Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course you left out context.. the context of Thanos allowing that to happen.. the context of Thanos trying to put on a show for death.. How do you put on a show.. by making it seem difficult. We saw spiderman kick and move Thanos almost over.. yet Thanos can walk through an odin gungnir blast.. does that makes sense to you? M. Thor can knock over Thanos with a hammer shot.. yet a weaker clone can stop Thor's hammer with his TK with ease.. Does that makes sense to you.. We aren't even talking about regular Thanos either we are talking IG weilding Thanos... The context is.. he was putting on a show and allowing all that to happen to make it seem like they had a chance... It was further a case of PIS for the sake of the story.. How fun would it be for Thanos to have pwned all of them with a gesture from another galaxy away? It wouldn't have been.You also realize.. that even in a normal situation that blow would've have done a thing to Thanos right? You know thanos has a very good healing factor as well right? He's been through a lot worse and healed from a lot worse than Wolv. claws being shoved inside him... Being at the nexus of reality and the black hole come to mind... He heals very quickly.. maybe not as quickly as the Hulk but very quickly. If he can heal from those severe attacks quickly.. why would someone with no cutting ability even pose a threat to him.. Do you honestly think he would punch him to death? lol. Show me Thanos getting KO'd by punches in his entire history.. It doesn't exist.. He has only been KO'd a couple of times and that was via energy.. blunt force trama does very little to Thanos.. So what is Hulk going to do again?
Now you're not getting something here which is undisputable... Prof. Hulk is still very strong.. Prof.. hulk was still pissed.. this was base level hulk this was already pissed off hulk WITH WITH WITH another pissed off class 100 brick in The Thing... So do you get how much stronger that makes Thanos? If he can EASILY overpower a pissed off Prof Hulk WITH the help of another class 100 guy.. with ease... what does that tell us... He is a lot stronger than a hulk that is already raging and building up strength and another class 100 AT THE SAME TIME. Thanos even tells us... 'you call yourselves strong... I'm strength personified" That is how ease it was and how little he thought of both their strength at the same time... So.. your whole WWH will already be stronger is just nonsense... Even that Hulk would have to build up enough anger just to match where Thanos is already at... Now onto your no limit fallacy...
You do realize that saying Hulk can get as strong as he wants doesn't work right? We've never ever seen Hulk get mad enough to be as strong as his hyperbole implies.. Now I'm not saying it's not part of his powerset.. I'm saying... he never ever makes it to that level.. so to say that this is a possibility in a normal situation is just plain off. In fact, it's not even in the realm of possiblities since we've never seen it in all of Hulk appearances.. 1000s of them. To go further...
One reason why we don't see it is he's KO'd or put down before that. Now you avoided my question before but try and answer it now... HERE IT IS.. You do realize that Hulk has been KO'd A LOT more times than Thanos has ever been KO'd. Thanos doesn't even get KO'd from punches or blunt force Trama... Hammer shots from a amped Thor with the PG all made him smile and come back for more.. However, Hulk has been KO'd countless times before ever reaching this "I can get as strong as I need to be" level... So what is clear is if anybody is getting KO'd via blunt force trama it's Hulk not Thanos.
The only thing that Thanos allowed was his own depowerment, Wolverine cutting him was valid, and it did happen, and it did hurt Thanos at the very moment of impact.
The Nexus of reality had nothing to do with Thanos' immunity to damage, he was being broken down by various dichotomies. Physically speaking, he had no choice but to go with it, much like you or I would need to ride the Proverbial Wave... I saw that as more a test of his mental faculties than actual physical resistance. We all saw the changes that occured to him within the Nexus. He merely refused to bytch up to the stresses involved with travelling through the Nexus. Agreed?
The Thing is not a class 100 being, the She Hulk lifted his max weight with ease using one arm, if he is class 100 he would be on the very low end of spectrum. That was also as I mentioned before not a true battle. The slap didn't impress me whatsoever, nor did grabbing the Thing and the Hulk and smacking their heads together. I could see him one shotting the Thing but not Professor Hulk. Once again, this is a moot point, because the Professor, is not in this discussion, nor was this incarnation anywhere near as strong as the current Hulk.
