Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Juggernaut still had his helmet on. So unless Onslaught tore his helmet off, mind-whammied him, and then nicely placed his helmet back on before punting him from Canada, it pretty much wasn't telepathy.
Which means he isn't "invincible."
Juggernaut sometimes retains his powers, sometimes he doesn't.
So in my opinion, Juggernaut's "invincibility" and "unstoppability" have their limits. And I personally think WBH exceeds them by a wide margin.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666Knocking him around isn't hard to do. Skaar knocked him into orbit with a slightly amped Oldpower punch. He's not the "immovable" Juggernaut.
So assuming Juggernaut was at his optimum, do you think knocking him across the city would KO him? In which case Superman should be able to beat him silly.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666You want a slugfest and we've given you examples where he's just been beat down where his "invincibility" or "immovability" isn't negated by magic.
So there are times when he lost because of that?
Doesn't there exist ANY example at ANY point where Classic Juggernaut was bested in a slugfest? He's a pretty old character to my knowledge, so someone should have done that by now.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666I'm saying that Juggernaut's "invincibility" and "immovability" can be overpowered by WBH. WWH pretty much already stalemated him.
Are you saying WBH is more resistant and invulnerable to harm than Juggernaut?
Originally posted by amnesiaa.) Secret Wars (both I and II) are very much canon.
PR beyonder as is pre retcon beyonder. secret wars 1,2 isn't canon. He never killed death he never defeated any celestial.
b.) Beyonder did kill Death. It was even referenced in her own OHOTMU bio:
c.) Beyonder's battle with the Celestials is also canon. They, apparently, just 'let' him win (F4 #319.)
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In all honesty, one of the only things retconned from the SW series' was the Beyonder himself -- who was retconned from a true omnipotent, into half of a cube being. But in light of recent events, I have once again began to question his retcons as a whole.
Originally posted by Galan007
a.) Secret Wars (both I and II) are very much canon.b.) Beyonder did kill Death. It was even referenced in her own OHOTMU bio:
c.) Beyonder's battle with the Celestials is also canon. They, apparently, just 'let' him win (F4 #319.)
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In all honesty, one of the only things retconned from the SW series' was the Beyonder himself -- who was retconned from a true omnipotent, into half of a cube being. But in light of recent events, I have once again began to question his retcons as a whole.
I stand corrected, but that's pretty stupid.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Knocking him around isn't hard to do. Skaar knocked him into orbit with a slightly amped Oldpower punch. He's not the "immovable" Juggernaut.
You want a slugfest and we've given you examples where he's just been beat down where his "invincibility" or "unstoppability" isn't negated by magic.
I'm saying that Juggernaut's "invincibility" and "unstoppability" can be overpowered by WBH. WWH pretty much already stalemated him.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666It's not easy. But it's far from impossible.
So you're saying it's easy (for someone like WBH) to knock him out? I just want your opinion.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666If War Hulk can overcome his "unstoppability" enchantment, I see WBH overcoming his "invincibility" enchantment. Because clearly his "invincibility" enchantment has several holes in it already, e.g., electricity and ultra sonics.
Fixed.
And yes, you did raise two examples, but the Nimrod one, as I think you'd agree, is irrelevant since Hulk can't pull off something like that.
That leaves us with one genuine example of Onslaught KO'ing him, but I personally feel that since something like the Godblast didn't budge him, an attack like that shouldn't have put him down. Remember my initial stipulation, both characters are to fight at their optimum.
Originally posted by Ladies_Man_666He literally matched him IMHO. And WWH wasn't even near the levels of rage he felt against Ironman or as WBH.
Fixed again. 🙂
I seriously doubt WWH would have won if they'd continued fighting. He couldn't break his momentum, he didn't hurt him. Juggy did lose, though, but that wouldn't happen if BFR wasn't allowed.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big CPhysical force has stopped him, e.g., electricity/ultra sonics. Narrowing it down to physical strength applied by a person is a bit too convenient for me.
i dont think physical strength can actually over power juggs enchantmentsonly high levels of tech and magic can
war hulk had tech
Because he's certainly not immune to physical force. He's been sent reeling and toppled by punches, he's had his armor crushed, he's had his eyes cut out, etc.
And as far as I've read, the Celestial enhancements just amped his strength to the point where it overpowered Juggernaut's "unstoppability" enhancement. I don't think Apocalypse was using the Celestial amp to negate or dispel it. But it's arguable.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Yup. Even the writers' responses in the "Green Mail" section of various Hulk comics only refer to Hulk's strength having been amped when he was War.
And as far as I've read, the Celestial enhancements just amped his strength to the point where it overpowered Juggernaut's "unstoppability" enhancement. I don't think Apocalypse was using the Celestial amp to negate or dispel it. But it's arguable.
