This is a good thread, a lot of info thrown around though,
some right some wrong. Too much for Mr M to swim in.
I will add this though ...
The account involving Sise-Neg and Shuma is being misconstrued.
Sise-Neg was never afraid of Shuma.
Shuma had absolutely no chance against Sise-Neg.
Shuma was never going to absorb "much" of Sise-Neg's energy either.
In fact, Sise-Neg wasn't even interested in battling Shuma,
he only entered that Universe (Pre-Historic era of 616)
to see who's mystical energies registered so high.
Sise-Neg also entered the Camelot housing Universe to notice Merlyn.
He also entered Ancient Egypt (due to the many "gods" they worshiped there)
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It was Dr Strange that begged Sise-Neg to destroy Shuma
since Shuma had conquered that Pre-Historic Planet Earth.
Sise-Neg refused, cause he felt it would take time,
and Shuma may absorb some of his energy while doing it.
Therefore Sise-Neg decided to absorb most of Shuma's power, which k.o.'s Shuma,
and bfr & trap Shuma to/in another Reality for millennia.
(Sise-Neg also re-created this reality free of Shuma right there on the spot)
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is a good thread, a lot of info thrown around though,
some right some wrong. Too much for Mr M to swim in.I will add this though ...
The account involving Sise-Neg and Shuma is being misconstrued.
Sise-Neg was never afraid of Shuma.
Shuma had absolutely no chance against Sise-Neg.
Shuma was never going to absorb "much" of Sise-Neg's energy either.
In fact, Sise-Neg wasn't even interested in battling Shuma,
he only entered that Universe (Pre-Historic era of 616)
to see who's mystical energies registered so high.Sise-Neg also entered the Camelot housing Universe to notice Merlyn.
He also entered Ancient Egypt (due to the many "gods" they worshiped there)
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It was Dr Strange that begged Sise-Neg to destroy Shuma
since Shuma had conquered that Pre-Historic Planet Earth.Sise-Neg refused, cause he felt it would take time,
of his energy while doing it.
and Shuma may absorb [b]someTherefore Sise-Neg decided to absorb most of Shuma's power, which k.o.'s Shuma,
and bfr & trap Shuma to/in another Reality for millennia.(Sise-Neg also re-created this reality free of Shuma right there on the spot)
Sise-Neg was later only stopping in time periods where there was a high concentration of mystical energy to care about, and in each stop in time he only stopped to gather mystic energy that was greater in scope than the mystical energy he absorbed prior. So the fact that a being who already had so much energy within himself considered Shuma's energy impressive enough to gather says to me that Shuma's magical energy was enormous. Though Shuma defeating Sise-Neg was most likely not a possible outcome.
However, for a guy who was already so immensely powerful to say that dealing with Shuma directly would take time and energy, when beforehand he could have erased Strange with a mere thought and had been able to absorb all the energy from whole realities with minimal to no effort, that says to me that Shuma's power was still rather significant - maybe not in comparison to Sise-Neg, but at least more significant than the other demons named in this thread, considering Sise-Neg didn't even care about their energies, and they had each existed on Earth at one point or another.
Originally posted by CortSether
Shuma's power was still rather significant - maybe not in comparison to Sise-Neg, but at least more significant than the other demons named in this thread, considering Sise-Neg didn't even care about their energies, and they had each existed on Earth at one point or another.
B) Zom was imprisoned by Eternity in a dimension beyond all space and time, he wouldn't even be in Earth's dimension which is where Sise Neg was (Camelot, Sodom and Gomorrah, Cenozoic Era Earth).\
So yeah.........
Originally posted by zopzop
🙄
A) The Elder Gods weren't introduced as such (1982) till AFTER this event took place (1974), so you have no point there.B) Zom was imprisoned by Eternity in a dimension beyond all space and time, he wouldn't even be in Earth's dimension which is where Sise Neg was (Camelot, Sodom and Gomorrah, Cenozoic Era Earth).\
So yeah.........
A) Doesn't matter if they were introduced as such after the Sise-Neg arc. Set was already recognized as an evil god in 1971. Even still, it doesn't change the fact that what happened in the Sise-Neg arc is still 100% canon, and that Shuma is the only demon that Sise-Neg noticed as significant enough to absorb power from.
B) Sise-Neg is from the 31st Century, far in the future after Zom attacked Strange and the Ancient One on Earth. If Zom's energy was of high enough significance, Sise-Neg could have warped instantly to when Zom was on Earth after sensing his magic while going through time and consumed his magic, but nope, he didn't care.
