Originally posted by dmillsWell at least he used a rookie Surfer and used a plot device to beat him....I will take that over Rulk punching Surfer out any day.
Loeb would have Rulk drain Surfer lol!Pak actually has an affinity for cosmic characters so that doesn't surprise me.
Loeb was good not sure what happen with his Hulk runs 😉
Originally posted by kgkgHe's a DC guy. They don't typically adhere to a strict hierarchy the way Marvel does. Or should I say used to.
Well at least he used a rookie Surfer and used a plot device to beat him....I will take that over Rulk punching Surfer out any day.Loeb was good not sure what happen with his Hulk runs 😉
Originally posted by dmills
The stips don't mean jack. There's still stasis, mind rape, energy conversion, anti matter, mass conversion, shrinkage, black holes, freezing, astral plane, gravity Manipulation...
as to the rest:-
none of that would affect Hulk, he's already shrugged off matter manip by Goom (magical entity) and Stranger (iirc). Astral Plane doesn't work because he retains his Hulk prowess (Maestro's soul empowering The Destroyer rather than Banner's soul), mind rape is useless, anti-matter cant do anything to him (Savage Hulk long ago ripped matter and anti-matter with his bare hands), grav manipulation would only work as a bfr method, mass conversion goes back to bfr or matter manip which won't work, freezing would only be temporary (at best) and that's not taking into accound that Banner/Hulk _radiates_ gamma, shrinkage is useless because there's no internal weakness to be exploited (Hulk is as strong at the molecular level as hi is at the macro level) ...
Surfer normally starts off much stronger, more durable and with the capacity for amping too but, Current Hulk would be stronger and would amp so quickly (and, as demostrated against Red Hulk, have control over his gamma energies sufficient to avoid drainage) that it would be a test for Surfer's durability and resiliance.
over time, Surfer would wear down, whilst Hulk would be hitting new peaks of power ... not good 😐
the stips make this a fight Hulk can't lose.
^Uh, not so much.
Even with the stips Surfer would own Hulk and Son. He can simply transmute the air around them into something they can't escape, like say, adamantium (or a reasonable facsimile), and then walk up and cosmic teabag the statues. Or he can use the blob trick. Or he can transmute the air into a superheated corrosive acid. Or he could turn the ground into water so they have no place to stand. Or he could polarize them so that they act as magnets to each other and are bodily stuck together. Or he could encase their heads in darkness so they can't see anything, then hover above the ground quietly and let them flail around aimlessly like idiots.
The possibilities are endless.
Originally posted by janus77Tore matter and anti-matter apart with his hands? He's an energy manipulator now? Otherwise it's PIS.
for Surfer to stay out of range, he needs to be off planet or hanging in the upper atmosphere, both would be self-bfr, no?as to the rest:-
none of that would affect Hulk, he's already shrugged off matter manip by Goom (magical entity) and Stranger (iirc). Astral Plane doesn't work because he retains his Hulk prowess (Maestro's soul empowering The Destroyer rather than Banner's soul), mind rape is useless, anti-matter cant do anything to him (Savage Hulk long ago ripped matter and anti-matter with his bare hands), grav manipulation would only work as a bfr method, mass conversion goes back to bfr or matter manip which won't work, freezing would only be temporary (at best) and that's not taking into accound that Banner/Hulk _radiates_ gamma, shrinkage is useless because there's no internal weakness to be exploited (Hulk is as strong at the molecular level as hi is at the macro level) ...Surfer normally starts off much stronger, more durable and with the capacity for amping too but, Current Hulk would be stronger and would amp so quickly (and, as demostrated against Red Hulk, have control over his gamma energies sufficient to avoid drainage) that it would be a test for Surfer's durability and resiliance.
over time, Surfer would wear down, whilst Hulk would be hitting new peaks of power ... not good 😐
the stips make this a fight Hulk can't lose.
How will Surfer get tired?
Originally posted by dmills
Tore matter and anti-matter apart with his hands? He's an energy manipulator now? Otherwise it's PIS.How will Surfer get tired?
he's always been a "matter manipulator" in that extremely literal sense. check out the WWH - Sentry fight where Hulk uses Sentry's light-constructs as hand grips when he leaps into the air ...
yeah, Hulk has never been a simple brick, he's always exhibited these quirky powers, so no PIS.
Originally posted by janus77
because he'd be away from the battlefield.
he may not remove Hulk or Skaar but he will definitely have removed himself.
Not really, to be a genuine BFR he would have to remove himself in such a way that would place him unable to affect and be affected by the battlefield at all.
As long as the battlefield is in range of his abilities, I don't think it should be classified as a "BFR". There's really no "ring-out" stips here or at least there shouldn't be.
Anyway, Surfer blows up the planet, dances around as Hulk and Skaar floats around in space, suffocating.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not really, to be a genuine BFR he would have to remove himself in such a way that would place him unable to affect and be affected by the battlefield at all.As long as the battlefield is in range of his abilities, I don't think it should be classified as a "BFR". There's really no "ring-out" stips here or at least there shouldn't be.
Anyway, Surfer blows up the planet, dances around as Hulk and Skaar floats around in space, suffocating.
oh and Hulk (most likely Skaar too) doesn't suffocate in space. according to Nick Fury, he evolved to not require oxygen (during his fight in space with Godseye). and also, he was standing atop the Stoneship, as it flew through space, on its way to Earth.
blowing up the planet would result in stalemate. though in that scenario Hulk wouldn't be able to attack Surfer 🙂
Originally posted by janus77
hmm, I'm sure there's a default battlefield dimension on KMC, with combatents standing at a default distance from each other.oh and Hulk (most likely Skaar too) doesn't suffocate in space. according to Nick Fury, he evolved to not require oxygen (during his fight in space with Godseye). and also, he was standing atop the Stoneship, as it flew through space, on its way to Earth.
blowing up the planet would result in stalemate. though in that scenario Hulk wouldn't be able to attack Surfer 🙂
I remember instances where Hulk needed to breathe, but I guess that was quite some time back. 😛
Also, why would blowing up the planet result in a stalemate? This allows the Surfer to just blast them at his leisure while they float helplessly in space...
