Originally posted by Pwned
In teh zone Anakin wins.He obliterated Dooku, something I dont think Vader as of the OT could have done, because he was ruled by his emotions, etc.
In teh zone, Anakin could draw on the dark side and not be entirely corrupted, he was able to go to the Jedi again and not be shrouded in darkness.
See, thats where i see things differently. I DO think vader couldve beaten dooku as of OT. He's only gotten better since ROTS. Maybe not with sabers, but with sheer experience and VASTLY more powerful in the force. So i think he might b able to edge it out against dooku.
And i'd also have to disagree with u with OT vader being ruled by his emotions. He's not a punk 22 year old kid anymore. He's had 20 + years to grow into a seasoned lord of the sith who doesn't let his emotions get the best of him in the same ways that Anakin did.
In your opinion, who do u think in teh zone anakin is comparable to in terms of power?
As of right now, I dont have a formed opinion on this bout.
Then for a single mistake why would he execute a subordinate?
Also, he is more than likely still pissed about Padme dying.....
Idk who he is comaprable to in teh zone i just know this: He tooled a 70+ year old Jedi Master turned Sith Lord, who was one of the best duelists of his time, third only to Mace and Yoda.
In the force, yes, OT Vader is FAR more powerful. In sabers, a bit but only because he customized his style to be used in his suit, giving him unpredictability.
Hes in his 40s, sure, but Palpatine is the one in control, because he controls all his emotions, he could do whatever the f*ck the wanted.
Vader was also kind of insane, imho. He would try 1 tactic til it worked, no matter the cost.
Originally posted by Pwned
Then for a single mistake why would he execute a subordinate?Also, he is more than likely still pissed about Padme dying.....
Idk who he is comaprable to in teh zone i just know this: He tooled a 70+ year old Jedi Master turned Sith Lord, who was one of the best duelists of his time, third only to Mace and Yoda.
In the force, yes, OT Vader is FAR more powerful. In sabers, a bit but only because he customized his style to be used in his suit, giving him unpredictability.
Hes in his 40s, sure, but Palpatine is the one in control, because he controls all his emotions, he could do whatever the f*ck the wanted.
Vader was also kind of insane, imho. He would try 1 tactic til it worked, no matter the cost.
So how can "zone" anakin win if you just said OT vader is FAR more powerful in the force and slightly better with sabers? Seems contradictory. Who are you siding with?
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In a Force contest: Vader. Anakin may be of utter clarity-of-mind, but that doesn't mean his knowledge of, or power in the Force increased. At least not enough to combat Vader.Sabers, though: Anakin, for sure.
"...now he's half machine and half man, so he has lost a lot of the power of the force and he has lost a lot of visibility to be more powerful than the emperor..."
So yeah, while I agree his knowledge and control increased he apparently doesn't possess the sheer power of his former self anymore.
Therefore I just don't see Vader beating "in teh zone" Anakin in anything.
While GL did say that, in many novels he has shown far greater feats in the force then Anakin ever did. This leads me to believe Vader merely lost his potential in the force, and not loose what he's already had. Again, i see contradiction between EU and GL's word... 😕
I do believe that Vader could beat Anakin the way he usually is. As powerful as skywalker maybe, he lacks the experience and mental discipline that the older jedi master's have (kenobi, windu, yoda).
However in his "in teh zone" form, this weakness is no longer a factor in whomever he faces....which still leads me to no conclusive winner.
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
While GL did say that, in many novels he has shown far greater feats in the force then Anakin ever did. This leads me to believe Vader merely lost his [B]potential in the force, and not loose what he's already had. Again, i see contradiction between EU and GL's word... 😕I do believe that Vader could beat Anakin the way he usually is. As powerful as skywalker maybe, he lacks the experience and mental discipline that the older jedi master's have (kenobi, windu, yoda).
However in his "in teh zone" form, this weakness is no longer a factor in whomever he faces....which still leads me to no conclusive winner. [/B]
"in teh zone!!!!!" Anakin pwned Dooku in a matter of seconds, putting this version of Anakin arguably above Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Vader got pwned by an enraged ROTJ Luke and almost lost to a cloned Maul.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"in teh zone!!!!!" Anakin pwned Dooku in a matter of seconds, putting this version of Anakin arguably above Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Vader got pwned by an enraged ROTJ Luke and almost lost to a cloned Maul.
