Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where did he say that? I have an idea of what issue and instance you're referring to and if its the same one i have in mind then you've misinterpreted it. 😬
Originally posted by TheTyrant
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7478/xmtdps121oz0.jpg
I agree with the general implication of the cited issue: while not *explicitly* stating she is more powerful than Galactus, the general tone definitely puts her on the same general level, with the "could" allowing for even greater degrees of power, though not as an absolute (again, just going by the panels). And Reed would be a good judge of comparing, for ballpark purposes...
*****
I also say DP, though as stated by some other posters, Odin would fight to the bitter end, and not go down easily... Thanos would "Batman" her with the Infinity Gauntlet, but that's about it...
Originally posted by TheTyrant
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7478/xmtdps121oz0.jpg
As i suspected.
I take it by you highlighting this scene for that specific point, that you haven't read the the whole of the Dark Phoenix Saga, or maybe you have but you overlooked key points made about Phoenix.
After the M'kraan crystal incident, Jean instinctively placed psychic circuit breakers in place to cut off her power to a level she could wield comfortably.
Thats why she went from saving the multiverse, to getting defeated by Magneto weeks later.
However Masterminds manipulations caused the Phoenix side of the personality to crave for its previous power levels, so there was an inner conflict between the opposing personalities with the dark side gradually winning and slowly breaking down the psychic circuit breakers giving Dark Phoenix access to more and more power.
Moira on doing readings of Phoenix said that her powers were increasing on a geometric curve with no end in sight.
The point that Reed got Phoenixes readings her power was on the increase she'd just defeated the X-men in Central Park and her powers were approaching Galactus level as she was slowly breaking down the circuit breakers.
It was at this point she's says something along the lines of how she is getting more powerful by the minute however she acknowledges that like it or not she still has limits. At which point she consumes that star in an effort to get closer to her previous levels. After which she would have exceeded Galactus' levels.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As i suspected.I take it by you highlighting this scene for that specific point, that you haven't read the the whole of the Dark Phoenix Saga, or maybe you have but you overlooked key points made about Phoenix.
After the M'kraan crystal incident, Jean instinctively placed psychic circuit breakers in place to cut off her power to a level she could wield comfortably.
Thats why she went from saving the multiverse, to getting defeated by Magneto weeks later.
However Masterminds manipulations caused the Phoenix side of the personality to crave for its previous power levels, so there was an inner conflict between the opposing personalities with the dark side gradually winning and slowly breaking down the psychic circuit breakers giving Dark Phoenix access to more and more power.
Moira on doing readings of Phoenix said that her powers were increasing on a geometric curve with no end in sight.
The point that Reed got Phoenixes readings her power was on the increase she'd just defeated the X-men in Central Park and her powers were approaching Galactus level as she was slowly breaking down the circuit breakers.
It was at this point she's says something along the lines of how she is getting more powerful by the minute however she acknowledges that like it or not she still has limits. At which point she consumes that star in an effort to get closer to her previous levels. After which she would have exceeded Galactus' levels.
I've read the Dark Phoenix saga I think. It's the one where Professor X engages Phoenix in a telepathic battle, then Phoenix somehow loses (I can't remember the context), but still lives. After a while they go to the Shi'ar and X-people battle the Imperial Guards and that is when she reverts back into DP and then kills herself with... A... Gun 😐 tbh, Reed had never seen a fed Galactus at the time he commented on Phoenix. Unless you're talking about a hungry Galactus, I was right. She was on par with a fed Galactus and had surpassed a weak Galactus. I also recall the full Phoenix Force struggling to put down a hungry Galactus in Excalibur 61. And it was the Phoenix because after the Necrom fight when she went into a coma, she opened herself to the force and they merged. An extremely well-fed Galactus > Phoenix imho.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
I've read the Dark Phoenix saga I think. It's the one where Professor X engages Phoenix in a telepathic battle, then Phoenix somehow loses (I can't remember the context), but still lives. After a while they go to the Shi'ar and X-people battle the Imperial Guards and that is when she reverts back into DP and then kills herself with... A... Gun 😐 tbh, Reed had never seen a fed Galactus at the time he commented on Phoenix. Unless you're talking about a hungry Galactus, I was right. She was on par with a fed Galactus and had surpassed a weak Galactus. I also recall the full Phoenix Force struggling to put down a hungry Galactus in Excalibur 61. And it was the Phoenix because after the Necrom fight when she went into a coma, she opened herself to the force and they merged. An extremely well-fed Galactus > Phoenix imho.