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I remember instances where Hulk needed to breathe, but I guess that was quite some time back. 😛Also, why would blowing up the planet result in a stalemate? This allows the Surfer to just blast them at his leisure while they float helplessly in space...
imo, blasts would end up just empowering Hulk (like nuclear explosions and gamma rays do). Hulk is clearly capable of surviving planet destroying blasts without trouble (Sakaar).
yeah Hulk "adapted" to breathing under water in Tempus Fugit (I think), but later on he stated that all his Savage Hulk antics were merely the adolescence of his power so, I guess he wasn't really aware of this until after the Godseye incident, also remember that he leaps from Sakaar to the moon and back, without any breathing equipment.
Originally posted by janus77
if blasting was gonna do anything but infuriate (strengthen) Hulk, then it would have worked with or without the planet being blown up.imo, blasts would end up just empowering Hulk (like nuclear explosions and gamma rays do). Hulk is clearly capable of surviving planet destroying blasts without trouble (Sakaar).
yeah Hulk "adapted" to breathing under water in Tempus Fugit (I think), but later on he stated that all his Savage Hulk antics were merely the adolescence of his power so, I guess he wasn't really aware of this until after the Godseye incident, also remember that he leaps from Sakaar to the moon and back, without any breathing equipment.
I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.
Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.
TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be).
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Truth. And he'd beat them quite easily at that imo.
I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.
TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be).
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I'm pretty sure current Surfer has the firepower to KO the Hulk and with his ability to read his opponent's weaknesses, he can prolly pattern his energy blasts to weaken the Hulk and not empower him.Also, he CAN always just pull Hulk into the Astral Plane then pummel him there.
TBH, Surfer just has WAYYYY too many options versus Hulk's one-dimensional abilities (potent as they might be).
as for the energy thing, you know that the more annoyed he gets, the more durable he gets... so unless he's quickly KOed (which I don't see anyone under high SkyFather having the ability to do), he'll just overcome all attacks.
Hulk's offensive capabilities are limited, it is true, but his range of defenses are not. from psychic to magic to physical to energetic attacks, all have been repulsed/absorbed/manipulated/overcome to varying degrees by Hulk. in defensive terms, he's the best there is.
Surfer's options have traditionally been 1) gamma drain 2) bfr and 3) tank Hulk's initial attacks and calm him down/reason with him.
Surfer can tank a few attacks from Current Hulk, but eventually it'll prove too much (as Hulk is motivated to fight Surfer), but he cannot gamma drain nor bfr so...
Originally posted by janus77
I honestly don't think the Astral Plane trick will work on him. he's both Hulk and Banner on both planes (as I said before, The Maestro's soul already fought against prof. hulk, by using the Destroyer). Hulk would retain his powers there.as for the energy thing, you know that the more annoyed he gets, the more durable he gets... so unless he's quickly KOed (which I don't see anyone under high SkyFather having the ability to do), he'll just overcome all attacks.
Hulk's [b]offensive
capabilities are limited, it is true, but his range of defenses are not. from psychic to magic to physical to energetic attacks, all have been repulsed/absorbed/manipulated/overcome to varying degrees by Hulk. in defensive terms, he's the best there is.Surfer's options have traditionally been 1) gamma drain 2) bfr and 3) tank Hulk's initial attacks and calm him down/reason with him.
Surfer can tank a few attacks from Current Hulk, but eventually it'll prove too much (as Hulk is motivated to fight Surfer), but he cannot gamma drain nor bfr so... [/B]
Again, Surfer needs not tank anything the Hulk does. He's gonna be simply out of Hulk's punching range and should be too fast for the Hulk to simply leap towards while he's in flight.
I mean, how is Hulk even going to HIT the Surfer?? It's not like the Surfer is going to stand there and let the Hulk hit him.
Hulk has NO chance here. He can go all WB on Surfer and he still won't be able to lay a hand on him.
Surfer did the Astral plane attack on a creature far superior physically to him. It has been stated that in the Astral Plane, the Power Cosmic is at its strongest. IF this is the case, even if Hulk retained his full powers, he has no chance vs the Surfer in the Astral Plane.
Surfer can also simply absorb the Hulk into the board or revert him to banner by simply using his PC to slowly calm him down (being able to affect emotions is something the PC has been able to do as well).
Even at the worst possible instance, Surfer wins this eventually. Though he can win this quite quickly (and convincingly at that).
Surfer wins 10/10 here. No chance for Hulk to win and Skaar isn't even a factor.
Surfer took Murungu (sp?) to the Astral Plane, I don't know of any character more powerful than Hulk.
Hulk's reach and accuracy are a part of the character, if Thor can hit Surfer (which he shouldn't but he does) so can Hulk. not about to debate being able to hit him, so we can just agree to disagree on that 😐
as for the whole business of trapping Hulk in the board, again you really are underestimating the kind of strength Hulk has, he'd rip it to shreds. no calming or whatever.
yes Surfer can affect emotions (he's done so worldwide), but he's never done so against Hulk and I have seen no feats of such manipulation against herald levellers. I doubt it'll work for the same reason Prof. X can't get at Hulk's mind.