On panel the Beyonder was able to see how powerful the Hulk was, who better to weigh an infinite power, than another infinite power? If this point fails to get the point across, lets look at the Planet Hulk arc closer. When Sakaar went postal and was on the verge of destruction the Hulk initially did not have the raw power or strength to stop it from shifting. You see him walk away, and then go back and attempt to stop it again. In his second attempt he gains the strength needed and overcomes the explosion of the planet, which was nearly instantaeneous. What happened there? Could he have gotten stronger? Yes he could have.
I'm not dodging the fact that the Hulk has been KO'd more than Thanos, but he has far more appearances in comics than Thanos, if we gave Thanos 500 plus appearances he too would have been KO'd for plot purposes. The Hulk is also not always at the same level, which invalidates the point. Thanos did not KO the Hulk, this claim is also invalid.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Professor Hulk is the stable synthesis of Savage Hulk, Bruce Banner and Grey Hulk. That wasn't who appeared in Secret Wars.
This is likely the dynamic that I missed, I failed to see the Grey Hulk dynamic that the Hulk of the Secret Wars lacked. Hmmm... that's a novelty, a smart Savage Hulk.
Originally posted by Nihilist
@Stoic, WWH was getting carved up with ease by Wolverine and was easeily made to bleed by punches from She Hulk,Thing and depwered Juggernaut, so hows that for durrability....thats way below Thanos durability.
Did you miss when Wolverine said that the Hulk was tougher to cut this time around? His toughness was a direct mirror of his strength level, was he really pouring it on in his fight with the X-Men or any other hero on earth? No! The only time that he even approached the level of strength that he used to hold Sakaar together, was when he went World Breaker. He never once used that kind of strength against even Zom Strange, Juggernaut or the Sentry. In fact his battles with all of them seemed to be him in a far calmer state. Check it out for yourself. Had he have utilized this level of power against Ares he would have cut him in two, She Hulk would have died from a shove, Cain would have been picked up and launched into space, Colossus would have been ripped in two.... etc. The Hulk didn't go HP Doomsday on anyone, and when he surpassed even HP Doomsday in strength, he begged for someone to stop him. reigning in his might threatened to destroy the planet, so imagine what would have happened if he let loose?
Thanos has never on panel shown this type of strength, could WW Hulk have exceeded even what was seen? Yes he could have. Let us also not forget that he has Thor and Wonder Woman on his team as well if Thanos proves to be able to hang with him in a slug fest, which I highly doubt.
Originally posted by Nihilist
@Stoic, WWH was getting carved up with ease by Wolverine and was easeily made to bleed by punches from She Hulk,Thing and depwered Juggernaut, so hows that for durrability....thats way below Thanos durability.
The Juggernaut was not depowered in his last fight with WW Hulk, he was at full strength. The depowered version was owned. Also even if these guys made the Hulk bleed, he is never at the same level of strength or durability. His power changes as often as a normal persons blood pressure. The Hulk has no cap on strength or durability.
We can change tag team partners as well, how about Superman, Thor, and Wonder Woman vs Thanos, and WW Hulk vs Darkseid? People have claimed that Darkseid has super speed, the Hulk has super speed as well. In fact the only reason why the Hulk jumps instead of runs is because he would destroy the ground beneath his feet at high speeds.
Originally posted by Stoic
Let us also not forget that he has Thor and Wonder Woman on his team as well if Thanos proves to be able to hang with him in a slug fest, which I highly doubt.
...and they have SM! This to me, is the whole essence of the fight. The numbers! It is assumed and agreed by many here that Darkseid falls first in the fight, whether it's a 2 on 1, or 3 on 1. It's possible he could lose a 1 on 1 depending on his opponent, but that would drag out. Still, I like Team 2's chances better if they go 3 on 1 vs Darkseid (so that he falls soon), and decide between themselves a volunteer to occupy Thanos and get their ass kicked, because I think they'll need more firepower later to take him down than to send three at him where he can weaken the 3some some.
