Marvel's Most Powerful Demon? Zom vs Shuma Gorath vs Chthon vs Set

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, I know the story well,
and these over-sized scans in no way suggest that the mystical energies in either Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or the Pre-Historic Earth where Shuma was at, were greater in scope than the mystical energy he absorbed before..

Now, there was more mystical energy in those Universes in comparison with other universes, obviously, I mentioned that before myself.

But it was never even hinted that he meant as a whole.

Meaning ...

(either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma) > than all the energy he absorbed before.

❌

Now (either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma)
had more mystical energy than any other universe individually?

✅

My objective wasn't to say that each individual universe had more energy there than the grand total of everything Sise-Neg had absorbed before that point. Rather, that each time Sise-Neg felt necessary to halt his journey and scope out a universe, the energy in that universe was greater than the energy in the universe he stopped in immediately prior. As in for Sise-Neg to consider it worthwhile to make a stop, the universe had to have had more mystic energy than the universe he stopped in just previously, so Shuma > Sodom & Gomorah > Merlin. That's what I meant.

When you wrote:
Also, no where in that arc is it stated: (that I recall)... that the mystical energy in Camelot, Ancient Egypt and/or Pre-Historic Earth
was greater in scope than the energies he'd absorbed prior.

I thought you were saying that there was no evidence that each stop on Earth held more energy than the stop before it. My bad.

But...

What I'm trying to get at, though I might not have done so quite well, is that if Sise-Neg stopped to get the energy from Shuma-Gorath specifically, that means Shuma's energy registered high enough for him to care about obtaining it. Shuma may have been last because of the timeline he was located in, but when Set and Chthon ruled the earth, it was also in a time before Camelot or Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yet Sise-Neg never cared enough to stop in a timeline when one of the other demons/gods of this thread ruled - he just absorbed from afar as he was traveling without even bothering with them.

To me, Sise-Neg's intrigue of Shuma's power in particular says it was more impressive than the power from the other demons listed here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He wiped out that part of Egypt in self defense.

Yeah, but he instigated it with the "take me to your leaders, mortals, or else face instant death!" part.

But yeah, he wasn't interested in battling anyone, he was just jerky. I mean Mordo offers to help the guy and helped him take down Strange when S-N was disguised as Cagliostro still, and yet Sise-Neg zaps him with force bolts. What's up with that? 😠

Originally posted by CortSether
My objective wasn't to say that each individual universe had more energy there than the grand total of everything Sise-Neg had absorbed before that point. Rather, that each time Sise-Neg felt necessary to halt his journey and scope out a universe, the energy in that universe was greater than the energy in the universe he stopped in immediately prior. As in for Sise-Neg to consider it worthwhile to make a stop, the universe had to have had more mystic energy than the universe he stopped in just previously, so Shuma > Sodom & Gomorah > Merlin. That's what I meant.

When you wrote:
Also, no where in that arc is it stated: (that I recall)... that the mystical energy in Camelot, Ancient Egypt and/or Pre-Historic Earth
was greater in scope than the energies he'd absorbed prior.

I thought you were saying that there was no evidence that each stop on Earth held more energy than the stop before it. My bad.

But...

What I'm trying to get at, though I might not have done so quite well, is that if Sise-Neg stopped to get the energy from Shuma-Gorath specifically, that means Shuma's energy registered high enough for him to care about obtaining it. Shuma may have been last because of the timeline he was located in, but when Set and Chthon ruled the earth, it was also in a time before Camelot or Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yet Sise-Neg never cared enough to stop in a timeline when one of the other demons/gods of this thread ruled - he just absorbed from afar as he was traveling without even bothering with them.

To me, Sise-Neg's intrigue of Shuma's power in particular says it was more impressive than the power from the other demons listed here.

Yeah, but he instigated it with the "take me to your leaders, mortals, or else face instant death!" part.

But yeah, he wasn't interested in battling anyone, he was just jerky. I mean Mordo offers to help the guy and helped him take down Strange when S-N was disguised as Cagliostro still, and yet Sise-Neg zaps him with force bolts. What's up with that?

