Originally posted by Stoic
I'm just having the hardest time believing that you guys believe that Terrax, and Firelord could beat Superman, after he was able to drag Darkseid into deep space, and molest him. What is going on here?
That was a high feat for Superman and a low feat for Darkseid. Over the last 15 years DS has been Superman's punching bag.
Originally posted by StoicWe mostly belive darkseid was jobbed to him in a pis ripe storyline and that you are ignoring their powersets and average level portrayals.
I'm just having the hardest time believing that you guys believe that Terrax, and Firelord could beat Superman, after he was able to drag Darkseid into deep space, and molest him. What is going on here?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Stop dodging the damn question, just answer it. Yes or no?
Here's the thing, I will not ignore Firelords high end feats, they just aren't as high as Supermans high end feats. Now I certainly can't ignore his low end feats either, because in retrospect many seemed like PIS, kinda like Firelords most embarrassing moment (I won't say his name).
So yes they both have poor showings, but in your opinion who has the best showings?
Originally posted by Stoic
Here's the thing, I will not ignore Firelords high end feats, they just aren't as high as Supermans high end feats. Now I certainly can't ignore his low end feats either, because in retrospect many seemed like PIS, kinda like Firelords most embarrassing moment (I won't say his name).So yes they both have poor showings, but in your opinion who has the best showings?
Superman, definately.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Good so you won't be bringing up SMvF anymore then, right? Because in this thread you didn't mention or recognize Supes's low moments of speed at all, you mentioned average/high end. So by the same token, you shouldn't go around trying to use SMvF as any kind of definitive evidence of Krill's capabilities when he's got 6 or 7 fights against Surfer and Thor that say otherwise...Superman, definately.
True enough, and I will stop with the Spidey vs Firelord thing even though it happened, but I must clarify the reason that it was brought to everyone's attention.
I was trying to show Firelords lack of durability, and his lack of a healing factor. The only guys that seem to be able to go up against Superman and have a decent chance of winning, are guys that have both in their power set, energy drain is also very effective. The thing here is that neither of these guys knows about Superman's weakness' in order to exploit them. If firelord did know then he would, and should be able to take him down, but even this is not a definite.
The question here is can Firelord soak up Superman's mojo, before Superman can go moon crusher on him?
forum rules unless stated otherwise general public knowledge is given... superman is a celebrity and does interviews,,, also in DCU space ppl have heard of superman due to him constantly saving his world and telling aliens tp spread the word superman's planet is off limits.
supes weakness are well documented and he himself has bn the one to state them in interviews.. b/c superman does not lie.
Originally posted by Stoic
True enough, and I will stop with the Spidey vs Firelord thing even though it happened, but I must clarify the reason that it was brought to everyone's attention.I was trying to show Firelords lack of durability, and his lack of a healing factor. The only guys that seem to be able to go up against Superman and have a decent chance of winning, are guys that have both in their power set, energy drain is also very effective. The thing here is that neither of these guys knows about Superman's weakness' in order to exploit them. If firelord did know then he would, and should be able to take him down, but even this is not a definite.
The question here is can Firelord soak up Superman's mojo, before Superman can go moon crusher on him?
And just a couple of more things. They would definately know about Supes's weakness's in the average forum fight because Supes's weakenesses are well known enough to constitute "basic knowledge". That doesn't matter in this thread though, because there's no weakness explotation allowed.
Originally posted by King Castle
forum rules unless stated otherwise general public knowledge is given... superman is a celebrity and does interviews,,, also in DCU space ppl have heard of superman due to him constantly saving his world and telling aliens tp spread the word superman's planet is off limits.supes weakness are well documented and he himself has bn the one to state them in interviews.. b/c superman does not lie.
Ok then so as I stated, who do you think would win? Do you think that Firelord would sap Supermans energies before he started his hyper fighting? Superman is much stronger than Firelord due to panel evidence, and even Marvel handbooks stats, which is all I can go on. This being said, it is my honest opinion that if Superman started wailing on Firelord that it would take a hell of a lot more than Firelord screaming ENOUGH!!! In fact, logic would dictate that the beating that a physical superior would do to him, wouldn't even allow for him to even utter as much.
The choice is yours, I see Superman dominating Firelord in very little time. Firelords battles with Thor and the Surfer are impressive, but neither of them are able to hyper fight. They had a give and take fight. Superman would just be giving and giving.
but this isnt just firelord this is firelord and terrax.
and firelord in the marvel U isnt that well known.. Marvel heroes and villians arent that popular or known to the world.
most think thor is not a god but a metahuman playing dress up.. b4 thor brought asgard to earth.
SS is pretty known to new yorkers and government officials b/c of the galactus incident and even some thought it was just a movie being filmed.
supes would not really know anything about terrax or firelord and a speed blitz which you are implying would never be supes 1st reaction or attack within cis.
supes like always would try to figure out how strong and durable they are b4 he decides to unleash city lvling punches.
but lets say he goes in hard and lands ten blows a likely reaction would be a high lvl stellar cosmic blast to sent him away or incinerate him.
Originally posted by King Castle
but this isnt just firelord this is firelord and terrax.and firelord in the marvel U isnt that well known.. Marvel heroes and villians arent that popular or known to the world.
most think thor is not a god but a metahuman playing dress up.. b4 thor brought asgard to earth.
SS is pretty known to new yorkers and government officials b/c of the galactus incident and even some thought it was just a movie being filmed.
supes would not really know anything about terrax or firelord and a speed blitz which you are implying would never be supes 1st reaction or attack within cis.
supes like always would try to figure out how strong and durable they are b4 he decides to unleash city lvling punches.
but lets say he goes in hard and lands ten blows a likely reaction would be a high lvl stellar cosmic blast to sent him away or incinerate him.