Originally posted by CortSether
A) Doesn't matter if they were introduced as such after the Sise-Neg arc. Set was already recognized as an evil god in 1971. Even still, it doesn't change the fact that what happened in the Sise-Neg arc is still 100% canon, and that Shuma is the only demon that Sise-Neg noticed as significant enough to absorb power from.B) Sise-Neg is from the 31st Century, far in the future after Zom attacked Strange and the Ancient One on Earth. If Zom's energy was of high enough significance, Sise-Neg could have warped instantly to when Zom was on Earth after sensing his magic while going through time and consumed his magic, but nope, he didn't care.
A) There was a HUGE difference in power between Conan Era Set (who wasn't even introduced into the mainline Marvel universe at the time) and Elder God Set. Don't act stupid.
B) Did the writer of that arc even remember Zom to place him in that story? Umar with the Flames of Regency was also on Earth at the time, yet the writer didn't include her. The Living Tribunal was also on Earth during that time. What about the power of the awakened black magicians caused by the severing of Zom's forelock that was a threat to all reality (that forced the LT to intervene)? What about Nebulos and his staff (that was powerful enough to challenge the LT himself)?
You're so full of phail.............
Originally posted by CortSetherSise-Neg was later only stopping in time periods where there
was a high concentration of mystical energy to care about,and in each stop in time he only stopped to gather mystic energy that was greater in scope than the mystical energy he absorbed prior.
So the fact that a being who already had so much energy within himself considered Shuma's energy impressive enough to gather says to me that Shuma's magical energy was enormous. Though Shuma defeating Sise-Neg was most likely not a possible outcome.
Sise-Neg was going to absorb their energy as effortlessly as he did
regardless whether he entered those Universes or not.
He was only interested in who's energy it was. So went into those realities out of curiosity.
Also, no where in that arc is it stated: (that I recall)
... that the mystical energy in Camelot, Ancient Egypt and/or Pre-Historic Earth
was greater in scope than the energies he'd absorbed prior.
Let me see where you found that cause it slipped my meticulous eyes.
Originally posted by CortSetherHowever, for a guy who was already so immensely powerful to
say that dealing with Shuma directly would take time and energy,
when beforehand he could have erased Strange with a mere
thought and had been able to absorb all the energy from whole
realities with minimal to no effort, that says to me that Shuma's
power was still rather significant - maybe not in comparison to Sise-
Neg, but at least more significant than the other demons named in
this thread, considering Sise-Neg didn't even care about their
energies, and they had each existed on Earth at one point or
another.
I also agree,
that it is impressive that although Shuma would've been obliterated
Sise-Neg felt it would've taken some time at the cost of some energy to destroy him.
*note *
Let's not forget though, Sise-Neg could've said that about anyone if you think about it.
He never tried to hurt anyone else, he only stole their mystical energies.
What if he had considered destroying someone else,
would have he said the same thing? hm
Originally posted by CortSetherShuma is the only demon that Sise-Neg noticed as significant enough to absorb power from.
B) Sise-Neg is from the 31st Century, far in the future after Zom
attacked Strange and the Ancient One on Earth. If Zom's energy was
of high enough significance, Sise-Neg could have warped instantly to
when Zom was on Earth after sensing his magic while going through
time and consumed his magic, but nope, he didn't care.
There was no one left behind.
Sise-Neg wasn't particular with Merlyn, Shuma or the "gods" of ancient Egypt.
Again, he was only curious as to who's energy it was.
He was flowing down all Time absorbing all energy as he continued to go,
he made 3 pit stops along the way out of curiosity.
That's it.
Let's get the story right friends.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually,
he didn't stop to gather Shuma's energy or Merlyn's in Camelot
or the "gods" of ancient Egypt.Sise-Neg was going to absorb their energy as effortlessly as he did
regardless whether he entered those Universes or not.He was only interested in who's energy it was. So went into those realities out of curiosity.
Also, no where in that arc is it stated: (that I recall)
... that the mystical energy in Camelot, Ancient Egypt and/or Pre-Historic Earth
was greater in scope than the energies he'd absorbed prior.Let me see where you found that cause it slipped my meticulous eyes.
When they first stop in Camelot, Sise-Neg explains why he had to stop there: "I was traveling undisturbed, into the past, absorbing mystical energy as I went -- until I encountered a mammoth concentration of the energy in this era! I must know why!"
