of current DC story lines all supermens are only effected by their original universes Kryptonite, like how KC Superman and superboy prime were not effected by Kryptonite that wasn't from their universe. Mind u when superboy was facing the legion of three worlds, it was only the element lad from earth prime that was able to create the rite type of Krp to hurt him. the other then as will is absorption of his solar energy, not saying it can be done, just not as quickly as most seem to think. the more stress his under the more solar energy he absorbs, and i doute he would stay still long enough for that to happen. aww 5/5 for both team
