The Sinister Six Vs Wolverine

Originally posted by SamZED
Still, they're not as fast as Spider-man. Neither is Logan.

so we ignore feats that say Logans damn close because what? Becuase you don't think it should be that way..well, feats say otherwise. What else do we base these things off of? Feats put Logan, High end Daredevil, Highend Cap, average Elektra and Average Ironfist a fraction below Spiderman..enough to make his 'advantage' negligable. It doesn't matter if it's "crazy" and it doesn't matter if it's "not the way it should be"

Know why?

Because it's the way it is. Feats speak for themsleves, disagree as much as you like, arguing with the feats themselves is ..well..that way madness lay. 😬

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If every speed feat of Spider-man's has been matched or equaled by a skilled street level... then why is he faster? The difference between Spider-man's speed and top level streets is negligible, like the difference between first and last place in the 100 meter dash at the Olympics. That's not how it "should be," that is how it is. When it comes to speed most streets are pushing against the glass ceiling separating human from superhuman, and Spider-man is right on the other side. It is his spider-sense that gives him an advantage.

Wolverine's combat reaction time (moving from a stationary position to attacking an enemy) was listed on panel as being almost 10 times the speed of an average human's twitch reaction time for a finger.

Also his personality makes him hold back quite a bit while he is fighting, something most "anti hero" streets don't need to do. I've already made a thread on this, and it has been proven. Unless someone wants to put up their feats side by side.

And by the way, feat wars are *not* great ways to argue, anybody can take all of the best feats of one character and lower it against another without taking things into consideration. Which is what a majority of KMC does anyways.

I thought Spiderman being a deal faster was common sense honestly, I've only really seen the usual suspsects argue otherwise.

Originally posted by Juk3n
so we ignore feats that say Logans damn close because what? Becuase you don't think it should be that way..well, feats say otherwise. What else do we base these things off of? Feats put Logan, High end Daredevil, Highend Cap, average Elektra and Average Ironfist a fraction below Spiderman..enough to make his 'advantage' negligable. It doesn't matter if it's "crazy" and it doesn't matter if it's "not the way it should be"

Know why?

Because it's the way it is. Feats speak for themsleves, disagree as much as you like, arguing with the feats themselves is ..well..that way madness lay. 😬

Seriously. Saying otherwise is like saying someone could come to this forum after reading a wiki article on Spider-man and have the necessary knowledge need to make an informed opinion on which fights he would win.

I've always viewed Spidey as the poor man's ninja.

What Spider-Man lacks in training he makes up for in powers. What the other street levelers in question lack in power they make up for in training.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I've always viewed Spidey as the poor man's ninja.

What Spider-Man lacks in training he makes up for in powers. What the other street levelers in question lack in power they make up for in training.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously. Saying otherwise is like saying someone could come to this forum after reading a wiki article on Spider-man and have the necessary knowledge need to make an informed opinion on which fights he would win.

You wouldn't like them bashing comics, so please don't bash wiki.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
H1, Brucey, Carver, and many others have relied on wikipedia as their main source of info.

You wouldn't like them bashing comics, so please don't bash wiki.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I've always viewed Spidey as the poor man's ninja.

The Hand agrees 👆

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Because they haven't really "equaled" all of his feats, they might have some comparable feats, but they haven't done this as often, nor have they done this with less effort. How many people have taken a hit from Hulk? Should we now say that they are able to take as much damage as Wolverine, or that they are now "equally durable"? Suspension of disbelief and logic do apply. Spiderman has statistically faster speed, biographically faster speed, he's blitzed more people, more often, fought faster enemies, and been faster in panels where several (skilled street) characters were, and they even commented on this. It is obvious characters like Batman and Bullseye don't have superhuman speed, some characters with MA training have an easier time predicting moves but it isn't true precog.

Also his personality makes him hold back quite a bit while he is fighting, something most "anti hero" streets don't need to do. I've already made a thread on this, and it has been proven. Unless someone wants to put up their feats side by side.

And by the way, feat wars are *not* great ways to argue, anybody can take all of the best feats of one character and lower it against another without taking things into consideration. Which is what a majority of KMC does anyways.

I thought Spiderman being a deal faster was common sense honestly, I've only really seen the usual suspsects argue otherwise.

Except for all his feats have been matched by top end streets. Sure, maybe not as often, but that hardly matters 9/10 streets don't have nearly as many monthly appearances as Spider-man... but that doesn't change the fact that even with significantly less panel time Daredevil/Ironfist/Shang-chi/Batman have all replicated or matched with an equally impressive feat virtually everyone of Spider-man's high end speed feats. Batman has more skill feats that pretty much any other comic character, but that doesn't over shadow the fact that other characters have feats that are just as - and in some cases - more impressive.