Either way, I don't see a win here for Team 1. Can they win, sure? It is slim? Absolutely. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see it. All on Team 2 are capable experienced brawlers, none to the extent Thanos is, but there is too much to worry about. Those siding with Team 1 make it seem these punches and kicks are coming from "street levelers".
And for those who say WWH doesn't start off in a state that makes him a factor, I say SM, WW and Thor clobber him upside the head once, and then say "attack". Good luck caging that beast.
I mean this is a slugfest. I think a good analogy is having Lesnar and Cain in a UFC match taking on the 4 next best opponents. The 2 are not coming out on top, guys. I don't see this any differently.
Originally posted by BobbyD
...and they have SM! This to me, is the whole essence of the fight. The numbers! It is assumed and agreed by many here that Darkseid falls first in the fight, whether it's a 2 on 1, or 3 on 1. It's possible he could lose a 1 on 1 depending on his opponent, but that would drag out. Still, I like Team 2's chances better if they go 3 on 1 vs Darkseid (so that he falls soon), and decide between themselves a volunteer to occupy Thanos and get their ass kicked, because I think they'll need more firepower later to take him down than to send three at him where he can weaken the 3some some.Either way, I don't see a win here for Team 1. Can they win, sure? It is slim? Absolutely. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see it. All on Team 2 are capable experienced brawlers, none to the extent Thanos is, but there is too much to worry about. Those siding with Team 1 make it seem these punches and kicks are coming from "street levelers".
And for those who say WWH doesn't start off in a state that makes him a factor, I say SM, WW and Thor clobber him upside the head once, and then say "attack". Good luck caging that beast.
I mean this is a slugfest. I think a good analogy is having Lesnar and Cain in a UFC match taking on the 4 next best opponents. The 2 are not coming out on top, guys. I don't see this any differently.
I would agree for the most part, but WW Hulk has the most dynamic strength in this thread. None of these guys can kick it up to his level of strength, and as it so happens, his durability ramps up as he becomes stronger. Slug fest wise, Thanos or Darkseid would be in for it if he faced off against either of them.
I just have a very hard time believing that either Darkseid or Thanos has natural body armor that surpasses the durability of a dimensional barrier, or a dimensional barrier sealed by magic meant to contain beings that if let loose would have devoured a universe. The Hulk in a weaker state broke through these barriers with his own fists.
Originally posted by Stoic
I would agree for the most part, but WW Hulk has the most dynamic strength in this thread. None of these guys can kick it up to his level of strength, and as it so happens, his durability ramps up as he becomes stronger. Slug fest wise, Thanos or Darkseid would be in for it if he faced off against either of them.I just have a very hard time believing that either Darkseid or Thanos has natural body armor that surpasses the durability of a dimensional barrier, or a dimensional barrier sealed by magic meant to contain beings that if let loose would have devoured a universe. The Hulk in a weaker state broke through these barriers with his own fists.
I don't need to go that far to see a victory. I think it simply comes down to numbers here.
Originally posted by StoicYeah he said harder to cut..thats all and he cut other versions of the Hulk with ease, and he was still slicing open WWH without much trouble.
Did you miss when Wolverine said that the Hulk was tougher to cut this time around? His toughness was a direct mirror of his strength level, was he really pouring it on in his fight with the X-Men or any other hero on earth? No! The only time that he even approached the level of strength that he used to hold Sakaar together, was when he went World Breaker. He never once used that kind of strength against even Zom Strange, Juggernaut or the Sentry. In fact his battles with all of them seemed to be him in a far calmer state. Check it out for yourself. Had he have utilized this level of power against Ares he would have cut him in two, She Hulk would have died from a shove, Cain would have been picked up and launched into space, Colossus would have been ripped in two.... etc. The Hulk didn't go HP Doomsday on anyone, and when he surpassed even HP Doomsday in strength, he begged for someone to stop him. reigning in his might threatened to destroy the planet, so imagine what would have happened if he let loose?
WWH was at peak fighting strength against Juggernaut,Zomstrange and Sentry(worldbreaker aint pure strentgh as it cleary shows on panel the ground and enviroment getting wrecked by gamma before he took a step). And against the 3 i named WWH didnt dominate at all, Juggs held his own without any fuss,Zomstarnge was wrecking him badly(if Strange hadnt have stopped Hulk would have been done, he was on his knees screaming in agony) and only just put down Sentry after having 7 free shots.
