Originally posted by darthgoober
Alternate timelines ARE alternate realities(and the Microverse and Negaverse arguably qualify as well).
No try again. He has traveled through the time stream, and reached one of many possible futures that steam from reality 616. He has yet to travel into reality with its own designated timeline. Otherwise there would be no point in Surfer riding the Cosmic Swell to reach Oclin’s reality.
Originally posted by "Id"
No try again. He has traveled through the time stream, and reached one of many possible futures that steam from reality 616. He has yet to travel into reality with its own designated timeline. Otherwise there would be no point in Surfer riding the Cosmic Swell to reach Oclin’s reality.
Again the Cosmic Swell thing wasn't just another universe it was outside the Marvel multiverse/omniverse, that's the whole reason the Watcher didn't know what was over there. If you're looking for an indication that Surfer CAN'T travel to alternate universes, you're going to have to do better than a place that even the Watchers(you know the guys who go everywhere) have never been able to reach safely/reliably.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah so he traveled to(and from) an alternate reality/timeline, that's what I said...Again the Cosmic Swell thing wasn't just another universe it was outside the Marvel multiverse/omniverse, that's the whole reason the Watcher didn't know what was over there. If you're looking for an indication that Surfer CAN'T travel to alternate universes, you're going to have to do better than a place that even the Watchers(you know the guys who go everywhere) have never been able to reach safely/reliably.
Nate can pluck him in a reality that does not steam from 616. As in a reality that’s unreachable by simply transverseing through the time stream.
And no the Watcher never stated the Cosmic Swell resides outside the Omniverse. It was simply a cosmic anomaly, in the form of a spatial rift due to alternate realities cascading over each other. In this specific case, Oclin reality cascading with reality 616 forming the Cosmic Swell. The Watchers concern is not so much what was over there, but if anyone dared to travel, and survive the ordeal.
Could Surfer reach Oclin Alternate reality? Without the cosmic swell, apparently not. Otherwise Surfer would have reached Oclin reality under his own power.
Originally posted by "Id"
ugghNate can pluck him in a reality that does not steam from 616. As in a reality that’s unreachable by simply transverseing through the time stream.
And no the Watcher never stated the Cosmic Swell resides outside the Omniverse. It was simply a cosmic anomaly, in the form of a spatial rift due to alternate realities cascading over each other. In this specific case, Oclin reality cascading with reality 616 forming the Cosmic Swell. The Watchers concern is not so much what was over there, but if anyone dared to travel, and survive the ordeal.
Could Surfer reach Oclin Alternate reality? Without the cosmic swell, apparently not. Otherwise Surfer would have reached Oclin reality under his own power.
And the Watcher didn't have to come out and say that it was outside the Marvel multiverse/omniverse specifically because there are Watchers watching every universe within the Marvel multiverse but the only one there was one that was trying to find out what was on the other side of the cosmic swell. The fact that embodiement of the universe was the Unilord rather than Eternity pretty much proves it too...
Of course he couldn't reach Oclin's reality under his own power, even the Watchers couldn't. You're going to need a bit more to indicate that Surfer's unable to traverse alternate universes(you know since he's done it and all)...
Originally posted by "Id"
Awwww Shit, I didn't even know we had one here.
Originally posted by darthgooberCome on now Microverse is a universe within a Universe accessible via shrinking to extremely small levels. What do you mean by Negaverse…the Negative Zone?
You mean like the Microverse or Negaverse?And the Watcher didn't have to come out and say that it was outside the Marvel multiverse/omniverse specifically because there are Watchers watching every universe within the Marvel multiverse but the only one there was one that was trying to find out what was on the other side of the cosmic swell. The fact that embodiement of the universe was the Unilord rather than Eternity pretty much proves it too...
Of course he couldn't reach Oclin's reality under his own power, even the Watchers couldn't. You're going to need a bit more to indicate that Surfer's unable to traverse alternate universes(you know since he's done it and all)...
