Originally posted by D_Dude1210This proves nothing. Soul suck resistance feat, etc. aren't SS going to the Astral field while in battle to attack someone. These feats aren't commutative. But still we agree to disagree that it's leaving the battlefield.
For some reason, your previous post didn't pop up in my office computer (or I couldn't see it). So let me address them now.Sigh. Already addressed in previous posts. But let me re-post for your benefit.
Surfer has multiple Astral/Soul feats. Two SEPARATE Astral attacks in "In thy Name". There was his Soul gem escape feat. His soul suck resistance feat. As well as the feat wherein he rescued Puppet Master from the Astral Plane. More than sufficient showings of an EXOTIC (aka RARE) power (soul abilities). Also, please update your definition of PIS via the rules portion, I don't think you know it's meaning.
I know what the Astral field is. By the spirit of the forum rules it is leaving the battlefield.
State =/= location. This isn't AD&D, you need to read up a little bit more about the proper definition of things before making ignorant statements.
Addressed above.
Astal form attack was in the same LOCATION as his physical body, this is why they were BOTH DRAWN to be occupying the same area. Artwork disagrees with you. Astral Plane definition disagrees with you. Not BFR. You haven't disproven this so I'm taking it as a concession on your part.You failed to address these issues, so I will take that as a concession.
My reasoning is more deductive than inductive. It is arguing from general to specific. And that is not the reason why people don't argue that against characters (even characters that haven't shown resistance).
All this rules lawyering from someone who clearly didn't even read the rules or understood the words involved thoroughly. And you have the gall to deny being deceptive.Inductive reasoning, also known as induction or inductive logic, or educated guess in colloquial English, is a kind of reasoning that draws generalized conclusions from a finite collection of specific observations. The premises of an inductive logical argument indicate some degree of support (inductive probability) for the conclusion but do not entail it; that is, they suggest truth but do not ensure it.
Inductive reasoning based on the POSSIBLE (unproven) common perception of posters (argumentum ad populum ).
Translation: You're DEBATING based on an unproven logically false guesstimate . Fuuuun.
This entire line of your debate is absolutely pointless.
1) A lot of times, it's not necessary for Surfer to win.
2) A lot of heralds have Astral/Soul/Willpower resistance feats (even Superman). So ppl would naturally not use it to argue against these characters.
There was a scene where Dr. M says he can seem time simultaneously as one. Then the scene where he is perceiving time as a standstill (time just about stops). Then the scene where is says he has perceived events so fast that they are said to not have occurred at all (light beams can be seen to occur). He repairs the television (astronomical amount of subatomic particles) in the instant it was destroyed.
Dr M having light speed reflexes? Post proof or I call BS.
Well if that's the case then Surfer can win. We just have to be sure the 10 second rule is official though.
Not being able to fight back (according to the mods, 10 seconds) after being dispersed due to reforming time needed (w/c, from the Watchmen issues I read, took time) can be considered a KO via forum rules.
Dr. M has at least light speed reflexes and can see time as one whole. But Surfer has a chance if the 10 second rule is legit.
You didn't read my post did you? Sigh. See above paragraph.3 Things:
1) Surfer pwns him before he can blink.
2) Surfer tanks it. As he has survived being sliced apart before.
3) You've never proven that Dr M can use teleportation offensively. Post proofs or I call BS on this one, too. Again, different level of skills teleporting large objects vs teleporting smaller objects moving at high speeds.
Surfer reforming is PIS because it contradicts his ability to lose against anyone short of Galactus. That would mean Thanos can't beat him, Thor can't beat him, etc.
Having your body separated into pieces is far worst than getting hit upside the head (you are still in one piece). If you can survive the former you sure as hell can survive the latter.
You really need to concede on the "teleport apart" nonsense. I can already feel you faltering on it. LOL.Surfer being KOd by Thanos, Odin and Thor....! Seriously, this is the best you have? None of us can HONESTLY say (tho I'm sure YOU'LL try) that we know how Surfer's physiology works. Fact is, even though, energy attacks and sufficient kinetic blows KO him, it doesn't mean he falls under the same rules as normal human physiology. Especially since he HAS showings that point out that he doesn't.
This would contradict everything, thus it can't be used. He would be simply unbeatable by all short of Galactus. Think about it. I'm willing to accept that only if you are willing to accept that SS would be unbeatable by Thanos and all heralds levels (Thor,Superman, etc). If so then SS is my new poster boy for debating, not Superman anymore.
Examples:Surfer has been dispersed before (see previous scans). He's been able to nonchalantly reshape his own body via manipulation (In Thy Name when he was skewered by en energy harpoon). As well as reform after being sliced apart. 3 different scans of varying degree. Multiple showings of his ability to survive what would be "fatal wounds" to normal humans. More than enough showings. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not valid.
lol. You are funny Dude.
How many feats does Dr M have that shows him using teleportation offensively? None. I'm sure.Name an instance where adamantium was DAMAGED via an offensive teleport? None. I'm sure.
Recanted mastefully like a politician. You SHOULD be a politician. You certainly lie like one.
Teleportation doesn't require damaging something. Doomsday has been teleported, Darkseid, Thanos, etc. Its shown in comics that Nightcrawler can teleport being's parts off of them.
I concede here. I will mention with help from now on. I can't be deceiving others if I can help it. I Didn't mean to do this if I did.
Because he DID have help (w/c places context on the feat) and a lot of ppl will just believe that he pulled solo if you don't mention it. And I rarely ever see you post "with help" every time you mention "50 Earth weights". Which leads me to believe that THIS is what you want ppl to think. Ergo, deception.
And btw, I remember your computation, it was RIFE with unproven ASSUMPTIONS.
I did. Mageddon, two Earth pulling feats (with help), holding black holes, hitting with dimensional shattering power, lifting infinite page book, lifting eternity, etc.Commutative or not, you need to prove upper limits of strength to establish RANGE before you can claim that lower level strength feats can be derived.
Point out at LEAST THREE feats from Superman with computations where the range is above the "50 Earth weights" BS.
Two showings are multiple showings. But unfortunately this still isn't enough for rare feats. Just because you can use the term 'multiple showings' doesn't mean they count.
Fortunately, Surfer HAS multiple showings of his Astral Abilities so this trumps every argument you have.
Here I agree with you. English is my weak point. I can and may have contradicted myself due to poor English skills. But my intentions are sincere. Sometimes I just can't express my view as I want.
The fact that you use the term commutative for teleportation and suddenly, it's NOT? You should use different words to describe the same ability if you don't want to be caught on a contradiction. Or is your vocabulary that limited? I get your reasoning, but I simply pointed out the contradiction/irony in your own words.