Originally posted by StoicThe first fight he was depowered and easily busted open WWH with one punch.
The Juggernaut was not depowered in his last fight with WW Hulk, he was at full strength. The depowered version was owned. Also even if these guys made the Hulk bleed, he is never at the same level of strength or durability. His power changes as often as a normal persons blood pressure. The Hulk has no cap on strength or durability.We can change tag team partners as well, how about Superman, Thor, and Wonder Woman vs Thanos, and WW Hulk vs Darkseid? People have claimed that Darkseid has super speed, the Hulk has super speed as well. In fact the only reason why the Hulk jumps instead of runs is because he would destroy the ground beneath his feet at high speeds.
What you fail to see, or perhaps refuse to see, is that the Hulks durability increases with his strength level, Thanos' durability does not, which is why he uses shielding to protect himself. Either way Thanos is not indestructible, or beyond being injured. The numbers are against him, and half of team 2 could definitely hang with Darkseid until Thanos is out of the equation via triple team assaults. Immortals can't be killed, but they can be KO'd.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Yeah he said harder to cut..thats all and he cut other versions of the Hulk with ease, and he was still slicing open WWH without much trouble.WWH was at peak fighting strength against Juggernaut,Zomstrange and Sentry(worldbreaker aint pure strentgh as it cleary shows on panel the ground and enviroment getting wrecked by gamma before he took a step). And against the 3 i named WWH didnt dominate at all, Juggs held his own without any fuss,Zomstarnge was wrecking him badly(if Strange hadnt have stopped Hulk would have been done, he was on his knees screaming in agony) and only just put down Sentry after having 7 free shots.
He was having trouble cutting him up, which is why he made the statement in the first place. Thanos however was ripped open like a hot knife through butter. The wound was gaping.
It was his footfall that caused the destruction.
WW Hulk did not pour it on until the end of the arc. None of the characters that you mentioned would have been able to withstand the might that he was letting loose at the end of issue 5.
If WW Hulk used all of the power at his disposal, the arc would have been over in one book instead of five, with cross over issues in between. Marketting is a real thing in that industry.
Originally posted by Stoic
The only thing that Thanos allowed was his own depowerment, Wolverine cutting him was valid, and it did happen, and it did hurt Thanos at the very moment of impact.The Nexus of reality had nothing to do with Thanos' immunity to damage, he was being broken down by various dichotomies. Physically speaking, he had no choice but to go with it, much like you or I would need to ride the Proverbial Wave... I saw that as more a test of his mental faculties than actual physical resistance. We all saw the changes that occured to him within the Nexus. He merely refused to bytch up to the stresses involved with travelling through the Nexus. Agreed?
The Thing is not a class 100 being, the She Hulk lifted his max weight with ease using one arm, if he is class 100 he would be on the very low end of spectrum. That was also as I mentioned before not a true battle. The slap didn't impress me whatsoever, nor did grabbing the Thing and the Hulk and smacking their heads together. I could see him one shotting the Thing but not Professor Hulk. Once again, this is a moot point, because the Professor, is not in this discussion, nor was this incarnation anywhere near as strong as the current Hulk.
On panel the Beyonder was able to see how powerful the Hulk was, who better to weigh an infinite power, than another infinite power? If this point fails to get the point across, lets look at the Planet Hulk arc closer. When Sakaar went postal and was on the verge of destruction the Hulk initially did not have the raw power or strength to stop it from shifting. You see him walk away, and then go back and attempt to stop it again. In his second attempt he gains the strength needed and overcomes the explosion of the planet, which was nearly instantaeneous. What happened there? Could he have gotten stronger? Yes he could have.
I'm not dodging the fact that the Hulk has been KO'd more than Thanos, but he has far more appearances in comics than Thanos, if we gave Thanos 500 plus appearances he too would have been KO'd for plot purposes. The Hulk is also not always at the same level, which invalidates the point. Thanos did not KO the Hulk, this claim is also invalid.