... and your assertion that they do it with more effort is complete bs. There is no way to accurately judge that, you are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

Taking hits from bricks is a different matter entirely. It's a pretty widely excepted and established fact that this is accomplished by "rolling" with glancing blows, they aren't eating full on class 100 shots. Pick a more accurate comparison.

Where are these panels where Spider-man is shown to be faster than other skilled streets? There is about half a dozen New Avengers panels of Iron Fist, Spider-man and Wolverine where Iron Fist and Spider-man are stationary in the action while Wolverine's arms are a blur and there is about a dozen claw lines all over the panel, like he is doing the MvC2 Berserker Barrage.

Spider-man holds back his strength so he doesn't kill people... I don't think there has ever been an indication that he holds back his speed. Why would he do that? There is no logical or practical reason for doing it, his speed is only ever an advantage there are no possible negative repercussions. Pulling his punches isn't prove that he puts on speed dampeners. That is absurd.

spidey once blitz underneath a dying kids bed b4 the kid could see him... so.. obviously spidey holds back his speed when fighting normal healthy adults if we use this as his bases.. 😛

Originally posted by Creshosk
I've always viewed Spidey as the poor man's ninja.

What Spider-Man lacks in training he makes up for in powers. What the other street levelers in question lack in power they make up for in training.

well its not like spidey is a skilled MA'er most his punches are brawler style he doesnt aim with intend to do particular damage he goes for overall blunt trauma..

guys like shang or IF when they punch its a precise blow and often has a purpose of disrupting the body with more then blunt trauma..

soooo. some muggers and bank robbers are better skilled then spidey in fighting and MA but dont possess the physical attributes to content with spidey.. most are below olympic stats..

Originally posted by jinzin
Meh, Spiderman can't actively and legitimately attack Doc Ock's arms which is why he has to play the hit and run game so often but there's plenty of people that have negotiated Ocks arms who are no Wolverine. 😬

Honestly Wolverine's already dealt with worse than Ock or as bad and done fine. Ock can't really say the same about Wolverine..y'know xept for when he had adamantium.

Logan has his hardest fight at two and probably takes Ock for a slim majority... after that he basically clears this.

Once Wolverines claws are immobilized He's not even a threat to Ock anymore and he's not strong enough to break the grip of even one tentacle that has pinned his arms to his sides. What super power is Wolverine supposed to use to have an advantage against Doc Ock?

no, he hasnt.

spiderman was unable to take down a prime sentinel and he even had help from marrow...

also last i checked spidey also had help fighting a single sentinel during the onslaught story arc..

Doc Ock beating or holding hulk was an upgraded ock with adamantium tentacles and even then a single thunder clap should have taken down doc ock.

old logan being taken down by a sentinel blast during days of future past isnt canon nor would it apply anymore to a current logan..
1) he was old already no idea what his HF was at especially when his HF wasnt remotely close to what it is now.

Not to mention in subsequent DofP time line stories that take place after that incident Wolverine is still around... I just don't remember the explanation off the top of my head.

Originally posted by King Castle
no, he hasnt.

spiderman was unable to take down a prime sentinel and he even had help from marrow...

also last i checked spidey also had help fighting a single sentinel during the onslaught story arc..

Doc Ock beating or holding hulk was an upgraded ock with adamantium tentacles and even then a single thunder clap should have taken down doc ock.

old logan being taken down by a sentinel blast during days of future past isnt canon nor would it apply anymore to a current logan..
1) he was old already no idea what his HF was at especially when his HF wasnt remotely close to what it is now.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Still what's to keep Ock from being able to grab Wolverine?

There are certain obvious difference between someone trying to avoid Doc Ocks arms to get into melee and someone actively targeting them to take them out of the equation...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Seriously?
I could tell you, but you wouldn't like the answer.

well first off twisting his wrist would allow to slice the tentacles..
also the reinforced bones pressing against doc ock's tentacles would break b4 logan's bones..

their are various instances of these tactics working..

although logan does not have SS like spidey he does have lvl 7 fighting skills and hypersenses that work nearly as well as spidey.. as that was its intend when written by claremont. logan's hyper reflexes also contribute to why he would have a fair shot at slicing Doc ock's arms..

also logan has had past experience with similar guy's like doc ock but better.. with actual physical enhancements from omega red and epsilon red.