DS Bastila Shan vs. ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi

Originally posted by truejedi this means Juhani and Jolee were crap. Who ever heard of getting stunned for an entire battle? lol, makes this "feat" by bastilla pretty crappy, to stun 2 jedi for an entire battle.

that didn't even happen to Johun and HE was fighting Bane.

Problem lies in your head actually.

Being stunned for an entire battle and getting dropped by TK is obviously the same thing. Shame on you TJ, get those squirrels out of your head.

When was Juhani stunned by Bastila? I brought Jolee and Canderous with me to the Star Forge.

And we rocked.

Although Advent's evaluation is well supported and reasoned out, I disagree strongly.

If we accept the various assertions about Bastila as canon (I don't think I'll get very far arguing the opposite, since there's already been ten pages of this) there is still the question of whether or not the character can defeat Kenobi at all. I do not believe that she can.

Kenobi is a historically relevant master of the lightsaber, in a history spanning tens of thousands of years. He is capable of meeting blades with some of the deadliest beings in the galaxy and coming out alive. More specifically, he has crossed blades several times with a dark side Jar'Kai user that (in my estimation) eclipses Bastila as a combatant: Assaj Ventress.

Not only did Obi-Wan embarrass her on several occasions, he managed to defend against her Force powers as well. He is shown countering her telekinesis here, and in the Clone Wars film is shown to be her superior in Force-assisted acrobatics. (Look it up.) As far as physical Force attacks, he is at least competent (if not adept) at self defense. (To my knowledge, Ventress has been shown to know at least two of the more esoteric Force powers: a Dark Side trance that Bane, at least, was unaware of, and some form of Necromancy. Neither of these subtler techniques have been used as a direct attack as of yet.) It is not fair to declare a character to be uniquely defenseless in regards to a particular area of combat (in this case, Force combat) when the attacker is none other than Count Gently Loving Dooku of Sereno. To succumb to an attack from Dooku, who is uniquely prone to including Force maneuvers during combat (in quantities and degrees far outweighing any other user in the mythos) is no shame.

Since Kenobi is a better bladesman almost by default, the question came down to Force usage. Losing to Dooku is not enough to conclude that he is incapable of defending against Force attacks; the video I linked and his Force-push contest with Skywalker during Ep.III indicate that basic attacks, at least, will not be sufficient to put the master out of the running.

I'm pretty sure Advent actually has left now and won't be able to see your post, and I don't think it's one of those times when somebody says that they're going to leave but still views the forum for a while afterwards. Unless she hasn't been logging in (I have a device that bypasses the invisible mode feature of this fourm; it is how I was able to discover that Zephiel still visits here).

why are YOU still here and Gideon isn't? That's the question. Reported for socking.

Zampano makes some pretty solid points.

so did I... haha, give all the credit to red though, that is fine. : )

I appreciate the reporting, truejedi, but please don't jab fingers at me like it is my fault Gideon was banned. I had nothing to do with it.

i really didn't know the report goes specifically to you. And i certainly wasn't just blaming you Neb's survival. : ) sorry if it came across that way.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Zampano makes some pretty solid points.

BUMP B*TCHES!

Revan's strength in the force is never quantified however. A comparison with an unknown does not make an unknown a known.

Revan's combat abilities are unknown. There is no doubt that he is an extremely powerful Force user, up with some of the greatest masters of all time. While laughable when used in a versus thread, the fact that Kreia was in awe of his power speaks volumes considering the giaz she hangs around with. Also it is constantly brought up and reinforced in the game how powerful Revan is.

I seem to remember Yoda walking into the Senate chamber and crushing two "elite-master level combatants" into a wall.

Motherf*cking Yoda is hardly a fair point of comparison. >:[

I remember Count Dooku was accompanied by SBD's

Dooku was intentionately losing that one.

I remember Grievous was accompanied by chump droids,

Magnaguards? Other than against Ashoka's PIS powers I recall them being somewhat formidable.

and that Palpatine was protected in LOE by no-name Jedi, 4 of which were killed by Grievous.

Point.

The fact that someone defeated an unknown who was protecting and unknown does not make that person known.

Revan was a tactical genius. I hardly think he would allow himself to be personally gaurded by mooks.

This seems to speak more of the incompetence of the Jedi order than to the competence of the unknown bastilla.

