Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Why would I look for that? The mere fact that you had to talk with the writer about it means you were pretty bothered by it. Probably a little more than merely screaming PIS...
PIS is PIS, no matter who writes it.I haven't screamed PIS. I've claimed it was PIS. You however, were so bothered by this you decided to argue with me about it.
Because you claimed I screamed PIS? Which I don't believe I did.
I simply asked him to confirm what he said in an interview. I could spare a few minutes to type a message. I specifically remember going out of my way, to point out that the fight wasn't nearly as bad as some people were claiming when you take into account some factors.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I figured merely repeating you would stop you talking about it. But you feel the need to still argue about it when I use your own words... lol.
I was simply pointing out the fact that writers went out of their way to establish the probes as significant threats. While other heroes had to go to some extreme measures to defeat the Probes, Superman cut loose and was able to just plow right through them.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Anyway, like you said yourself, it's different. Like I said, it happens all the time in comics. Hope just did it against the barrier Thor tried his hardest to break. Surfer beat Firelord many times, when Thor could only stalemate him. Surfer beat Bill. Surfer destroyed Rune's hand with the IG... If ABC logic sates your appetite, then I'm sure you'll be happy with everyone else doing it as well.
Anyway, Thor destroyed everyone of his peers. People that were as strong as him, as powerful, as versatile. He didn't merely run through probes using powers that his peers lacked (IE, strength on his level, blasts on his level, etc). Flash, Kyle, and Wonder Woman I believe all lack Superman's power for destruction, in this ABC comparison. The people Thor crushed were seen as almost every way his equals in power. Crushing your actual peers > crushing Canon fodder.
I can't believe I even need to explain this.
I'm not using generic ABC logic you goof. Superman directly outperformed his usual peers in combat against the same threat and that was what the story apparently intended to show. He proved that he had more raw power than them in this story. Usually the high end Leaguers would be near equals in this category. Albeit some would compensate by using different abilities. Why is acknowledging what Superman did in that event difficult for you? The references? Unnecessary.
Thor and Hercules once encountered an opponent named Armak. Hercules was swiftly defeated. Thor on the other hand went on to go toe to toe with him. That seen would support Hercules being inferior to Thor as Thor outperformed him in the same story. You can't pass that off as simply ABC logic. He outperformed him directly. Of course context matters in such situation, but that scene was pretty straightforward. I'm not trying to argue that Thor is superior to Norrin because he beat generic villain No. 345 that defeated Norrin years ago. If he managed to triumph or overcome something that Norrin specifically failed to? That is some evidence but wouldn't be as concrete if this happened in the same story. I hope you understand my point.
It was not as impressive or as valid as him defeating the JLA directly, but it sure will do as some secondary evidence.
Did I not point out that defeating Probes would not be impressive as actually defeating the JLA/his peers etc. in the previous post?
Either way, I don't reall care about OWAW. I initially compared it to Blood and Thunder because a lot of people seem to regard that even as a very bright spot in Superman's history.
Blood and Thunder was a great showing for Thor, and like I said before -this will be the last time- you can moan or call it PIS all you want. I don't care. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But you -Surfer fans etc. in particular- sure as hell won't be able to dismiss that arc as evidence by claiming PIS. I assume your intelligent enough to realize that. I just want it to be clear.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Like I said, pretty much took him out.
Surfer was down and not out. I believe if he had tried a more aggressive approach he would have lasted longer.
Um
1. I definitely consider thanks and madam to be members of the watch. Thanks because warlock as much as said so when the original dividing of the gems occurred and the watch were those that guarded the gems... Maxam was the only member of the watch who didn't have a gem...
And as for the power levels... Realistically if thanks was on the field it's game over for team Thor... Period... Sure thanes had a tough time with Thor before... But an infinity watch thanks holds the freaking reality gem in his hands....
To be honest if watch were to snatch up the time gem the battle would be over also...
But based on yhe I telligence of thanks and Adam I gotta say It goes to the watch
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWell, since you want to go on with this...
Because you claimed I screamed PIS? Which I don't believe I did.I simply asked him to confirm what he said in an interview. I could spare a few minutes to type a message. I specifically remember going out of my way, to point out that the fight wasn't nearly as bad as some people were claiming when you take into account some factors.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahahaha. My god. facepalmThat's horrible. I'd have absolutely no problem with Hulk beating Thor in a slug fest, but wow. My god, I wish Hulk had said "Stop hitting yourself". That would have made this seen Hall of Fame worthy.