First, he didn't just depower himself but was putting on a show for death… When you put on a show.. part of it is making it seem like they have a chance or in danger.. That is why you're reading too much into that scene… he had the IG for God's sake.. yet spiderman's kick almost floored him… Thor's hammer did floor him.. cyclops eye beams.. etc etc. He's taken far far more with out the same affects yet with the IG he can take less. It was for the sake of the story because he was putting on a show.
Next, I think you need to go look at read Thanos at the nexus of realities again.. His body and face were literally melting away.. and he would heal himself.. In panel after panel this was happening… His healing factor is that good as well as being able to control your body at a molecular level. This in no way shape or form was all mental in the least. He wasn't holding his head straining to keep mental control or anything along those lines which would indicate mental strain. It was physical not mental.. If he can heal that quickly from being basically melted away time after time.. you think wolverine stabbing him did a thing to him or had him in any danger you're sadly mistaken.
I'm really not sure why you keep on acting like it wasn't a strength feat for Thanos… when in fact it was exactly that.. an indication of how strong Thanos is.. Here are the facts that are undisputable…
1. Prof. Hulk has impressive feats himself.. in fact as you point out he starts out stronger at a base level than regular hulk.
2. He wasn't reading a book he was in fact mad and angry and trying to put down Thanos. Thus he had already increased his strength to higher level anyways. How much higher.. no buddy can say.. What we can say is he was already mad and angry and beyond is base level which is already above normal hulk (who has great strength feats)
3. He had help from another low class 100 guy in the thing. We can call him class 90 for all I care.. The fact is, he's strong and have lifting feats himself..
4. Now, to say The Thing got in his way is just rabid speculation on your part.. there is no basis for thinking he did anything other than help.
5. Lastly and most importantly.. is the narration WITH the physical display… The words are very clear on the intent of the writer and what he was trying to show… Thanos words were.. "you call yourselves strong.. I am strength personified" Now what does that line mean to you? A 5th grader would read that and look at the artwork and clearly go.. Thanos is stronger than both of them combined and doesn't feel like they are strong. This is a stronger than normal hulk already more pissed and a class 90 guy..
6. In conclusion what does this tell us… even a stronger hulk than that would have to get really really mad for awhile to reach a level where Thanos is already at. Thanos proved to be a lot stronger than that hulk.. a hulk being stronger than that hulk would only bring him to that level.
Next point, you keep on talking about hulk and this I can get as strong as I need to get as if I didn't already agree to this point. Yes, everybody knows that is his powerset and he has that ability. What I'm arguing is, we've never seen this supposed infinite level of anger and infinite strength.. never, not one time. So it isn't applicable to use as an argument in vs. threads. They have to fight in character is one of our major rules… it isn't in character for hulk to get infinitly strong.. period end of story. So you telling me over and over again he can.. really has no bearing here. He won't and has never been shown to get that angry.
I'm glad you answered the question this time… The facts are.. hulk has got KO'd by A LOT less than what Thanos can bring to the table. This hulk was burned out by the sentry.. Thanos can bring a lot more pain than the sentry can. To say nothing of the fact that we've never seen Thanos KO'd via blunt force strikes.. Thus, it's far more likely hulk would go down before Thanos.
Now onto this fight…. I feel Thanos would put down many of these guys in very little time… I feel like WW would be about 2 shot or 3 shot at the very most. Superman… slightly more… Thor slightly less than supes but more than WW. Those are with generic Thanos blasts or punches… If he really amps himself and puts more into it.. I see no reason why these guys aren't one shot. Lets remember the impressive energy output displays he has against Galactus, against quasar construct, breaking out the in-betweener to name a few. For God's sake the weakest version of Thanos one shot and killed a high herald in Warlock. One shot kill. A few omni directional blast and it's really game over for this team. To say nothing of the fact that he has his shields which he can fire from and can take a lot a lot from these guys before going down. This is totally not even talking about DS and what he can bring to the table. To me, it's team 1 all day everyday and twice on sunday.