VERY arguably... first time he fought dooku on geonosis, dooku made a distraction as a last ditch effort when IMO yoda was REALLY gonna start fighting. And the 2nd time on Vjun, when dooku was even empowered by the planets darkside engery, he still admits that yoda overpowered him.
After reading DR, its very clear that Yoda wants dooku to turn back SO badly. He obviously loves him, and it would break his heart to strike him down. So i think he was holding back both times when fighting dooku and could've easily beat him the way "in teh zone" anakin did if he wanted to.
And vader lost to luke in ROTJ because he really didn't even want to fight Luke in the first place, hence his "inner conflict". I believe Luke even states that vader could've beat him if he wanted to in a certain novel, but i personally haven't read it. Can anyone help me with the exact quote? And is vader's encounter with maul considered cannon? Not saying ur wrong, i've just heard mixed things about it.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkVader's potential may have lessened, but his overall knowledge of, and skill with, the force was still far beyond what it was during RotS. Remember, unrealized potential is all but meaningless. Realized potential is where it's at.
I was watching the ESB commentary the other day and Lucas said the following about Vader:"...now he's half machine and half man, [b]so he has lost a lot of the power of the force
and he has lost a lot of visibility to be more powerful than the emperor..."So yeah, while I agree his knowledge and control increased he apparently doesn't possess the sheer power of his former self anymore.
Therefore I just don't see Vader beating "in teh zone" Anakin in anything. [/B]
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014Purtty much, imo.
So the main consensus is that he's a MUCH more powerful in the force, but in sabers? not so much...
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014Vader's external force powers may have been > zone Anakin's -- but Dooku's were as well, yet Anakin embarrassed him nonetheless.
So who do u think takes this match up? I think im starting to lean towards Vader.
So yeah...
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader's potential may have lessened, but his overall knowledge of, and skill with, the force was still far beyond what it was during RotS.
But again, the quote say he lost a lot of force power (power, not potential) right there when he became half machine. This means that Vader's Force powers are FAR weaker than the ones Anakin had already displayed at some point before (in all likelihood during his ITZ state).
Remember, unrealized potential is all but meaningless. Realized potential is where it's at. [/B]
When ROTJ Luke tapped into his potential there was nothing Vader could do to stop him. In the case of ITZ Anakin it would be either about the same or even a stomp on a grand scale.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkUnless you know of a specific instance where Anakin demonstrated force powers (the external type) superior to those displayed by Vader, then my previous statement still stands.
That's like exactly what I wrote. 😐But again, the quote say he lost [B]a lot
of force power (power, not potential) right there when he became half machine. This means that Vader's Force powers are FAR weaker than the ones Anakin had already displayed at some point before (in all likelihood during his ITZ state).Remember, this is ITZ Anakin, the version that makes great use of his potential, so in this case his way superior potential will come in handy. Against all other incarnations of Anakin you would have a point, but not here.[/B]
Originally posted by DrunknClockworka.) Luke was swinging his lightsaber around like Stevie Wonder during batting practice. It was a pathetic display, really.
When ROTJ Luke tapped into his potential there was nothing Vader could do to stop him. In the case of ITZ Anakin it would be either about the same or even a stomp on a grand scale.
b.) Vader didn't want to harm his own child.
c.) Lucas more or less stated that Luke became what Anakin was intended to be. ie. they both had the same potential.
Originally posted by Galan007
Unless you know of a specific instance where Anakin demonstrated force powers (the external type) superior to those displayed by Vader, then my previous statement still stands.
a.) Luke was swinging his lightsaber around like Stevie Wonder during batting practice. It was a pathetic display, really.b.) Vader didn't want to harm his own child.
c.) Lucas more or less stated that Luke became what Anakin was intended to be. ie. they both had the same potential.
b.) It was yet again like the Anakin vs. Dooku battle: At first he held back, but then he fought for his life.
c.) Source please; "Luke became what Anakin was intended to be" seems a little vague to me. It could mean that he became the greatest Jedi ever or so; it's not necessarily a direct relation between Anakin's and Luke's battle prowess.
And even if it IS referring to his potential then Vader still gets stomped like against Luke, so I don't see your point here. 😐