So the big question is, is this cannon? It's apparently a sequel to Marvel Adventures #9 which I know isn't cannon. So I'm not sure.
And in the last scan, is Thor still holding the hammer or is the Hulk overpowering the enchantment?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Scratch that, it was in Marvel Comics Presents #9 which I guess is cannon, which means this is cannon. Lulz.Apparently the second story isn't cannon as it involves Maestro, so I can see why it might be considered non cannon as a whole, but we need actual evidence such as a statement from Marvel or the writer to clarify. Personally I haven't read this book myself but from what I can gather nothing from the first story labels it as non cannon as far as I can tell.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to the writer, Thor was not intended to be wounded as bad or something like that. He blamed it on the artist apparently. He should have checked the final result of his issue like any writer should because that shit was just inexcusable.And he also apparently didn't have Thor say shit like "Gurgle." in his original script.
I have a hard time believing all that. I mean he didn't even read the final copy of his own issue?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think you have actually read their fights.It's the same bull that writer was spewing. The Hulk has always been shown as stronger etc. Do people even read the comics or just watch the animated garbage?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bleeding some? He bleed a lot. Thor is not invulnerable but his way too durable for that too happen in four hits and have his nose split in 1. His been pounded on by Adamantine, Uru weapons etc. of beings in Hulk's league. Heck the simple fact he has tanked being repeatedly pounded on by the Destroyer whose superior to the Hulk and is made out of Uru is all I need as evidence.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Your evidence was non cannon animated shit.I don't know how any retard can actually think this shit is logical. If Hulk beats Thor in a slug fest, that's fine. Thor's beaten the Hulk. The Hulk splitting Thor's nose in one blow and knocking him out in 3 is however ridiculous and just plain stupid.
Only someone who hasn't actually read their fights or comics things the Hulk is far more durable or stronger than Thor.
And apparently the story might be non cannon. A Thor fan emailed Quesada and he said it was non cannon, but it's not clear whether he meant only the Maestro part or referred to it by Maestro as a whole. Seems to be the former though.
Here it is:
http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=thor-2010031118561355
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalmJust what I thought. He wrote this for some shock value and not to have the issue forgotten like it would have been otherwise.
Apparently he tosses a bone by saying that Bruce Banner did not remember correctly when he says "Yeah....right" etc.
He also says the Hulk won because it was a Hulk one shot. If it was a Thor one shot, he would have won or if it was a Hulk vs. Thor book it would have been a tie.
😂
I want this guy to do a Thor one shot. BAD.
He states however that although the two are fairly even, he thinks at that point the Hulk was stronger. He must not have read all the fights where Thor fights an enraged Hulk for hours.
Also Thor wasn't out of it either. The fight would have continued if it wasn't a one shot apparently.
I don't like him.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Just read more of the interview. He makes the fight seem less bad.Thor is winning, then he gloats and the Hulk catches his hand while Thor is too stunned to defend himself. The Hulk then runs away. So it's not even a real win. Apparently the fight would have continued if the one shot was longer.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I just re-read it, and Banner says "Yeah, right.....then I woke up".Even Banner thinks he remembered the fight incorrectly.
Meh, I was overreacting and so are a great deal of Thor fans.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=312488&page=6Just went on a little bit of a pointless rant on the writer. I feel better now. stoned
I except a ton of "Well I never actually said PIS" later today, so don't dissapoint Rage.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusK, I just said that I repeated what you said. 😂
I was simply pointing out the fact that writers went out of their way to establish the probes as significant threats. While other heroes had to go to some extreme measures to defeat the Probes, Superman cut loose and was able to just plow right through them.
I'm not sure if you want a response to this, or if you even need one since you'll argue about it as if I said something counteractive.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusBut you are using ABC logic. Funny.
I'm not using generic ABC logic you goof. Superman directly outperformed his usual peers in combat against the same threat and that was what the story apparently intended to show. He proved that he had more raw power than them in this story. Usually the high end Leaguers would be near equals in this category. Albeit some would compensate by using different abilities. Why is acknowledging what Superman did in that event difficult for you? The references? Unnecessary.
They did compensate though, they just didn't blow by the Probes.
I am acknowledging what he did. I've been doing it the whole time. Your eyes are there for a reason. I'm just saying that what Thor did was a lot more stupid.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusOh OK.
