Shang Chi vs Lizard

Originally posted by wasaki

Man, I see no point in trying to convince you because I see your opinion comes from your hatred towards the character, so arguing wont get us anywhere, but I will take time to explain few things to anyone who's interested.

Spider-man holds back all the time even against people with super durability, let alone peak humans. That's not something JS "pulled out of his ass" Anyone who's read more than 2 Spider-man books know it as it's been stated on-panel dozens and dozens of times. And because he's holding back and pulling his punches making sure he doesnt seriously hurt anyone it holds his speed back as well. Also stated on-panel. And thats the only reason he sometimes has trouble with MA fighters.

Whenever he gets pissed (CIF off) and starts holding back LESS than usually (still not going all out) trained MA fighters with no super powers and abilities stand little chance against him. A few examples.

As for Jigsaw, it was confirmed that was meant to be a class 70-100 character, if you dont trust me read NA, Spider-man later b!tchslapped real Jigsaw with zero efforts. And his hand is durable enough to shatter Ironman's armor. Hope that helps.

Do you have the Issue numbers of the Kraven and IF scans?

Sorry, man. Had the fights saved on my PC for a long time, cant remember what are the issue numbers.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Do you have the Issue numbers of the Kraven and IF scans?

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I doubt Spider-Man was going all-out. He almost never does so, which is exactly why trained martial arts are able to hit him in the first place.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
If Spider-Man hurt his fists punching Lizard, then he would have to amp far beyond peak-human to anything.

also spidermna has punch and beaten lizard numerous times with out hurting his fist, dont give me that garbage.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I don't think Shang-Chi is Iron Fist, but you seem to have the two confused. 😛

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I can tell you that the IF fight does not end after that punch and is far far far longer then what was posted.

Originally posted by SamZED
That's true. But Spider-man was pretty much beating him the whole time.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree, it was pretty even fight the entire time. Spiderman even resorts to using a sign as a weapon at one point if not mistaken. It ends up as a draw as I recall with spiderman I believe (realizing he was in the wrong, which tends to be a common occurences when he fights other hero's)

Ive read the fight recently, it was IF who had to resort to trickery and only tagged Spider-man once through the entire fight, and even that happened while SM was in midair too busy dodging some trap to react to the attack. He didnt use the sign as a weapon, he simply tossed IF in it. imo it was pretty onesided.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I can tell you that the IF fight does not end after that punch and is far far far longer then what was posted.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why does it matter if he was going all out? No it not. Him going all out has nothing to do with his speed. He holds bakc his strength in fear of killing humans, that has nothing to do with his speed. Also shang-chi was trying no harder then spiderman.

You notice that Spider-Man and Shang-Chi basically exchanged blows for that match, right? Do you really think that Shang-Chi would have even survived the first hit if Peter was applying all his strength behind that blow? Also, if you hold back in strength you will also hold back the speed of your punches. It's basic physics.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
shang-chi has amp his strength high enough to block and absorb 100 class punches.

You're completely wrong about that. He spread out the impact of the punch throughout his entire body. He didn't enhance his durability or his strength to accomplish that. Shang didn't walk away from that punch unscathed either: his whole body was bleeding internally, or at the very least his arms.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also spidermna has punch and beaten lizard numerous times with out hurting his fist, dont give me that garbage.

When has Spider-Man punched Lizard into submission?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You simply don't know shit about shang-chi. Dont be condecending to me, when you don't know shit about a character. Shang-chi has ability to amp his chi quite similar to IF. He simply lacks the backing of mystical energy. He prior to IF upgrades was actually the more versed with chi manipulation and was the first of the to, to uses it in range attack fashion. Chi can amp his speed and strength well beyond human standards.

Stop getting pissy at a joke because your ego can't handle it.