It goes without saying an extremely well fed Galactus is just absurdly powerful. However even then it doesn't represent Galactus's true power because he is constantly burning energy to keep Abraxas at bay.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
I've read the Dark Phoenix saga I think. It's the one where Professor X engages Phoenix in a telepathic battle, then Phoenix somehow loses (I can't remember the context), but still lives. After a while they go to the Shi'ar and X-people battle the Imperial Guards and that is when she reverts back into DP and then kills herself with... A... Gun 😐 tbh, Reed had never seen a fed Galactus at the time he commented on Phoenix. Unless you're talking about a hungry Galactus, I was right. She was on par with a fed Galactus and had surpassed a weak Galactus. I also recall the full Phoenix Force struggling to put down a hungry Galactus in Excalibur 61. And it was the Phoenix because after the Necrom fight when she went into a coma, she opened herself to the force and they merged. An extremely well-fed Galactus > Phoenix imho.
At the time Reed made the comment he'd encountered Galactus many a time, furthermore he stated at that point prior to Phoenix eating a star that he powers could rival Galactus.'
When you put that all in context, i.e Phoenix had circuit breakers in place cutting off her powers and yet her dark side was breaking these down to get back to her former levels, Moiras readings show her powers growing along a curve with no end in sight, its clear that Dark Phoenix is far greater than Galactus, she however had self imposed restrictions on her powers and Reeds readings came before she'd eaten a star and even after eating it she was at full power.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I repeat...DP crushed Dormammu in What If Wolverine became Lord of the Vampires; if she can beat him as quickly and decisively as she did (and Dormmy is, bare minimum, an Odin level character and arguably more powerful) then Odin+Thanos get stomped here...
Keep repeating because no one cares. What If's don't count.
What's in canon is the PF getting killed by laser guns, dragged about and caged by alien space ships, and smashed into a billion pieces by a mutant named Xorn. The PF's durability sucks and that's canon.
Lulz at people using Reed's statement as evidence that Jean would win. She could rival Galactus.
Odin has been stated to rival Galactus more than once. IRCC Thor once stated Galactus rivaled Odin's power in front of Richards actually and he didn't dispute the claim.
These kind of statements aren't actual conclusive evidence of anything.
An even bigger lulz at the Phoenix wanking. A toss up between Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet and the Dark Phoenix? Unless I missed some serious feats, people need to GTFO with statements like that.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its irrelevant. Dark Phoenix is a mental state, it has nothing to do with the powers of the avatar.
Eh? My opinion on who wins this match is based on what I saw from Jean in the Dark Phoenix Saga.
I separate the level of Phoenix incarnations by story arcs that I've read.
Question: When Rachel possessed the Phoenix Force, did she have a significant boost/lose in power between her Excalibur period and the fight with Galactus?
Another Question: What's are the Phoenix's two greatest feats of power?
If you do answer these questions Galacticstorm. Provide references.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lulz at people using Reed's statement as evidence that Jean would win. She could rival Galactus.Odin has been stated to rival Galactus more than once. IRCC Thor once stated Galactus rivaled Odin's power in front of Richards actually and he didn't dispute the claim.
These kind of statements aren't actual conclusive evidence of anything.
Youre right such statements alone when unsupported by on panel feats are inconclusive. Reed made the statement before Dark Phoenix went on to eat a star. A feat beyond the vast majority of Galactus' and Dark Phoenix was still not at full power.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
An even bigger lulz at the Phoenix wanking. A toss up between Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet and the Dark Phoenix? Unless I missed some serious feats, people need to GTFO with statements like that.