Thor and Hercules once encountered an opponent named Armak. Hercules was swiftly defeated. Thor on the other hand went on to go toe to toe with him. That seen would support Hercules being inferior to Thor as Thor outperformed him in the same story. You can't pass that off as simply ABC logic. He outperformed him directly. Of course context matters in such situation, but that scene was pretty straightforward. I'm not trying to argue that Thor is superior to Norrin because he beat generic villain No. 345 that defeated Norrin years ago. If he managed to triumph or overcome something that Norrin specifically failed to? That is some evidence but wouldn't be as concrete if this happened in the same story. I hope you understand my point.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusK. Except when powers make fights.
It was not as impressive or as valid as him defeating the JLA directly, but it sure will do as some secondary evidence.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYes. You argued with me when I repeated it.
Did I not point out that defeating Probes would not be impressive as actually defeating the JLA/his peers etc. in the previous post?
You're still making it seem as if this is all Superman needs to beat the JLA:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was not as impressive or as valid as him defeating the JLA directly, but it sure will do as some secondary evidence.
So ya. Your whole basis for this argument is that *NOT* ABC logic would show that Superman is far above his peers. 😬
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusEvidently, you do. It's your comparison to make everything Thor did look alright without actually addressing what went on in the issue itself.
Either way, I don't reall care about OWAW. I initially compared it to Blood and Thunder because a lot of people seem to regard that even as a very bright spot in Superman's history.
Anyway, at least Superman had another reason other than becoming just angry. That's where his 'dynamic strength' kicks in. 🙂
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYou do care though. Otherwise you wouldn't intitiate an argument just because I called it PIS. Nevermind, that's probably just you being you arguing about everything negative said about Thor. You care so much about what everyone else thinks of Thor that it's hilarious.
Blood and Thunder was a great showing for Thor, and like I said before -this will be the last time- you can moan or call it PIS all you want. I don't care. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But you -Surfer fans etc. in particular- sure as hell won't be able to dismiss that arc as evidence by claiming PIS. I assume your intelligent enough to realize that. I just want it to be clear.
Oh, but I think I can. It's in the rules afterall. I assume you're intelligent... nevermind, you're not that smart, only persistent. There's only like two people on the forum who accept that arc as proof of anything. It was just a big Thor wank turned into a Thanos wank, and you absolutely love the first half, so you'll do anything to prove it was great without actually proving anything. It funny how you don't accept the Thanos part though, since you'd think a guy that stalemated a super tough Thor with the PG would be able to easily rip through regular Thor... but logic doesn't have to be on your side for you to be right apparently... but that's neither here nor there.
Either way, I'm not going to accept it. If you do, then good for you, and you will accept any Thor feat, so even better for you. 👆
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusK. Pretty much took him out.
Surfer was down and not out. I believe if he had tried a more aggressive approach he would have lasted longer.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0One PIS, or shit feat can be overlooked. A whole issue of that though? Well that's a tough cumshot to swallow.
So it was PIS exemplified by further PIS... making it ultra-PIS...... instead of just... a good showing where BRB topples Thor like we know he can... and has... ? mhmm
If Thor was at a level where everything he did was acceptable in that series without question, then what Beta did would be considered PIS.
Right now, the Beta fight is the only one that makes sense against Thor, except Thanos of course. 🙂
^ Beta Ray Bill can fight Thor. Beta Ray Bill can topple Thor even. That's what happened at one point in Blood and Thunder.
But according to your interpretation of Thor's own performance throughout the storyline, well... BRB toppling him must have been the greatest single piece of PIS throughout it -- since Thor must have obviously been infused with super-PIS abilities or ambiguously amped -- and no way could Beta Ray Bill possibly contend with this uber-mensch Thor.
Or... Beta Ray Bill toppled Thor because he can do so when pushed to it as long as Thor wasn't uber-amped... and all things were actually considered equal.
If you're willing to accept that possibility, we could discuss every single other feat/fight you might have a problem with.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Beta Ray Bill can fight Thor. Beta Ray Bill can topple Thor even. That's what happened at one point in Blood and Thunder.But according to your interpretation of Thor's own performance throughout the storyline, well... BRB toppling him must have been the greatest single piece of PIS throughout it -- since Thor must have obviously been infused with super-PIS abilities or ambiguously amped -- and no way could Beta Ray Bill possibly contend with this uber-mensch Thor.