There is no reason to appoint that Oclin reality takes place outside the Omniverse. Again the Watchers concern is not if the Cosmic Swell redirects you to Alternate Reality. Its safely transversing, and surviving the ordeal. I mean really it was already stated that the Unilord absorbed that known universe, that’s how he became the embodiment of that universe.
I mean really, has Norrin ever reached an alternate reality outside of traveling through the time stream?
Originally posted by "Id"
Come on now Microverse is a universe within a Universe accessible via shrinking to extremely small levels. What do you mean by Negaverse…the Negative Zone?There is no reason to appoint that Oclin reality takes place outside the Omniverse. Again the Watchers concern is not if the Cosmic Swell redirects you to Alternate Reality. Its safely transversing, and surviving the how ordeal. I mean really it was already stated that the Unilord absorbed that known universe, that’s how he became the embodiment of that universe.
I mean really, has Norrin ever reached an alternate reality outside of traveling through the time stream?
Right a universe within a universe, hence an alternate universe. Yeah I meant Negative Zone, I was watching Sailor Moon earlier 😆 .
Sure there is, because we know Watchers exist in every universe inside of the Marvel Multiverse. And the Watchers DID want to know what was over there, that's why one of them tried to go see. I mean we're talking about Watchers here, they want to know what's going on EVERYWHERE.
Yeah, the microverse is one such example.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Right a universe within a universe, hence an alternate universe. Yeah I meant Negative Zone, I was watching Sailor Moon earlier 😆 .Sure there is, because we know Watchers exist in every universe inside of the Marvel Multiverse. And the Watchers DID want to know what was over there, that's why one of them tried to go see. I mean we're talking about Watchers here, they want to know what's going on EVERYWHERE.
Yeah, the microverse is one such example.
Look he can shrink all he wants, that wont help him escape from say Brilliant City, if Nate decides to toss him there.
Oclin’s reality takes place within the Marvel Multivese, for you know recognizing central characters resembling its 616 counterparts. All you have to do to back up your claim, is to provide evidence that Surfer has reached an alternate reality outside via time travel. I emphasize it, since time traveling is not going to help Surfer escape Brilliant City, and return to the battlefield. After all Brilliant City is not a reality accessible via shrinking/time traveling.
Sailor Moon… 🙁
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yeah but... Mystique was equipped with psychic baffles that blocked Nate's tp completely.
That’s only because Nate was not trying to burn through them. I don’t think he is bluffing, he previously swept through the psy disruptors, and read Sinisters thoughts at the age of like 9 or something.
On what level?? where? Was it reliant on them being lower than SS in psychic ability or was it energy manip. Honestly surfer being able to energy Manip anyone should make him theoretically unbeatable by forum rules. Hell as I've said before he breaks conservation of energy and matter laws by maniping his energy higher than what he starts with.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Balancing out his "low showings" with his "high showings" makes it arguable that his tp would overwhelm Surfer. That's without taking into account Surfer's abilities, much less his personal resistance. He's completely shut off psionics in an area of effect.
Its not meant to balance high/low showings, just pointing out Nate’s comment regarding Mystiques psi-blockers, and why. If you want to be fair, and reference Surfer shutting off psi in an area of effect. Psi Disruptors where tossed in Providence, showing little to no effect on Cable. As if the Sinister feat was not enough, that’s another variable that needs to be factored in.
^ Cable got wrecked by Surfer at the peak of his powers... anyway:
Originally posted by Uriel005Was looking for the scan. Turns out the instance I was thinking of was Surfer just negated the negation of psionics in an area of effect that kept the thing psychically hidden from Galactus.
On what level?? where? Was it reliant on them being lower than SS in psychic ability or was it energy manip. Honestly surfer being able to energy Manip anyone should make him theoretically unbeatable by forum rules. Hell as I've said before he breaks conservation of energy and matter laws by maniping his energy higher than what he starts with.
Oh and If anyone is interested, I just got a hold of Counter X volume 3. It’s a paper back reprinting X-Man 63-70. In it you will find authors (Warren Ellis) notes regarding X-Man. I will update the respect thread by typing down his notes, since they are interesting, and answers some lingering questions. And if possible post scans. HOORRAAA. biscuits