Frank Castle vs Steve Rogers

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Optimistically Frank is going take a minimum of three hits for every one he lands. Now, while I personally believe that Frank is hands down, absolutely the most durable street level human (and I include Cap in that list), I don't think his edge is enough to make up being hit 3:1 by a stronger, faster and more skilled opponent.

Statistically Frank would lose this fight every time if it was run in a simulation. The thing is though, he knows that and being the crafty guy he is, he can play his own weaknesses to his advantage. Knowing he is going to tire and slow down long before Captain America, he can play it up, pretending to tire and slow down a bit faster then normal. Secretly keeping something in reserve for perfectly timed strike, while Cap thinks he is running on fumes, he could potentially take Cap by surprise and pull out a win.

Honestly I don't even consider Cap peak human anymore. Cap's durability is far from human IMO at least Frank's freakishly strong opponents tend to be on the strength level of a gorilla in most cases. I mean I don't see him tanking shots from Iron Man in his extremis suit.
Cap however has a tendency to run into some of the higher end hitters for villains that no normal human has any business in taking straight shots to the face and getting back up for seconds, peak human or not.

Amazing showing of damage soak for Frank. Captain America still has better -a lot in my opinion- showings under his belt.

Yeah... I said in most cases as in all comic book heroes and villains there are exceptions. Like as I recently found out Batman taking out Lobo in a straight fist fight... Does it happen yes. Should it ever NO! However Cap's inconsistency for damage soak with what peak human's should be able to soak makes me put him in the superhuman level because the times when his soak is peak human is now far outnumbered by when his soak is that of someone like spiderman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Amazing showing of damage soak for Frank. Captain America still has better -a lot in my opinion- showings under his belt.

Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

In Civil War, Captain America withstood a shield bash from Spider-Man (He used his mechanical arms), and immediately went on to tank a double fisted flying assault to the back from Iron Man through a brick wall I believe. He then withstood 1 punch to the ribs and 3 to the face. Rogers was still standing although he was bruised and bleeding. Hercules then dumped an entire truck -that seemed to be carrying fuel- on top of Iron Man. Captain America was right besides Tony when the large explosion happened and this was what finally brought him down. Taking into account how incredibly damn strong Extremis Iron Man is -he was able to hurt and if I recall correctly, even draw blood from Sentry with a blow- that showing is a hell of a lot more impressive to me then what Frank just withstood in the above scans.

While we're on the topic of Iron Man, Rogers has withstood 3 flying blows to the face from a blood lusted Iron Man before. I've even seen him withstand punches to the face from someone like Namor.

F*cked to hell? As I recall he had a few bruises but outside of his leg being in a type of metallic cast, he was fine. Next issue he was up and running outside of his arm being in a sling. I'm basing this off of the main Civil War comic.

Sentry seemed to slightly tap Frank and sent him flying through a window. I don't know about it being 200 yards. I don't recall the building looking that far away once Punisher stopped bouncing. If you want to go by really high end feats, Captain America withstood a blast from Heroes Reborn verse Air Walker better than Thor or Iron Man I think.

I never doubted that Punisher could keep on fighting despite extreme injuries. I don't think Captain America has any instances where his been damaged that severely. At least none I can recall off of the top of my head. I guess you could argue Punisher has more high end will power showings than Cap. Durability showings however? I'm not sure I'd agree.

That was one punch to the hip, not ribs.

To me it didn't look like IM drew blood from Sentry.

Cap wins, btw.

Super Soldier wins both scenarios. He's not only faster, stronger, and basically tireless, he's also way more skilled. How can Frankie hope to win?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's not human in Shadow Land, he was human in a Shadow Land promo. There has only been mention of him in Shadow Land, and it mentioned that he was Frakencastle.

Cap 8/10 although Frank makes him work for it.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Honestly I don't even consider Cap peak human anymore.

Why not. Cap is the peak of human "potential". And he's been called the next step in human evolution.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as one remembers his true definition of "peak human" which is vastly different then Batman.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap 8/10 although Frank makes him work for it.

I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.

Originally posted by Juk3n
mm it's not though is it? Cap takes punisher everytime, there is not single physical area including damage soak (which says alot considering it's Punishers biggest strength), where Pun has an edge.

He's slower.
Less agile.
He's less skilled.
Has less experience.
Is weaker by half.
Plus Cap isnt likely to tire facing someone he's so physically superior to. And if Cap knows Franks CIS is off aned knows it's a fight for his life, it's even more of a steamroll.

imo ofcourse

Originally posted by SamZED
I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.
That maybe the case, but there's one important thing Frank is better at - killing. And it's CIS off for him. IMO that should give him an advantage.

People have been trying to kill Cap for 50 years, just what exactly does Punisher bring to the table that Cap hasnt faced before? He's a highly trained vigilante/merc/thug who on a good day swings just about a notch below Daredevil in physicality. Yeah sounds like a perfect recipe for defeating arguably earths greatest fighter... In melee combat to boot.

Originally posted by SamZED
I could swear there was a page with human Frank in shadowland. One little panel but he was clearly human, not undead.
That maybe the case, but there's one important thing Frank is better at - killing. And it's CIS off for him. IMO that should give him an advantage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap took 4-5 hits from Ironman, which was impressive to be sure, but he was ****ed all to hell after and had to have shit set in casts. Punisher took all that in stride (and a bit more before and after) in stride and kept going afterwards like nothing happened. Sentry knocked Frank flying like 200 yards through a wall and he was fine. Punisher is crazy, he's fought on two broke legs and kept going after a shot gun blew one of his ribs clean out of his body.

None of which he should be able to do. What are they smokin over at Marvel......

its possible. you would be amazed at what you could do if the pain wasnt a factor

in the eragon series galbatorix created soldiers that didnt have fear, pain, or a care for their own livelyhood but otherwise average humans. they would be getting kills with the bottom half of their bodies gone and insane shit like that

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That was one punch to the hip, not ribs.

To me it didn't look like IM drew blood from Sentry.

Cap wins, btw.

Really? Looked like ribs. Which would hurt more?

It's been a while, but I remember Sentry being taken aback from Stark's blow, and there being a drop of blood under his nose.

Originally posted by Juk3n
People have been trying to kill Cap for 50 years, just what exactly does Punisher bring to the table that Cap hasnt faced before? He's a highly trained vigilante/merc/thug who on a good day swings just about a notch below Daredevil in physicality. Yeah sounds like a perfect recipe for defeating arguably earths greatest fighter... In melee combat to boot.

You don't read Punisher you don't know what you're talking about. Most of their fights he'd done well and as I've stated 100 times this version is a lot tougher.

Originally posted by Trackz
you're correct. Frank is becoming human soon since I believe his series has been cancelled

What?

Originally posted by Deadline
You don't read Punisher you don't know what you're talking about. Most of their fights he'd done well and as I've stated 100 times [b]this version is a lot tougher.

What? [/B]