It seems you've missed quite a lot, like the premises of this thread because forgive me if im wrong but no mention of the Infinity Gauntlet was made by the thread starter.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Question: When Rachel possessed the Phoenix Force, did she have a significant boost/lose in power between her Excalibur period and the fight with Galactus?Another Question: What's are the Phoenix's two greatest feats of power?
If you do answer these questions Galacticstorm. Provide references.
These are not new issues or new points youre bringing up which necessitate me going to the effort of uploading pics and posting them. The fact that you do not know what is common knowledge on these forums because of regular debates and numerous explicit on panel showings is your shortcoming. I will not cater for that.
Have a read of the Phoenix Respect thread-
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t473316.html
Once youre done, come back and vote Phoenix. 😱
@GalacticStorm
Have a read of the Phoenix Respect thread-http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t473316.html
Once youre done, come back and vote Phoenix. 😱
GS, I don't have time now but do you have that scan from the Days of Future Present arc where the adult Franklin Richards from the alternate future Rachel Summers is from comes to Earth 616?
Long story short, Rachel is about to send him back when Reed's machine's power sensors go crazy. Her power levels register off the scales, rivaling those of Galactus. RACHEL SUMMERS, the GIMPEST of all the Phoenix Avatars.
Odin + Thanos stand no chance vs DP.
Yet again, we are faced with a situation of hyperbole over on panel feats. In Theory DP should win. However, DP has taken so many losses to lesser than these two. Maybe it's her mental state.. who knows, but on panel evidence has her losing more than winning. Period.
Rage brought up the IG and Thanos... because of the wanking that was going on in this thread. If people actually believe DP has a chance against Thanos... well that illustrates how misinformed they truly are, nothing more.
I hope the multiversal feat for DP isn't going to be brought up because there are clear issues with it.
In the end, DP should win, but in a comic Odin and Thanos prevail. Based on showings... Odin and Thanos prevail.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yet again, we are faced with a situation of hyperbole over on panel feats. In Theory DP should win. However, DP has taken so many losses to lesser than these two. Maybe it's her mental state.. who knows, but on panel evidence has her losing more than winning. Period.Rage brought up the IG and Thanos... because of the wanking that was going on in this thread. If people actually believe DP has a chance against Thanos... well that illustrates how misinformed they truly are, nothing more.
I hope the multiversal feat for DP isn't going to be brought up because there are clear issues with it.
In the end, DP should win, but in a comic Odin and Thanos prevail. Based on showings... Odin and Thanos prevail.
Dark Phoenix was limited due to self imposed psychic restraints on her power that her Jean Grey side placed on her power. Her powers levels however were steadily increasing as her dark side eroded those barriers and prior to consuming a star she was rivalling Galactus. After consuming the energy of that star she would have been beyond Galactus who routinely is stated to be at full power upon consuming a planet.
One of an avatars abilities is to transform itself into the Phoenix energy firebird. In this state it is as canon, mutable, indestructible life force. It can be absorbed and used by someone and come out the other end just fine as seen on panel. Its energy matrix can be blown apart and it will still be fine. Thanos isnt even worth mentioning, but Odin cannot do anything to destroy Dark Phoenix because it is not possible. She is more powerful than him and she could absorb his power.
Furthermore the only reason Dark Phoenix was defeated was because she defeated herself. The lives of her friends were at stake and so her good side fought to do the right thing, limiting her powers and forcing herself to commit suicide.
This would not be the case in this matchup. As per forum rules, the characters would be bloodlusted and fighting to the best of their abilities. Dark Phoenixes low showing were all self inflicted.
DP wins.
Originally posted by zopzop
@GalacticStormGS, I don't have time now but do you have that scan from the Days of Future Present arc where the adult Franklin Richards from the alternate future Rachel Summers is from comes to Earth 616?
Long story short, Rachel is about to send him back when Reed's machine's power sensors go crazy. Her power levels register off the scales, rivaling those of Galactus. RACHEL SUMMERS, the GIMPEST of all the Phoenix Avatars.
Odin + Thanos stand no chance vs DP.
I've read it but i dont have it on this new pc. I'll look for it though 🙂 👆