Well I disagree. They would only have chosen her if they believed they had no other choice. Bastila was the only thing keeping them in the war. To have risked her they must have been absolutely sure that she would be a better choice than every other Jedi who could have gone in her place.

because an unknown is POSSIBLY considered stronger than an unknown does not make that unkown known.

Were you allergic to logic back then TJ? Geez.

This means she doesn't actually have an exotic range of attacks. Just TK. and possibly some sort of mental attack.

She also never displays those actual abilities so we don't know WHAT a mid-high level means in terms of either the game, or a real-life duel.

There are several attacks there that Obi-Wan has never had to fight against. His mental based powers in particular seem to be very weak considering the amount of effort it takes him and two others to perform a simple mind trick on a single bounty hunter. Bastila on the other hand is capable of performing a much more advanced attack to several beings at once.

Aslo see Advents post on page three on teh subject of her powers and abilities, its fantastic.

Canon quote saying that the chosen one was too impressive in the Force?

I don't need to prove someone wasn't impressive, you need to do teh opposite. Anakins abilities in the Force are average at best. Also he was completely ****ing insane in that fight. A sith not in control of his emotions will be controlled by them. His powers and focus would logically suffer.

no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTzGzVSHec

at 32s. Kenobi successfully holds off Dooku-Force attack and forces a saber battle. just as he will against Bastilla.

Force Lightning doesn't = every other force attack. It is very easy to block with a lightsaber blade. Plus as Advent said, he was obviously toying with him. A much more experienced and powerful Kenobi got pimpslapped by Dooku in half a second with the Force.

In Clone Wars Cartoons.

Vids or it didn't happen.

Those slow as **** bullets were just as fast as any blasters anyone has ever used onscreen in SW's. They fall under the same "slowed down speed" rules as Mace and SIdious's fight. If you really want to go with "how things look" on screen, then we can say that Bastilla only knows ONE SWING of her lghtsaber, and if any opponent bothers to use a move other than the classic block shown over and over on KOTOR, then she can be killed outright.

Nice try on this one.

Can you prove that they even were bullets. They looked like pointy triangles to me.

and "same tier" remains undefined. In what? Combat? Saber skills? Good looks? Tough to say, isn't it?

It is refering to all-round capability.

Um... blocked the chosen one? You still need to prove Anakin "wasn't all that great in the force anyway." cause I think that is one of the more stupid things you have ever said.

Again, no I don't. you need to prove he was good with teh Force. And then factor in his lack of focus and insanity at the time.

Never has it turned them red. Therefore the ability in the game, as shown in the game, is noncanon

Gameplay mechanics. 😬

Advent already proved me right on this one anyway. 😛

enemies, yes. Weapons and medpacks? no.

Point.

Its not WHIRLWIND for the last freaking time. Its tk. And the fact that an opponent can be so badly beaten in TK doesn't speak much of their abilities.

Variations of TK are canon. Force Whilwind was used in a cutscene. Its canon. This is just further proof of Bastilas mastery of TK.

So your contention is that Revan (and by extension every companion in KOTOR and KOTOR 2) KNOWS every ability that it is POSSIBLE they could have learned in the game?

Already covered. Revan can potentially learn every technique, but it isn't canon that he does. Bastila does learn all those techniques, 100% unalterable and unchangeble and she does possess strength enough to mind-**** Hutt-boy.

Also i think her mental abilities increase as a Sith too, so she even more powerful than she was when she did said mind****ery.

Replied! 😛

gooooood everything is proceeding as I had forseen. (though your cowardly side-kick, DE has vanished, leaving his posts undefended, and therefore debunked)

**** you tj seriously. Stop insulting me last year.

edit: Also I don't care what you say Advent thoroughly spanked you guys in this thread.

yeah, i was a bit of dick in some of these. i felt bad about that. I think it was a rougher time. Probably why Janus responds that way, he never learned to become friends with all the members, cause we only had like 3 at a time.

I will never forgive the way you insulted me a year ago. **** you 4 evar!

I forgot to make a birthday thread for her this year. D'ow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I don't care what you say Advent thoroughly spanked you guys in this thread.

wut r u talkin bout???

You guys bragging about how you all 'scared her away' in the Essay thread. You ganged up on her and she beat your asses anyway. You're just a bunch of bullies!

Leave it to Neph to stand up for the underdog.