That backing makes all the difference in this match. Iron Fist can hurt and defeat the Lizard because he has that great well of energy to draw from whenever he needs to fight a more dangerous opponent. After his upgrade there are many panels supporting the power he can channel. Just because Shang can do the same things doesn't mean he can defeat the Lizard. I can tell you how fast and how strong the Lizard can be, yet all I hear are these vague claims of "superhuman strength" and "chi manipulation". How strong/fast/durable can he get with his chi? What are his most impressive feats while doing so? Answer those questions.

I've seen the scans where Shang supposedly takes on high-class opponents, and they're all bunk/overhyped like crazy. He flips Thing with a kick, and now he can "hurt" Thing. He blocks one punch from Hiroim by distributing the force and hurts his body badly in the process, and now he can tank Class 100 blows all day long. 🙄

in a comic fight i see Shang pulling the win consistently....

also like to point out that reducing your strength of your blow does not necessarily hinder your speed or vice versa, its called control..

if you need real examples go track down and look at the MA reflex, speed, strength videos..

Originally posted by King Castle
in a comic fight i see Shang pulling the win consistently....

also like to point out that reducing your strength of your blow does not necessarily hinder your speed or vice versa, its called control..

if you need real examples go track down and look at the MA reflex, speed, strength videos..

Spider-Man is not a martial artist. He doesn't use rotational energy to enhance his strikes or anything of the sort consistently, although he has displayed similar knowledge while using the environment to his advantage.

regardless that spidey is not a MA's it doesnt take away from the fact that there is no evidence that his speed is reduced b/c of his conscious restriction of his strength the two do not always go hand in hand spiderman should and has demonstrated enough control to prove he can reflexively react and still hit with the required strength without effecting his speed.

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics?

He's faster when he's not holding back that's for sure.

Originally posted by King Castle

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics?

There are other examples, but this is the only one I can provide now.

Originally posted by King Castle
regardless that spidey is not a MA's it doesnt take away from the fact that there is no evidence that his speed is reduced b/c of his conscious restriction of his strength the two do not always go hand in hand spiderman should and has demonstrated enough control to prove he can reflexively react and still hit with the required strength without effecting his speed.

care tor provide on panel evidence where spiderman states that his reduction of strength makes him slower or is it something you infer on him with no factual evidence both in science or in comics?

I'm talking about the speed of his punches, not his movement speed.

Originally posted by SamZED

There are other examples, but this is the only one I can provide now.

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights..

Originally posted by King Castle
that is not what i am asking for. his unwillingness to kill makes him be careful second guess himself and apply different tactics then simply punching them and killing them...

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights..

Logan was talking about SM fighting in general as they were beating dozens of soldiers. Not that particular throw. So imo it still aplies. But as I said, that's not the only example, but the only one I can get my hands on now.

Originally posted by Parmaniac

neither of the scans shows that but simply shows his traveling, dodging speed at full gear....... we know that spidey doesnt always fight in full gear but never has it bn stated that his reduction of speed reduces the speed of his punch.

especially when we have seen spidey go full steam on human lvl being and not kill them and still reduce the striking power without effecting his punching speed.

Originally posted by King Castle
that is not what i am asking for. his unwillingness to kill makes him be careful second guess himself and apply different tactics then simply punching them and killing them...

spidey grabbing his opponents is not the evidence i am asking for i am asking for a punch stating to be slower b/c he reduced his strength.

example if spidey truly slowed down when he holds back his strength then the spidey/Kingpin beating wouldnt have bn so one sided.. since Kingpin would have bn able to grab him and spidey wouldn have showed the lvl of strength control he should on kingpin while going full speed.

which completely overturns the statement that he is slower b.c he reduces his speed...

same with pissed off spidey/DD fights..

Spider-Man was not holding back during the Back In Black Kingpin fight. He wasn't truly bloodlusted (he let the Kingpin live and threatened to kill him the minute May died), but he absolutely demolished him. Fisk is no slouch in the H2H department either: he's a master of many martial arts, and challenged Spider-Man in past fights. But in that particular fight he was beaten like a redheaded step-child.