Incinerate Superman? Come on bro. Terrax was beaten by the New Warriors. This is not a low showing because of Speedballs power set, but this just wouldn't happen to Superman. Terrax IMO is a non factor, Galactus has never returned him to his full glory, and therfore he might as well be a turtle in a rabbit race. Superman has all of the strength, and durability to resist Firelords strength and cosmic radiation, in fact Firelord may give Superman a sun dip just being around him him.
Superman could easily grab Firelord drag him off at light speed away from the far slower, Terrax, and pummel the mess out of him. Superman is a far faster puncher/kicker.
The OP stated that energy sap isn't allowed. Therefore I automatically thought that they did not know who Superman is in this fight.
Superman would win. Firelord isn't incinerating a guy that has no problem living in the sun. In fact, what happens if Superman's laser beams are hotter than Firelord's core temp? Firelord may be the one getting burnt here.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When Terrax was beaten by the New Warriors, he was depowered/weakened.
Well, did Galactus return him to his former glory? Terrax is nothing more than a high meta these days, and far less than he was back when John Byrne sketched the Fantastic Four. Superman should be able to rock him with no problems at all. Loss of the axe (very possible, it's not enchanted) means loss of consciousness. He's really a non factor.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Didn't the New Warriors and Reed just call on Surfer to beat Terrax? Because that happened in the fight I am aware of. Or did they fight Terrax twice?
You're absolutely correct, and no they didn't fight twice. It wasn't a fight between Surfer and Terrax either, it was more of a grab Terrax by the collar and drop him off on an uninhabited planet, while he protested the punking that he received. This is a guy that would do what to Superman? Not much IMO, maybe scream, but that's about it.
Originally posted by StoicYou think a no-nonsense Surfer couldn't just blast Superman with red sun energy and drag him by the cape instantly to a planet orbiting a red sun?
You're absolutely correct, and no they didn't fight twice. It wasn't a fight between Surfer and Terrax either, it was more of a grab Terrax by the collar and drop him off on an uninhabited planet, while he protested the punking that he received. This is a guy that would do what to Superman? Not much IMO, maybe scream, but that's about it.
Surfer >>> Terrax. Terrax knows that. How does Superman being Superman change that? Surfer > Terrax. And Superman > Terrax. Which ultimately proves Superman > Terrax?
You didn't just assume your conclusion here?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You think a no-nonsense Surfer couldn't just blast Superman with red sun energy and drag him by the cape instantly to a planet orbiting a red sun?Surfer >>> Terrax. Terrax knows that. How does Superman being Superman change that? Surfer > Terrax. And Superman > Terrax. Which ultimately proves Superman > Terrax?
You didn't just assume your conclusion here?
Ah, but had this thread been Superman vs the Silver Surfer my opinion might take a different turn, and even that isn't a clear and cut victory for Norrin Radd. The Runner stuck a pin in his balloon with high speedy impact blows that are very often Superman's bread and butter. So this could go two ways... there is no definite when it would come to a conflict between the two. If I were to gauge who would win between them I would say Surfer would win most.
Why project? ABC logic is what you just did, not me. Superman's powers dictate that Terrax would be a non factor, especially if he is seperated from any viable land mass.
I launched my arguments on why I think Superman would crush Firelord, now if you want to give your opinion on whom you believe would win, give a good reason why you do, but don't try to undermine my reasons by stating that I was using ABC logic, when it is clear that you were the one doing so.
Originally posted by StoicYour argument is that Surfer stomped Terrax so Superman must stomp Terrax.
Ah, but had this thread been Superman vs the Silver Surfer my opinion might take a different turn, and even that isn't a clear and cut victory for Norrin Radd. The Runner stuck a pin in his balloon with high speedy impact blows that are very often Superman's bread and butter. So this could go two ways... there is no definite when it would come to a conflict between the two. If I were to gauge who would win between them I would say Surfer would win most.Why project? ABC logic is what you just did, not me. Superman's powers dictate that Terrax would be a non factor, especially if he is seperated from any viable land mass.
I launched my arguments on why I think Superman would crush Firelord, now if you want to give your opinion on whom you believe would win, give a good reason why you do, but don't try to undermine my reasons by stating that I was using ABC logic, when it is clear that you were the one doing so.
There is a gap in logic there. Unless you assumed Superman > Surfer. Which is ABC logic. Or unless you assumed Surfer> Superman > Terrax. Which is an ABC logic that you concluded to prove your conclusion.
This characterization is inaccurate? How?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your argument is that Surfer stomped Terrax so Superman must stomp Terrax.There is a gap in logic there. Unless you assumed Superman > Surfer. Which is ABC logic. Or unless you assumed Surfer> Superman > Terrax. Which is an ABC logic that you concluded to prove your conclusion.
This characterization is inaccurate? How?
Not so, I never said or claimed that Surfer stomped Terrax, what I stated is above. He came took and left. Terrax had no way of fighting the Surfer in his condition, because Galactus never returned him to his former glory. Terrax was therefore helpless to do anything because he had no viable land mass to manipulate.
There was no comparison being done between Surfer and Supes, Just that Terrax is an easy bfr. Like I said a non factor.
Originally posted by StoicSo how is that loss in any way indicative of Superman winning against Terrax, much less Terrax AND Firelord?
Not so, I never said or claimed that Surfer stomped Terrax, what I stated is above. He came took and left. Terrax had no way of fighting the Surfer in his condition, because Galactus never returned him to his former glory. Terrax was therefore helpless to do anything because he had no viable land mass to manipulate.There was no comparison being done between Surfer and Supes, Just that Terrax is an easy bfr. Like I said a non factor.
Because Terrax is a herald these days. High-metas don't bust planets in a single shot while heavily weakened. That's what Terrax did in Annihilation.