Yes he was concerned why the energy was so high there, but if the energy he had absorbed previously was greater than the mystical energy in the era of ancient Camelot, why would he be concerned in the first place? If it was not significant to the power he absorbed before that point, there doesn't seem to be much sense in taking time to scout the area, and Sise-Neg really stresses that the energy there is "mammoth". Says to me that Merlin's energy was the most impressive he had encountered at that point.
At the next point in time, he says that the energy in Sodom and Gomorrah is even greater than the energy he took from Merlin.
"There shall be another cessation of travel! A new concentration of magic -- a much larger one than Merlin's lurks below!"
Then upon meeting Shuma-Gorath he does say that he is the final possessor of mystical energy that he MUST have. Sise-Neg was near totality at that point before absorbing from Shuma, I don't think he'd care to scope out who had all that magic power if it was more pitiful than the energy he'd already absorbed, since he can extract energy from places without even having to go there - as he demonstrated when he made Mordo and Strange weaker in Marvel Premiere #13 "Time Doom".
Originally posted by Mr Master
*note *Let's not forget though, Sise-Neg could've said that about anyone if you think about it.
He never tried to hurt anyone else, he only stole their mystical energies.
What if he had considered destroying someone else,
would have he said the same thing? hm
Sise-Neg was pretty much an arrogant jerkwad who'd kill if he wanted. He created a dragon to fight the knight Lancelot du Lac in Camelot because he heard stories of battles between knights and dragons in his time period, and Strange had to rescue Lancelot du Lac b/c Sise-Neg didn't care if the guy died in his little game.
Then there's also Sise-Neg destroying Sodom and Gomorrah because they attacked him, and even before that he told the citizens that if they don't take him to their leader they will face certain death.
Originally posted by CortSether
Then upon meeting Shuma-Gorath he does say that he is the final possessor of mystical energy that he MUST have.
You can get the scan from the respect thread on KMC. 😉
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, please post that scan of him going after Gorath. I want you to do it so the forum can see what the "mighty" Shuma Gorath was doing on Cenozoic Era Earth. 😆You can get the scan from the respect thread on KMC. 😉
Your post has nothing to do with anything, just so you know.
Originally posted by CortSetherWhen they first stop in Camelot, Sise-Neg explains why he had to stop there: "I was traveling undisturbed, into the past, absorbing mystical energy as I went -- until I encountered a mammoth concentration of the energy in this era! I must know why!"
Yes he was concerned why the energy was so high there, but if the energy he had absorbed previously was greater than the mystical energy in the era of ancient Camelot, why would he be concerned in the first place? If it was not significant to the power he absorbed before that point, there doesn't seem to be much sense in taking time to scout the area, and Sise-Neg really stresses that the energy there is "mammoth". Says to me that Merlin's energy was the most impressive he had encountered at that point.
At the next point in time, he says that the energy in Sodom and Gomorrah is even greater than the energy he took from Merlin.
"There shall be another cessation of travel! A new concentration of magic -- [B]a much larger one than Merlin's lurks below!"
Then upon meeting Shuma-Gorath he does say that he is the final possessor of mystical energy that he MUST have. Sise-Neg was near totality at that point before absorbing from Shuma, I don't think he'd care to scope out who had all that magic power if it was more pitiful than the energy he'd already absorbed, since he can extract energy from places without even having to go there - as he demonstrated when he made Mordo and Strange weaker in Marvel Premiere #13 "Time Doom". [/B]
Now, there was more mystical energy in those Universes in comparison with other universes,
obviously, I mentioned that before myself.
But it was never even hinted that he meant as a whole.
Meaning ...
(either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma) > than all the energy he absorbed before.
❌
Now (either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma)
had more mystical energy than any other universe individually?
✅
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Btw. Shuma was last because Shuma was located in a lower Universe. (Pre-Historic Earth)
While Camelot (5th-6th Century) and Ancient Egypt (300 BC)
Remember, Sise-Neg was traveling from the Future, downward/backward to the Past.
Originally posted by CortSetherSise-Neg was pretty much an arrogant jerkwad who'd kill if he wanted. He created a dragon to fight the knight Lancelot du Lac in Camelot because he heard stories of battles between knights and dragons in his time period, and Strange had to rescue Lancelot du Lac b/c Sise-Neg didn't care if the guy died in his little game.
Then there's also Sise-Neg destroying Sodom and Gomorrah because they attacked him, and even before that he told the citizens that if they don't take him to their leader they will face certain death.
Although,
he knocked a knight off a horse, to off-set that balance against that dragon.
He wiped out that part of Egypt in self defense.
So yea, pretty much like I said, he really wasn't trying to battle anyone.
