Originally posted by Omega Vision
That's no sign of genius in any way. If I had to describe his character with one word it would be "determined". He fails at everything else but training and fighting: he's socially awkward, somewhat slow mentally, and he has no skills with Ninjutsu whatsoever. He's just a stubborn guy who never gives up and pushes his body to new limits to meet his challenges Rocky Balboa style.
He's a genius of hard work.
....never mind that Sasuke reached his speed level in like a week....
Rock Lee wishes he was Kenichi, where hard work really does pay off..
Hmm...
Unless some more evidence is presented for Lee that hasn't been thus far, given what I know of Val from my tourney research, I'd have to say he'd beat Lee for a healthy majority, if not a clean sweep. The fact that every opponent Val fights isn't a martial artist themselves has no bearing on his personal skill level (and is an obvious strawman so I won't address it), and Val's dealt with opposition that brought more to the table than Lee appears able to with ease (this is based on the assumption that what's been shown of Lee is all there is to see).
Originally posted by Etna
I'm not "downing" the character. I love Rock Lee, and I think I like him even more then you since you can't accept the truth that Rock Lee is not very strong in his whole universe. More then Half the characters in that series is stronger then him because he has such a handicap.
A Handicap you don't seem to understand how bad it is.
Handicap being that Rock Lee can't use ninjutsu and genjutsu at all. Thats a pretty bad handicap, the worse handicap possible in the whole series.
If you can't accept that he is a low tier Naruto character because of his weakness and his lack of feats. Then you don't know Rock lee
Though KK would beat him every time, you clearly way under selling Lee.
Originally posted by amnesia
Ninjas where nothing compared to samurais. History seems to forget this.
Well...
Sasuke was a speedblitzer in the Land of Waves arc, as you saw against the Zabuza clones. That takes many times the speed of an ordinary human.
Then, shortly after, he was completely outspeeded by Lee (who was wearing weights on his ankles so heavy that they shaked the ground upon impact when he took them off). Lee was seemingly about twice as fast as Sasuke.
Lee took off the weights in his battle against Gaara, becoming much faster than before. Now, he was able to move so fast that even the ground beneath him reacted to his movements.
Then, the gates came into the picture... Rock Lee speedblitzed Gaara completely. It appeared like there were many Rock Lees, due to his extreme speed.
Now, 3 years have passed, and as always, Lee has trained hard, and is possibly able to open more gates than before... Lee is many times faster than the eye can comprehend.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So was Mon El and a lot of Val's opponents. Do you have any scans to back up these feats also?
I would be glad to back them up, but sadly, MangaFox.com and OneManga.com (the sites I usually read Naruto with) doesn't let you read Naruto anymore because of some stupid licensing... If anyone can find me a place on the net where I can read all of the Naruto manga, I will be glad to find the scans and back up the feats (I will look for such a place myself too, of course).
However, the difference between Lee and Mon El is, that Mon El didn't have any fighting skills. Lee got better control than Mon El and can use his speed way better. Unless it's stated somewhere that Karate Kid got superspeed, he will be caught off-guard by Lee's superspeed martial arts.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So was Mon El and a lot of Val's opponents. Do you have any scans to back up these feats also?
This is a fact and anyone who read the manga would knows this.......it not some hidden ability, thats pretty much lee in a nut shell, a wicked fast skilled and strong h2h fighter.
Originally posted by YoBro
I would be glad to back them up, but sadly, MangaFox.com and OneManga.com (the sites I usually read Naruto with) doesn't let you read Naruto anymore because of some stupid licensing... If anyone can find me a place on the net where I can read all of the Naruto manga, I will be glad to find the scans and back up the feats (I will look for such a place myself too, of course).However, the difference between Lee and Mon El is, that Mon El didn't have any fighting skills. Lee got better control than Mon El and can use his speed way better. Unless it's stated somewhere that Karate Kid got superspeed, he will be caught off-guard by Lee's superspeed martial arts.
This is just false on so many levels. The difference in Lee and El's speed is substantial. El's speed is faster than anything Lee could comprehend and it seems as if you are saying that El's speed means nothing because he doesn't have the fighting skills to back it up. If your opponent is significantly faster than you are screwed regardless of how good you are at fighting. That's like saying Captain America or Iron Fist should be able to beat and react to Flash.