I agree with everything except one thing.

Although you did address it well.

Concerning Shuma's location in comparison with Camelot and ancient Egypt.

Imo,
Shuma definitely came afterwards because he was further down the corridor of Time.

In fact, shortly after that they ended up in the pre-big bang void.

But yes, I agree, that in this story without doubt
Englehart (writer) has Shuma as the demon with most mystical energy.

Shuma

Originally posted by zopzop
A) There was a HUGE difference in power between Conan Era Set (who wasn't even introduced into the mainline Marvel universe at the time) and Elder God Set. Don't act stupid.

Set was introduced even before 1971, though and it was in the mainstream MU. His Serpent Crown took over the Sub-Mariner in an issue in 1969. Not much was said about Set's origins but it was already clear that Set was an evil deity that had influence of Earth at some point. Set's powers have never been retconned, his origins have just been expanded on.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
Set was introduced even before 1971, though and it was in the mainstream MU. His Serpent Crown took over the Sub-Mariner in an issue in 1969. Not much was said about Set's origins but it was already clear that Set was an evil deity that had influence of Earth at some point. Set's powers have never been retconned, his origins have just been expanded on.

I know there was another incident that was never in any comic but introduced by a retcon flashback in the backstories in the Atlantis Attacks! Crossover (the incident where his minions pwned Professor Iman and Arcana).

I'm going with Chthon. Ch couldn't manifest fully in 616 but even his partial influence cause tremendous problems.

him or original powerlevel zom

Shuma-Gorath is more powerful than Chthon,SG presences would cause the universe to collapse, when Dr Strange defeated SG, if drStrage would have enter the universe would have collapse, as where Chthon would Dave caused a imbalance !

Originally posted by the Darkone
Shuma-Gorath is more powerful than Chthon,SG presences would cause the universe to collapse, when Dr Strange defeated SG, if drStrage would have enter the universe would have collapse, as where Chthon would Dave caused a imbalance !

The universe wouldn't have collapsed. Strange would have busted a number of galaxies just by being there, though, which is still more than could be said for the other gods in this thread.

Originally posted by CortSether
The universe wouldn't have collapsed. Strange would have busted a number of galaxies just by being there, though, which is still more than could be said for the other gods in this thread.

Nothing happened during the Cenozoic Era when he was on Earth harassing ape men. Nothing happened in the 1940s (during the Invaders Now arc). Nothing happened when he was on Earth during modern times getting tripped up by the Salem Seven because of his "vertigo weakness". 😆

Yet Strange with Gorath's power would have busted galaxies by his mere presence in 616? 🙄

Lay off the crack.

Originally posted by zopzop
Holy sh|t with the exaggeration! What happened when Gorath HIMSELF manifested in 616 reality AND ON EARTH? NOTHING!

Nothing happened during the Cenozoic Era when he was on Earth harassing ape men. Nothing happened in the 1940s (during the Invaders Now arc). Nothing happened when he was on Earth during modern times getting tripped up by the Salem Seven because of his "vertigo weakness". 😆

Yet Strange with Gorath's power would have busted galaxies by his mere presence in 616? 🙄

Lay off the crack.

Also shuma was weakened when the cancervers was destroyed.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Would have?
Strange did bust galaxies just by being there. It wasnt a prediction, its something that happened

Also shuma was weakened when the cancervers was destroyed

Zom should be able to win this battle.

if it's not Cytorrak, i'll go with Shuma...

Originally posted by zopzop
Holy sh|t with the exaggeration! What happened when Gorath HIMSELF manifested in 616 reality AND ON EARTH? NOTHING!

Nothing happened during the Cenozoic Era when he was on Earth harassing ape men. Nothing happened in the 1940s (during the Invaders Now arc). Nothing happened when he was on Earth during modern times getting tripped up by the Salem Seven because of his "vertigo weakness". 😆

Yet Strange with Gorath's power would have busted galaxies by his mere presence in 616? 🙄

Lay off the crack.