Or... Beta Ray Bill toppled Thor because he can do so when pushed to it as long as Thor wasn't uber-amped... and all things were actually considered equal.
If you're willing to accept that possibility, we could discuss every single other feat/fight you might have a problem with.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Right now, the Beta fight is the only one that makes sense against Thor
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebSo if that's in line with Thor's natural performance against allies who are trying to cajole him while he's utterly insane (and who are forced to step up when Thor goes all insane on them... if they have a chance)... what feats/fights are so PIS'y that the entire storyline must be discarded as "PIS" or explained away as evincing an "ambiguous amp"?
Right now, the Beta fight is the only one that makes sense against Thor, except Thanos of course.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I never said it must be explained as an amp. I said I'd accept it.
So if that's in line with Thor's natural performance against allies who are trying to cajole him while he's utterly insane (and who are forced to step up when Thor goes all insane on them... if they have a chance)... what feats/fights are so PIS'y that the entire storyline must be discarded as "PIS" or explained away as evincing an "ambiguous amp"?
One shotting Drax with PG.
One shotting Surfer when Surfer got serious/easily beating Surfer.
Easily beating Surfer/Warlock, and two shotting Surfer with lightning in that fight.
Pretty effortlessly beating up Maxam/Drax.
So ya, except the Beta fight(s), without the PG.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, since you want to go on with this...
The last one's my favorite. 🙂I except a ton of "Well I never actually said PIS" later today, so don't dissapoint Rage.
I didn't scream PIS which I assume was a major point as you claimed I did to prove a point. Or something. I forget.
Me bitching and moaning about the fight and the writer is standard fanboy shit. Do you want me to post my actual discussions with the writer?
I'm well aware of what I said by the way. I went back to that thread and re-read -most as I don't have the time to search every post- what I posted.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
K, I just said that I repeated what you said. 😂I'm not sure if you want a response to this, or if you even need one since you'll argue about it as if I said something counteractive.
I can read. I just decided to point out some information that I remembered. You're acting as if there was anything to dispute.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
But you are using ABC logic. Funny.
I know he outperformed them. Like I said, using the raw power that his 'peers' lack and that they've never had.They did compensate though, they just didn't blow by the Probes.
I am acknowledging what he did. I've been doing it the whole time. Your eyes are there for a reason. I'm just saying that what Thor did was a lot more stupid.
*Sigh*
So how else is the writer supposed to indicate the probes were legitimate threats outside of word service?
I pointed out that the Probes were able to beat the JLA because they lacked the raw power. This is what makes Superman defeating them so impressive. He did something his other peers were unable to accomplish. You can't simply write off the intentions of the event -Superman outperforming his peers- as simple ABC logic.
I don't recall any heroes defeating the Probes without any amps or weapons off the top of my head.
If you can acknowledge what he did, then why is this such a big discussion? Superman defeated Probes that defeated the JLA. He directly outperformed them, showing he has more raw power than they do (At least in that story) which is a big deal (At least to me) Why does such a simple observation cause so much problems with you?
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh OK.
So it's like the time Surfer beat Durok, when Thor couldn't?
Or the time Surfer beat Murrungo who made every hero look like shit, and Murrungo's minions were able to capture almost every hero on Earth (Thor)?
Or when Surfer was able to get Millenius to yield when Thor got his shit kicked in by him?
I see. ABC logic in the same comic is accepted, and 'concrete'. But ABC logic in a different comic is overlooked. Good thing I followed your logic with those examples. 🙂
Like I said, context matters. Silver Surfer defeated Durok by using time travel. You can use that as evidence that Norrin is more resourceful than Thor or at least uses his versatility more often. That's fine.
Once again, context matters. Mrrungu Mu’s troops defeated Thor and all the other superhumans –except a few- off panel, most likely with a surprise attack like they did against Richards. Mrrungu Mu was treating Norrin like a child I believe until his power supply was cut off.
What? You need to re-read that issue.
It doesn't have to be the same exact comic. Where did I say it was overlooked? Can you not read? I simply stated it would not be as definitive/concrete. I thought it would be obvious that Thor performing or accomplishing something that Surfer could not in the same story would be more impressive than him accomplish something that Norrin could not decades before or later. You have to apply some common sense to these things. There might be other factors, like character’s holding back specifically etc. It all depends on the scenes.
Have you understood how stupid and idiotic it is to write off direct comparison as ABC logic? Do you not see the flaw in this stance?
