Originally posted by Darth Martin
😆Why do you insist on making McClane a high-level street? He's not on Batman's level, forget Preston.
Yeah, McClane is a joke 🙄 He's only got 4 damn movies of kicking the shit outta terrorists.
Challenge time: Name me one time, one single scene in "Equilibrium", where Preston defeated someone of McClane's caliber while they were behind cover, blasting away UNPREDICTABLY with a machine gun.
There is none. Thanks for playing 😄
Originally posted by Robtard
Weren't you the one arguing that it took Preston two aims/shots to kill the Police Caption, because he was on the move? Yea, you did.If McClane is 'under cover and blasting away unpredictably', his position would be known and therefore calculable under Gunkata; if Preston can avoid 20+ machine-guns, he certainly can avoid one.
Ding, your turkey's done.
Yeah, I did. Read the OP. Read when the fight starts. Mac has attained cover, Preston must hunt him down and kill him.
Preston avoided 20+ machine guns because he knew where/when/how they would attack. Wait, I already said that. AND they were standing in one spot like idiots, just begging to be shot.
Tell me, how's Preston gonna shoot THROUGH whatever McClane has taken cover behind? Hmm?
Here's what happens in a real life gun battle, here's what happens in the gunfights in Die Hard:
People go for cover. Preston has never, not once, fought someone under these conditions. All of the people Preston fights, every stinking one, stand there like statues begging to be shot.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm, and in the time it takes Preston to adjust his aim, McClane'll end him.Yeah, I did. Read the OP. Read when the fight starts. Mac has attained cover, Preston must hunt him down and kill him.
Preston avoided 20+ machine guns because he knew where/when/how they would attack. Wait, I already said that. AND they were standing in one spot like idiots, just begging to be shot.
Tell me, how's Preston gonna shoot THROUGH whatever McClane has taken cover behind? Hmm?
Here's what happens in a real life gun battle, here's what happens in the gunfights in Die Hard:
People go for cover. Preston has never, not once, fought someone under these conditions. All of the people Preston fights, every stinking one, stand there like statues begging to be shot.
Sounds like a catered scenario. But if McClane's already secured himself and is making a stand, waiting for Preston to find him, then he's not going to be moving about, like you implied before.
Depends, what has McClane taken cover behind I assume a desk or a file cabinet, considering it's an office building. Preston's twin autos can shoot straight through people, an office desk or file cabinet should prove no problem.
Except in the hallway scene when some of the machine-gun toting guards where using the pillars as temp cover and Preston managed to **** their shit up just fine.
So what we have per you scenario: McClane is hiding behind some piece of office furniture and waiting for Preston to find him. Not sure how that counters Preston's ability to avoid gun-fire while simultaneously returning fire in an ultra-deadly fashion.
Originally posted by Robtard
Sounds like a catered scenario. But if McClane's already secured himself and is making a stand, waiting for Preston to find him, then he's not going to be moving about, like you implied before.Depends, what has McClane taken cover behind I assume a desk or a file cabinet, considering it's an office building. Preston's twin autos can shoot straight through people, an office desk or file cabinet should prove no problem.
Except in the hallway scene when some of the machine-gun toting guards where using the pillars as temp cover and Preston managed to **** their shit up just fine.
So what we have per you scenario: McClane is hiding behind some piece of office furniture and waiting for Preston to find him. Not sure how that counters Preston's ability to avoid gun-fire while simultaneously returning fire in an ultra-deadly fashion.
Hans and Karl tried in vain to shoot McClane with 9mm fire, ping ping ping the rounds bounced off the desk. Preston uses 9mm ammo. Ping ping ping his bullets will bounce off too. ✅ Try again.
No, the cops in the hallway made no attempt to take cover. Look again:
They either stood stock still, or they came running at him. This is fact and is non debatable, it's right there in the vid.
Now, ask yourself this question: In the above vid, what would have happened if all the cops had taken cover behind something Preston couldn't shoot through instead of walking right into his bullets? Hmm?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hans and Karl tried in vain to shoot McClane with 9mm fire, ping ping ping the rounds bounced off the desk. Preston uses 9mm ammo. Ping ping ping his bullets will bounce off too. ✅ Try again.No, the cops in the hallway made no attempt to take cover. Look again:
They either stood stock still, or they came running at him. This is fact and is non debatable, it's right there in the vid.
Now, ask yourself this question: In the above vid, what would have happened if all the cops had taken cover behind something Preston couldn't shoot through instead of walking right into his bullets? Hmm?
This is were we use your "in their world" debate-angle back at you. In the Diehard universe, 9mm bullets can't go through simple desk and file cabinets, Preston's bullets are from his universe though; they go right through people like butter and into marble walls; an office desk or file cabinet will pose no problem. On in laymen terms, "no ping, ping, ping", just "ahhhh, I'm dead".
At 1:03 and 1:13, you see cops come out of cover. So okay.
He would have kept advancing, while avoiding the gunfire (as he's shown) until he had a visual and would have shot them.
Originally posted by Robtard
This is were we use your "in their world" debate-angle back at you. In the Diehard universe, 9mm bullets can't go through simple desk and file cabinets, Preston's bullets are from his universe though; they go right through people like butter and into marble walls; an office desk or file cabinet will pose no problem. On in laymen terms, "no ping, ping, ping", just "ahhhh", dead.
Then apparently the metal in Nakatomi is like uber and stuff 😄
Metal is stronger than flesh and bone, dude. And as far as the bullets going into marble walls, hell, even a pissant .22 will hit a marble wall and imbed itself.