Originally posted by StoicWrong, you never see any gaping wound or getting ripped open at all in Infinity Gauntlet, you must be talking about the non cannon JLA/Avengers cross over, Logan never struggled to cut him open, his first and every strike opened up Hulk.
[B]He was having trouble cutting him up, which is why he made the statement in the first place. Thanos however was ripped open like a hot knife through butter. The wound was gaping.
It was his footfall that caused the destruction.It was both as the art shows, everything was getting wrecked and weakand before he took a step.
WW Hulk did not pour it on until the end of the arc. None of the characters that you mentioned would have been able to withstand the might that he was letting loose at the end of issue 5.All this is your speculation, he clearly was mad for each fight against Juggs,Zomstrange and Sentry, physically giving it everthing without the aid of gamma radition pouring out all over the place. Without the luck and cis Hulk wouldnt have done so well.If WW Hulk used all of the power at his disposal, the arc would have been over in one book instead of five, with cross over issues in between. Marketting is a real thing in that industry.
@ Carver
Just notice your statement about Pak saying Thanos wouldnt beat WWH, thats a lie he was asked the question "Would WWH beat the likes of Mangog or Thanos, he replied "no mortal walking the earth would stand a chance against that Hulk.
Also Marvel Editor said Thanos would have been able to beat WWH , go to his forumspring page to read it.
Thanos' words were mere bravado (I am strength personified) and anyone can run out into the street and rant the same words, but the fact is, that neither of them has ever had a full out war in a comic.
How in the world did Professor Hulk ever become the center of this debate? It might as well be a completely different character. Wonder Man even stalemated with Professor Hulk, and Savage Hulk would have torn Simon's head off. The current Hulk is even more powerful than that. You seem to keep ignoring that Professor Hulk could not increase to the same extent that any other Hulk could, because his strength was held in check by Banner's reluctance to go wild.
As far as the Nexus of realities go, you can run with your opinion, and I'll go with mine. Just remember that what was happening to Thanos while traveling through the Nexus was happening in abstract. Most of it was his mind that was being messed with. Hence why he mentions that the Nexus was attempting to dichotomize him. You do know what the term dichotomy means right? It's a universal concept, like love, hate, pleasure, pain, life, death... and so on etc. You can trust me on this or not, but what Thanos was going through was metaphysical stress. In other word the forces that he went through was messing with his head. It's like dying in a dream, and then dying in real life.
The reason that we have not seen this infinite strength is because he has to yet run into something infinitely improbable for him to lift, as far as comics history goes though, he has yet to meet a weight that he has not been able to lift. Thanos however has never lifted anything on panel to say that he is even in the same ballpark as WW Hulk in term of physical strength, all we can go with is a slap, and "I am strength Personified"!!! Which doesn't cut it for me.
This KO theory of yours is full of holes. The Hulk has had so many more appearances than Thanos, so it goes without saying that he would have been KO'd more times than Thanos. Hell Galactus has been KO'd more times than Thanos, does this somehow translate to Thanos being more durable than Galen as well? No one can truly tell how powerful the Sentry was in his battle with the Hulk, or if he would have been able to beat Thanos as well, but the Hulk won his fight with a guy that previously smiled at Terrax's best, crushed his hand, and snapped his cosmic axe like a twig, which was at one time thought to be indestructible. Using Sentry to somehow make Thanos look better is a bad idea when we have no idea what level he was operating on.
You're making it seem like these guys are going to stand there and allow Thanos to hit them, this is wrong, these guys could grab Darkseid and throw him into deep space, hold Thanos down and beat the mess out of him. Thanos while enraged was restrained in one of the Infinity arcs, I forget which, but he and the Silver Surfer were about to beat the hell out of each other, and they were both easily restrained. Thanos is not the Juggernaut. Nor are his shields on the same level as Cains, he can be hurt. He can be KO'd. Team 2 is too much for these guys.
