To me, the ending was so bad, I'm starting to not care if the ending is changed to
Spoiler:haermm
your love interest pulling a Christopher Reeve's Superman and spinning not the Earth but the whole galaxy, reversing time so Shepard doesn't die and saves him/her but not before giving the Catalyst the finger and ordering your fleet to attack the Citadel but not before Joker deciding not to wuss out and actually pick the Commander up (or beam him/her up seeing as how your squadmates are somehow on the Normandy all of a sudden) so that way when that's gone, so will the Catalyst and the Reapers will automcatically shut down and get destroyed. Days later, a party is thrown in your honor with Garrus singing, Tali and the Quarian admirals playing pin the tail on the Varren with their Geth friends, James hitting on Ashley only to get a kick to the quad, Joker break dancing as his vroliks syndrome is cured by SPACE MAGIC, and Legion coming back and doing the robot. But wait, what are the choices you ask? Well you must decide which kind of pizza you want delivered and if you pick the wrong one, Krogan children Eve gave birth to will throw a bloodrage and if you pick the right one, everyone's happy and EDI tells Joker she's pregnant. THE END!
Originally posted by Nemesis X😆
To me, the ending was so bad, I'm starting to not care if the ending is changed toSpoiler:haermm
your love interest pulling a Christopher Reeve's Superman and spinning not the Earth but the whole galaxy, reversing time so Shepard doesn't die and saves him/her but not before giving the Catalyst the finger and ordering your fleet to attack the Citadel but not before Joker deciding not to wuss out and actually pick the Commander up (or beam him/her up seeing as how your squadmates are somehow on the Normandy all of a sudden) so that way when that's gone, so will the Catalyst and the Reapers will automcatically shut down and get destroyed. Days later, a party is thrown in your honor with Garrus singing, Tali and the Quarian admirals playing pin the tail on the Varren with their Geth friends, James hitting on Ashley only to get a kick to the quad, Joker break dancing as his vroliks syndrome is cured by SPACE MAGIC, and Legion coming back and doing the robot. But wait, what are the choices you ask? Well you must decide which kind of pizza you want delivered and if you pick the wrong one, Krogan children Eve gave birth to will throw a bloodrage and if you pick the right one, everyone's happy and EDI tells Joker she's pregnant. THE END!
Originally posted by Morridini
Right I see a pattern here that explains why my opinion differs from the majority of you. You mention that BioWare didn't deliver what they promised, that they handled the controversy poorly etc.I have however had a complete media blackout of ME2 and ME3 ever since I finished ME in 2007. I've seen no trailers for ME3, not read anything, been promised anything. Then post release I only heard "ending suxxors!!", and nothing else, no reviews or anything.
I came into this game not knowing, nor expecting, anything. And I am glad for what I got.
Now if what you say is true, that BioWare said the choices would affect the ending etc, then I completely understand what you're on about. Because that clearly did not happen.
The choices you make do affect the ending, very much so. More than most realize. The choices you make affect
Spoiler:
whether your team is dead or alive at the end, and whether earth is completely destroyed or not. Also each of the three choices you make at the end has completely different and very important implications and consequences for the future of the universe.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That isn't a choice, thats just you EMS score. The only choice you make is which color ending you want. Sure theres implications for consequences, but since don't see them and Bioware has said they don't want to do anything post-ME3, who cares.
Your EMS score is based on the choices you've made throughout the entire game and series - what missions you do, who to befriend, who to kill, etc. Those are all choices.
Also, you are lying, Bioware never said that they don't want to do anything post-ME3. They've hinted at the exact opposite.
But even if that were to be true and no further games in the ME universe were to take place, your comment of 'who cares' is telling. It's a stark contrast to the popular yet stupid argument among those who dislike the ending, the one where they insist that people who enjoyed the ending aren't as invested in the universe. You'd think the people who are supposedly most invested in the universe wouldn't say "who cares" at implications affecting said universe in a big way, even if it isn't directly shown. Those most invested would deeply care about such implications because they're the ones who are most likely to think about the future of the universe and what's to come, and create fan fiction and use their imagination to have further adventures there.
Originally posted by BackFire
Your EMS score is based on the choices you've made throughout the entire game and series - what missions you do, who to befriend, who to kill, etc. Those are all choices.
But none of them to do with the ending. When it comes down to it, its just a number, which is almost entirely impossible to get invested in so that it makes you feel like your choices matter. Furthermore, the fact is, is that pretty much no matter what choice you make, you can still get pretty much the same amount of EMS in the end as long as you do the side-missions and play the multiplayer.
Originally posted by BackFire
Also, you are lying, Bioware never said that they don't want to do anything post-ME3. They've hinted at the exact opposite.
'While there will definitely be more Mass Effect games and other stories told in the future, Commander Shepard's story has concluded. Hudson isn't sure where the series goes next but he's pretty confident that he never wants to tell any stories that take place in a post-Shepard era. "Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after," he suggests.'
Originally posted by BackFire
But even if that were to be true and no further games in the ME universe were to take place, your comment of 'who cares' is telling. It's a stark contrast to the popular yet stupid argument among those who dislike the ending, the one where they insist that people who enjoyed the ending aren't as invested in the universe. You'd think the people who are supposedly most invested in the universe wouldn't say "who cares" at implications affecting said universe in a big way, even if it isn't directly shown. Those most invested would deeply care about such implications because they're the ones who are most likely to think about the future of the universe and what's to come, and create fan fiction and use their imagination to have further adventures there.
Well if you look back a single page you'll see that I have indeed thought about what occurs after the ending. It just so happens that this has led me to conclude that
Spoiler:
nearly everyone most likely dies. The fact is, is that after the ending the galaxy is wreaked. Instead of going for 'bittersweet' it just becomes 'bitter', its far too bleak to encourage speculation.