It's already been explained to you before - the difference is control. Shuma-Gorath habitually conquers dimensions, he doesn't go and destroy them and never had any interest in destroying Earth aside from that once instance in which he was severely weak and hungry after being summoned by Scratch. He had already demonstrated he could wreck Earth casually within a dimension 1,000 planes of existence away from it, and when he was fighting Strange the battle was felt throughout multiple netherrealms. Not only that, but Kaluu, a rival to the Ancient One and master of black magic who had studied Chthon's Darkhold, had already said that multiple galaxies would be destroyed should Strange return to his reality. When he tried to open the way to Earth the realm they were in exploded with energy. That's how Kaluu made the assessment. You need to learn the difference between what's hyperbole and what isn't.

Originally posted by CortSether
It's already been explained to you before - the difference is control. Shuma-Gorath habitually conquers dimensions, he doesn't go and destroy them and never had any interest in destroying Earth aside from that once instance in which he was severely weak and hungry after being summoned by Scratch. He had already demonstrated he could wreck Earth casually within a dimension 1,000 planes of existence away from it, and when he was fighting Strange the battle was felt throughout multiple netherrealms.

The even more hilarious thing is, his (Gorath's) greatest on panel feat, the Earth voodoo doll, was also his greatest humiliation, as Strange hurled it at him, destroying both the image and Gorath. The even more hilarious thing is, Gorath's old form was wrecked (he was never the same after this fight) yet the Earth survived just fine!

And what of that battle that was felt in "multiple netherralms". Mephisto (who is supposedly a rat compared to Gorath) fought Galactus in his hell and 616 reality was being wrecked. Mephisto and Satannish fighting in a pocket dimension outside Mephisto's hell likewise caused dimension wrecking upheaval. So the "rats" not only have better fights than Gorath they also match and even exceeded his highest level feat (Mephisto retconning 616 reality >>>>>>>> Earth voodoo doll, by far).

Not only that, but Kaluu, a rival to the Ancient One and master of black magic who had studied Chthon's Darkhold, had already said that multiple galaxies would be destroyed should Strange return to his reality. When he tried to open the way to Earth the realm they were in exploded with energy. That's how Kaluu made the assessment. You need to learn the difference between what's hyperbole and what isn't.

And another thing, you put so much faith in worthless character statements/hyperbole, what do you make of the fact that Dr. Strange, who fought BOTH Satannish and Shuma Gorath, stated point blank, that NO ONE, NOT EVEN DORMAMMU AT THE HEIGHT OF HIS POWER EVER MADE ME FEEL SO HELPLESS? Yet according to Kaluu, Satannish and Mephisto were as "rats in a great temple" in those supposedly "higher dimensions" Gorath resided in? 🙄

This is a crazy thread. I'm still curious who wins. I think Zom probably because he got the attention of LT. Chthon is a heavy contender also. It's said that he can't leave his dimension because **** would get wrecked if he did because he's so powerful.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
This is a crazy thread. I'm still curious who wins. I think Zom probably because he got the attention of LT. Chthon is a heavy contender also. It's said that he can't leave his dimension because **** would get wrecked if he did because he's so powerful.

IMHO it's a toss up between him and Set.

Chthon and Zom need more showings to flesh out their true power level.

Originally posted by zopzop
Looking back, I was brutally unfair to Classic Gorath.

IMHO it's a toss up between him and Set.

Chthon and Zom need more showings to flesh out their true power level.

What made you change your mind about him?

Reason I think Zom is probably most powerful is because it was a combination of Eternity and Dormammu putting him down. And Chthon, wasn't his power what made Wanda's Chaos Wave so powerful?

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic

And Chthon, wasn't his power what made Wanda's Chaos Wave so powerful?

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
What made you change your mind about him?

Reason I think Zom is probably most powerful is because it was a combination of Eternity and Dormammu putting him down.

Exactly what role did Eternity play in it?

And Chthon, wasn't his power what made Wanda's Chaos Wave so powerful?