Try again.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then apparently the metal in Nakatomi is like uber and stuff 😄Metal is stronger than flesh and bone, dude. And as far as the bullets going into marble walls, hell, even a pissant .22 will hit a marble wall and imbed itself.
Try again.
No, dude. Fail. Accept your debate-angle thrown back in your face. Office furniture isn't stopping Preston's guns.
Some metal. A body will resist a bullet better than sheet-metal, as an example. But a .22 will not go through a body and into the marble behind it.
Don't need to try again. You catered a scenario where you thought you could kill Preston; it's blown-up in your face.
Originally posted by RobtardAt 1:03 and 1:13, you see cops come out of cover. So okay.
He would have kept advancing, while avoiding the gunfire (as he's shown) until he had a visual and would have shot them.
Aaaaahahahahaaa you're making it too easy!!! Those cops were noobs, they came running from behind cover, right out into the open, easy pickin's. They were begging to be shot.
Try harder.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Aaaaahahahahaaa you're making it too easy!!! Those cops were noobs, they came running from behind cover, right out into the open, easy pickin's. They were begging to be shot.Try harder.
And how does that help McClane when you've stuck him behind some bits of office furniture that Preston can not only shoot through, but simultaneously dance out of McClane's fire while doing so?
See, you've failed. Maybe try a new scenario and plan out Preston's death better. I also don't appreciate you killing McClane due to idiocy. McClane doesn't hide and wait, kid.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, dude. Fail. Accept your debate-angle thrown back in your face. Office furniture isn't stopping Preston's guns.Some metal. A body will resist a bullet better than sheet-metal, as an example. But a .22 will not go through a body and into the marble behind it.
Don't need to try again. You catered a scenario where you thought you could kill Preston; it's blown-up in your face.
The desk McClane his behind was not just a "layer of sheet metal", dude. It was multiple layers of metal. The top of a typical metal office desk is easily more than a single layer of flimsy sheet metal. If it were, then why didn't Karl and Hans's 9mm fire penetrate it?
Here, educate yourself:
The MP-5:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5
Muzzle velocity 400 m/s (1,312 ft/s)
And the Beretta 92F, which is basically the same as an M-9:
http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Beretta_M9
Muzzle velocity
1160 feet per second
Mhm, that's a burn.
Originally posted by Robtard
And how does that help McClane when you've stuck him behind some bits of office furniture that Preston can not only shoot through, but simultaneously dance out of McClane's fire while doing so?See, you've failed. Maybe try a new scenario and plan out Preston's death better. I also don't appreciate you killing McClane due to idiocy. McClane doesn't hide and wait, kid.
Random and unpredictable shooting patterns>>>Gun Kata. Fact.
No, Preston's guns cannot shoot through a metal office desk, stop reaching. The typical 9 mm round has been known to bounce off a windshield.
I have no doubt that Preston will dance around a few bullets, but with McClane spraying the entire area, he's done.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The desk McClane his behind was not just a "layer of sheet metal", dude. It was multiple layers of metal. The top of a typical metal office desk is easily more than a single layer of flimsy sheet metal. If it were, then why didn't Karl and Hans's 9mm fire penetrate it?Here, educate yourself:
The MP-5:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5
Muzzle velocity 400 m/s (1,312 ft/s)
And the Beretta 92F, which is basically the same as an M-9:
http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Beretta_M9
Muzzle velocity
1160 feet per second
Mhm, that's a burn.
There was a metal desk? Odd. Also, how thick do you expect a metal office desk to be, seriously.
Conclusion and per your own rules, bullets in McClane's "world" can't go through a simple desk. Preston's bullets aren't held back by the same rules.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Random and unpredictable shooting patterns>>>Gun Kata. Fact.No, Preston's guns cannot shoot through a metal office desk, stop reaching. The typical 9 mm round has been known to bounce off a windshield.
I have no doubt that Preston will dance around a few bullets, but with McClane spraying the entire area, he's done.
What's so random about McClane being behind a desk? Nothing.
Preston's guns shoot through a body and into the wall behind them(this is shown; it's a feat), an office desk won't be a problem for those guns.
20+ guys sprayed, Preston had no problem. Last time I checked, 20+ guys is greater than 1.
Originally posted by RobtardLet's get down to brass tacks here:
There was a metal desk? Odd. Also, how thick do you expect a metal office desk to be, seriously.Conclusion and per your own rules, bullets in McClane's "world" can't go through a simple desk. Preston's bullets aren't held back by the same rules.
The MP-5 uses 9mm ammo.
McClane's Beretta 92F uses 9mm ammo.
Preston's pistols are Beretta 92F's.
Now, in all the shootout scenes in Die Hard, the 9mm round goes right through a thick ass wood table, but they fail to penetrate a metal desk. That's what we have to go with.
The human body is around 12 inches thick, depending on the person obviously. Let's perform a little experiment, shall we?
Martin Riggs is at the firing range with his Beretta 92F. He has three targets in front of him. The first target is a person. The second target is a slab of metal 12 inches thick. The third is a slab of wood 12 inches thick. He fires into each target one time, three shots total. Which of the three targets will be penetrated the deepest/easiest?
Originally posted by RobtardNo, it won't, se what I just said.
What's so random about McClane being behind a desk? Nothing.Preston's guns shoot through a body and into the wall behind them(this is shown; it's a feat), an office desk won't be a problem for those guns.
20+ guys sprayed, Preston had no problem. Last time I checked, 20+ guys is greater than 1.Mhm, 20 guys standing around like idiots just begging to be shot. 20 guys running right at Preston as he fired.