Come on Stoic you need to at least be more reasonable if we are going to continue this debate. You keep on leaving out key points that make all the difference in the world. This wasn't just using bravado and words without backing it up, he also did so physically. You forget, the slap has nothing to do with that statement. The key thing is him OVERPOWERING The Hulk and The Thing at the same time. The attacked him he overpowered them PHYSICALLY while saying "you call yourselves strong, I am strength personified" That isn't just mere bravado.. The is action backing up his bravado. The writer was clearly showing that these two strong bricks with good lifting feats to their credit.. were pissed (hulk thus already growing in strength) and Thanos was still stronger than them both combined. What does this tell us.. That even if WWH is stronger (I agree) he then comes close to matching a Thanos that already proved to be a lot stronger than Prof Hulk and The Thing combined.
Again, you're totally and completely not understanding the nexus of realities scene. I'm sure it was also effecting his mind as it was effecting everything.. However, it wasn't mainly his mind in the least. If that was the case the typical and easiest way to show that is Thanos slumped over in pain holding his head. That and narration saying… this is effecting only his mind. However, that ISN'T CLOSE to what we see is it.. What we see is his BODY melting… him healing… body melting some more… healing… etc etc. That is what we see.. We see his BODY PHYSICALLY melting away and him healing. Are you somehow under the impression that Thanos doesn't have a healing factor? A good one at that?
Okay so concession accepted on it never being shown and that we can't use that as a viable tactic for any hulk. They have to fight in character.. period. It's not in character for him to ever even get a little close to that level…not even close at all. Thus, that argument doesn't fly at all.. why it happens.. I already said why it happens and it's for the reaons you stated as well. Cool. The fact is, it has never happened and thus it's not a valid argument to use for the Hulk actually getting to that level.
The KO theory isn't full of holes actually.. Galactus has been KO'd before but not very many times at all. Only a couple times.. Hulk has been KO'd a lot a lot more times. Period. Not to mention when Galactus has been KO'd it's from really really powerful beings with exponentially more power than what Hulk has been KO'd by. You see Hulk has been KO'd by people that Thanos laughs off like an annoying flee. That is the difference here… Hulk gets KO'd by people who just tickle Thanos. Thus, the point stands, if anybody is getting KO'd by blunt force trauma it's The Hulk not Thanos.
No version of sentry is as strong as Thanos… Period.. None. . Him burning out WWH proves that Thanos would do much worse to him.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Come on Stoic you need to at least be more reasonable if we are going to continue this debate. You keep on leaving out key points that make all the difference in the world. This wasn't just using bravado and words without backing it up, he also did so physically. You forget, the slap has nothing to do with that statement. The key thing is him OVERPOWERING The Hulk and The Thing at the same time. The attacked him he overpowered them PHYSICALLY while saying "you call yourselves strong, I am strength personified" That isn't just mere bravado.. The is action backing up his bravado. The writer was clearly showing that these two strong bricks with good lifting feats to their credit.. were pissed (hulk thus already growing in strength) and Thanos was still stronger than them both combined. What does this tell us.. That even if WWH is stronger (I agree) he then comes close to matching a Thanos that already proved to be a lot stronger than Prof Hulk and The Thing combined.Again, you're totally and completely not understanding the nexus of realities scene. I'm sure it was also effecting his mind as it was effecting everything.. However, it wasn't mainly his mind in the least. If that was the case the typical and easiest way to show that is Thanos slumped over in pain holding his head. That and narration saying… this is effecting only his mind. However, that ISN'T CLOSE to what we see is it.. What we see is his BODY melting… him healing… body melting some more… healing… etc etc. That is what we see.. We see his BODY PHYSICALLY melting away and him healing. Are you somehow under the impression that Thanos doesn't have a healing factor? A good one at that?
Okay so concession accepted on it never being shown and that we can't use that as a viable tactic for any hulk. They have to fight in character.. period. It's not in character for him to ever even get a little close to that level…not even close at all. Thus, that argument doesn't fly at all.. why it happens.. I already said why it happens and it's for the reaons you stated as well. Cool. The fact is, it has never happened and thus it's not a valid argument to use for the Hulk actually getting to that level.