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
K. Except when powers make fights.Yes. You argued with me when I repeated it.
facepalm
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You're still making it seem as if this is all Superman needs to beat the JLA:So ya. Your whole basis for this argument is that *NOT* ABC logic would show that Superman is far above his peers. 😬
Except I'm not.
My argument is that Superman showed in direct comparison, that he has more raw power than his usual peers when pushed in that story. That to me is impressive and something that I think is worth highlighting.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Evidently, you do. It's your comparison to make everything Thor did look alright without actually addressing what went on in the issue itself.
"It's good though, because Superman did THIS!"Anyway, at least Superman had another reason other than becoming just angry. That's where his 'dynamic strength' kicks in. 🙂
No, I really don't. OWAW was the best Superman era I could think off of the top of my head.
Lol. I said that Blood and Thunder was to Thor as OWAW was to Superman. I was going to use a Hulk/World War Hulk example and simply used Superman because I thought he was closer to Thor. I wasn't trying to use OWAW to justify Thor's strength in Blood and Thunder. That would be what other Thor feats are for. 🙂
I personally don't subscribe to the idea Superman has true dynamic strength.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You do care though. Otherwise you wouldn't intitiate an argument just because I called it PIS. Nevermind, that's probably just you being you arguing about everything negative said about Thor. You care so much about what everyone else thinks of Thor that it's hilarious.
No, I really don't. Initiate an argument? Lol. You entered this thread moaning about P.I.S. like some f*cking child, and I took the liberty of trying to address your points. Just because I'm discussing something with you, it doesn't mean I give a shit. If I cared that much, I'd have had a breakdown by now.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh, but I think I can. It's in the rules afterall. I assume you're intelligent... nevermind, you're not that smart, only persistent. There's only like two people on the forum who accept that arc as proof of anything. It was just a big Thor wank turned into a Thanos wank, and you absolutely love the first half, so you'll do anything to prove it was great without actually proving anything. It funny how you don't accept the Thanos part though, since you'd think a guy that stalemated a super tough Thor with the PG would be able to easily rip through regular Thor... but logic doesn't have to be on your side for you to be right apparently... but that's neither here nor there.
If we get to refuse anything that we don't like, then this board would go downhill.
facepalm Yea, I'm sure there's only two people who have used that arc or accepted it as proof. Even on this board. Meh, you can expect some Thanos wank when it's written by Starlin. Of course I love the first half. It was great for Thor. I never denied that.
Haha what? When have I not accepted the Thanos part recently? I've come out directly and said I'm completely fine with the Thanos/Thor fight on multiple occasions you idiot.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Either way, I'm not going to accept it. If you do, then good for you, and you will accept any Thor feat, so even better for you. 👆
It doesn't work that way but you can do whatever you like. I'll just note to avoid logical arguments with you because you're special and get to choose and pick what counts and what doesn't. 👆
The time Thor was shot by a bullet? Instead of using something resembling an actual argument and the multiple instances that contradict it, I'll simply stick my head up my ass and scream PIS.
I would.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
K. Pretty much took him out.
I don't consider Thor stunning a Norrin who isn't directly fighting back for at best a panel as him taking Norrin out.
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebRight.
I never said it must be explained as an amp. I said I'd accept it.One shotting Drax with PG.
One shotting Surfer when Surfer got serious/easily beating Surfer.
Easily beating Surfer/Warlock, and two shotting Surfer with lightning in that fight.
Pretty effortlessly beating up Maxam/Drax.So ya, except the Beta fight(s), without the PG.
You mean when he knocked PG Drax down? PG Drax can get knocked down.
It would be a one-shot, if you ignored how much Thor was hitting him beforehand when Surfer was holding back trying to help BRB.
It wasn't easy. That was Thor letting his full power loose. And we already know about the beating that Surfer took beforehand.
Pretty effortlessly when they decided to immediately give up as soon as the PG popped out?
So... ya?
Originally posted by King Castle
did anyone notice that in issue 25 blood and thunder warlock was dropping asgardian gods like they were nothing with karmic blast?makes u question if thor was not resistant due to the soul tampering and being unbalance rather then being a god.
Not hard taking cannon fodder gods.
Originally posted by King Castle
asgardian soul is more fortified then a mortal..its what he said when he failed to ko thor with a blast although he did stagger him..
i chalk it up to his spiritual instability that allowed thor to stay conscious and not shocked.
Thor is infinitely stronger than a normal Asgardian though.