If Val can see the person coming then he should have no problem, he's a way better martial artist and he was able to see and react to El coming at him. Since he can react to his movements and heat vision then he can react to someone who is slower but a better fighter than El. Why do you believe that he can not react to someone who is significantly slower than El but a better fighter?
Honestly this is just a bad match up, Kenshiro would've been a much better candidate for Kid, but I didn't think anyone would vote for that but I digress.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Ok now this is going to far. You keep acting like you know him so well but that state utter garbage like "haft the characters in the series are stronger then him" or that he a "low tier". That is completely wrong. He can not uses ninjutsu or genjutsu, that however does not make him a low tier. Gai for one does not uses either and he just beat one of the most powerful bad guys in the manga. Rock Lee is extremely powerful ninja and is a genius at the gates, which is ability few other ninja have shown any ability of using. He is not low tier, in fact he beat pretty much any of the kids out side of naruto an sasuke.Though KK would beat him every time, you clearly way under selling Lee.
Yes half the characters are stronger then him. If you can't comprehend that, then you are forgetting the fact that he keeps losing his battles, (Except for that one match against an amateur sasuke). If you compare Lee to half the characters on Naruto, you can easily see that Lee wouldn't win, especially with the sad handicap of no genjutsu.
Rock Lee IS an extremely powerful ninja, but so far in the manga he lost most of his matches and everyone has done crazier stuff then him.
He may have a Jutsu few ninja have done, but you know why? Its cause its a forbidden technique.
But by beating pretty much any kid, you mean just Amateur Sasuke right?
Sadly we have yet to see exactly what Lee can really do since the three year gap. But until that time, the only thing we can say about Rock Lee is that he went passed young gaara's absolute sand defense.
Which is impressive non the less, but not impressive enough when compared to what half characters can do. Especially with what has been going on Naruto Shippuden. He's low because he hasn't done a thing.
I'm not under selling Lee. People are overestimating him. And cause of that, we get fanboys like this
Originally posted by carver9I nod this but the weakest version of KK, naah, I think the most powerful should be used against Rock Lee.
Originally posted by Etna
Yes half the characters are stronger then him. If you can't comprehend that, then you are forgetting the fact that he keeps losing his battles, (Except for that one match against an amateur sasuke).f you compare Lee to half the characters on Naruto, you can easily see that Lee wouldn't win, especially with the sad handicap of no genjutsu.
Rock Lee IS an extremely powerful ninja, but so far in the manga he lost most of his matches and everyone has done crazier stuff then him.
He also beat naruto as well. But simply because he lost does not make him weaker then haft the characters thats utterly rediculous. Becuase the people he was fighting were extremely powerful Gara was possibly the most powerful kid at the time of Lee fight with him. Lee was able to give gara one hell of a fight, which almost non of the kids at the time would have been able to do. He also did far better against Kimimaro then Naruto. You forget to look at the time in which these fights take places and how they compare to everyone elses. based on thoses two fights, both of which prove that during that time span he was at the top tier of the kids clearly.
Originally posted by Etna
He may have a Jutsu few ninja have done, but you know why? Its cause its a forbidden technique.
Originally posted by Etna
If you compare Lee to half the characters on Naruto, you can easily see that Lee wouldn't win, especially with the sad handicap of no genjutsu.
Originally posted by Etna
But by beating pretty much any kid, you mean just Amateur Sasuke right?
No I mean any kid, he shown pretty clearly to be one of the most powerful kids prior to the time skip. Very few are above him. There really no reason he has no kept up and improve just like everyone elses espcially given the fact he trains harder then anyone elses. Even the movies suggests this (there are manga versions if not mistaken).
Originally posted by Etna
I'm not under selling Lee. People are overestimating him. And cause of that, we get fanboys like this
Originally posted by Etna
🙄 Alright whatever. I don't feel like going back and forth on that. 😛Does anyone know if KK have a weakness of some sort?
If not, then KK wins 10/10
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's not weaker than half the characters.But he's on a lower level than most of the characters anybody gives a crap about.
He's one dimensional.
Who cares if you're better than Karin or TenTen or Ino - they suck.
KK still wins.
I actually think when we see him fight he going to show to be one of the most powerful. Becuase if he advanced the same amount as everyone elses did after the time skip compared to what he was before it, he easily be top 5 most powerful kids.
Again one dimensional thing does not matter, Gai one dimensional but he beat the shit out of pretty much anyone in the village and is easily top five in the village.
lol I hate ten ten.
agreed.