The KO theory isn't full of holes actually.. Galactus has been KO'd before but not very many times at all. Only a couple times.. Hulk has been KO'd a lot a lot more times. Period. Not to mention when Galactus has been KO'd it's from really really powerful beings with exponentially more power than what Hulk has been KO'd by. You see Hulk has been KO'd by people that Thanos laughs off like an annoying flee. That is the difference here… Hulk gets KO'd by people who just tickle Thanos. Thus, the point stands, if anybody is getting KO'd by blunt force trauma it's The Hulk not Thanos.No version of sentry is as strong as Thanos… Period.. None. . Him burning out WWH proves that Thanos would do much worse to him.
Listen when you are a class 100+ character, how hard would it actually be to slap a 1,200 pound character across the room? How hard would it be to grab two guys, one weighing 570 pound, and the other weighing 1,200 pounds and make them head butt each other? My answer is not very hard at all. The Thing is nothing, I've seen Thanos grab Ben, and spin him around with one arm. He can one shot the Thing. Did you honestly see Thanos KO the Hulk without the use of the IG? I did not, if you or anyone else saw this could you please post it. Thanos and the Hulk have never once had a one vs one fight.
Let's say that Thanos fought the current Hulk, and decided not to use his shields or to bfr him. Just a straight up slug it out, and Thanos could use his plasma punches to amp the damage. I see the both of them having a decent fight.. I could see Thanos taking some, but I see the hulk taking some as well. Many people refuse to see how hard it really is to actually put the Hulk down. When he fought the Sentry he got chipped up, but in the end it was Sentry with black eyes, and bloody face, while the Hulk was ready for a few more rounds.
The Nexus of reality: Thanos specifically said, that the forces of the Nexus was trying to Dichotomize him. This means that it was hitting him on an abstract level, a metaphysical level. Look up the word Dichotomy, and tell me what you understand in its definition. If Thanos did not use that word, I would agree that it was a purely physical experience. It wasn't, it was a mental experience, that had physical ramifications. Ron Lim attempted to keep up with the writer, but unfortunately he fell short, as many artist would, if tasked with graphically illustrating the principles of an epistemological dichotomy, or dichotomies.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass on this one, but if you don't believe me speak to a Psyche Professor, but just be prepared for a mind jarring experience... this is pretty much what Thanos went through when travelling to the Nexus (A mind jarring experience).
Now what we saw was Thanos sitting there, while understanding the concept or concepts of what it would be like to be picked apart by one dichotomy, and put back together by another, only to be picked apart by the last one. Which as he said, a lesser being (in the mind) would have been destroyed.
This is of course unless you are under the belief that Thanos is so durable that he could withstand reality warps. Not even Galactus is above reality. I feel as if my effort to explain the concept to you may be lost, so feel free to run with your understanding, and I'll go with what I read in a book on the very complex subject of dichotomies, and the human psyche. Just to tell you, it was not Thanos that healed himself, as he was never injured physically, it was... awww man just forget it, it would take far too long to explain, and I have to study like a madman.
Galactus has been KO'd more times than Thanos has. It's all about plot, and if Thanos was in his own ongoing series that had over 500 appearances of him, you can bet your bottom dollar that his KO rate would climb to astronomical levels. Let me put it to you this way, a non jobbing Hulk would not be one shotted by Thanos even if he used plasma punches on him, it would hurt, even bust him open, but the Hulk would heal, and give Thanos the business as well. like I said above, I believe that Thanos could take a few victories, but on the same token, I can also see the Hulk taking a few. However, numbers are against Thanos in this thread, and none of these characters are on the same level as the Thing.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Using Thanos getting restrained by Dumb Drax as bad show of strength is pooor, as it isnt a bad a WWH going beserk on Miek and getting restrained by Korg, Dumb Drax>>>>>>Korg.
You may have somehow missed the point of the Hulk not being a killer, or having tendancies that drifted towards him killing a close friend. Miek, got a beating, this is all that he got. Just remember that Miek was also a very strong character, and could take a certain amount of abuse. Could Banner have killed him if he wanted to? Of course, but it's not in his character to do that.
As for restraining Thanos, I would like to see the same guys that restrained Thanos attempt to restrain the Hulk when he went ape shit on Onslaught. If the Hulk fought Thanos and went completely wild on him, Thanos would be in for the fight of his life, or he would have to teleport the Hulk (BFR) to places unknown.