However, even if I hadn't done that, the fact remains that the story lacks closure. It was intentionally designed this way by the writers Mac Walters and Casey Hudson in order to encourage *spoilers*lots of speculation from everyone. In some cases an ambiguous ending is fine, but considering the massive questions raised by the ending combined with the very bleak tone combined again with the lack of anything occuring post-ME3 this is just incredibly unsatisfying.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But none of them to do with the ending. When it comes down to it, its just a number, which is almost entirely impossible to get invested in so that it makes you feel like your choices matter. Furthermore, the fact is, is that pretty much no matter what choice you make, you can still get pretty much the same amount of EMS in the end as long as you do the side-missions and play the multiplayer.
How is
Spoiler:not to do with the ending?
your team dying and earth being destroyed
Spoiler:It's not impossible to get invested in your EMS, it was simply a way of streamlining the process by showing the player the kind of data that goes on behind the scenes so that you know when to head back for earth. It simply is so the player doesn't have to guess as to whether or not he's prepared to engage in the final battle. It's another form of EXP, when you think about it. And it's also wrong to say that you get the same amount of EMS no matter what. Multiplayer offering most of what you need is true, but most didn't do that before completing the game so it's not relevant. A lot of people on their first playthrough didn't get the EMS needed to get the most positive ending. And it's possible, based on your decisions and choices in the previous games, that you are unable to get an ending where
Saving earth is the goal of the entire game, whether you succeed or not is obviously important and very much has to do with the ending
Spoiler:.
earth is saved
Originally posted by Nephthys
'While there will definitely be more Mass Effect games and other stories told in the future, Commander Shepard's story has concluded. Hudson isn't sure where the series goes next but [b]he's pretty confident that he never wants to tell any stories that take place in a post-Shepard era. "Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after," he suggests.'[/B]
Source please. This directly flies in the face of their implications that there would be games taking place after ME3 by saying to hang on to your ME3 game saves. If true then I apologize for saying you were lying. Though I still don't buy it, the same thing was said after Halo 3 came out. When it comes to ideas of future titles developers are notoriously flaky.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well if you look back a single page you'll see that I have indeed thought about what occurs after the ending. It just so happens that this has led me to conclude thatSpoiler:
nearly everyone most likely dies. The fact is, is that after the ending the galaxy is wreaked. Instead of going for 'bittersweet' it just becomes 'bitter', its far too bleak to encourage speculation.However, even if I hadn't done that, the fact remains that the story lacks closure. It was intentionally designed this way by the writers Mac Walters and Casey Hudson in order to encourage *spoilers*lots of speculation from everyone. In some cases an ambiguous ending is fine, but considering the massive questions raised by the ending combined with the very bleak tone this is just incredibly unsatisfying.
It is blind assumption that
Spoiler:
the galaxy is wrecked. If you choose to believe that so be it, it is not the only reasonable outcome, though. The fact is there will be Reaper tech littering the entire galaxy and that tech could probably be used to reconstruct the mass relays. It's reasonable to think that the Reapers, when constructing the Mass Relays, created a special fall back method of destroying the relays that wouldn't cause the destruction of all life in the galaxy. Simply because galactic life is unaware of that possibility doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The one destroyed in Arrival was destroyed with a meteor, the ones destroyed in ME3 were destroyed through means beyond the comprehension of the life forms in the galaxy. There's no reason to think that the outcome of both explosions would be identical.
As far as the other commonly raised questions about the ending, most can be easily and logically explained simply by applying the rule of Occam's Razor.
Originally posted by BackFire
How isSpoiler:not to do with the ending?
your team dying and earth being destroyedSpoiler:
Saving earth is the goal of the entire game, whether you succeed or not is obviously important and very much has to do with the ending
None of it directly has anything to do with the ending.
Originally posted by BackFireSpoiler:
It's not impossible to get invested in your EMS, it was simply a way of streamlining the process by showing the player the kind of data that goes on behind the scenes so that you know when to head back for earth.
Its just a statistic. A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic. Basically, yes, is it extremely difficult to become emotionally involved with a statistic.
Spoiler:
Also the fact is that its an entirely invisible number threshold that decides whether or not you can save Earth. So you don't know when its time to go save Earth actually.
Originally posted by BackFireSpoiler:
It simply is so the player doesn't have to guess as to whether or not he's prepared to engage in the final battle. It's another form of EXP, when you think about it. And it's also wrong to say that you get the same amount of EMS no matter what.
See above.
Originally posted by BackFire
Multiplayer offering most of what you need is true, but most didn't do that before completing the game so it's not relevant. A lot of people on their first playthrough didn't get the EMS needed to get the most positive ending.
You don't think its relevant that people can't actually get the best ending without playing the multiplayer?
Originally posted by BackFire
And it's possible, based on your decisions and choices in the previous games, that you are unable to get an ending whereSpoiler:.
earth is saved
I haven't done a tally, but I'm pretty sure that since you can get the best ending without importing this is false.
Originally posted by BackFire
Source please. This directly flies in the face of their implications that there would be games taking place after ME3 by saying to hang on to your ME3 game saves. If true then I apologize for saying you were lying. Though I still don't buy it, the same thing was said after Halo 3 came out. When it comes to ideas of future titles developers are notoriously flaky.
Geoff Keighley's 'The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3'. You can download it for Ipad or PC/Mac.
Originally posted by BackFire
It is blind assumption thatSpoiler:
the galaxy is wrecked. If you choose to believe that so be it, it is not the only reasonable outcome, though. The fact is there will be Reaper tech littering the entire galaxy and that tech could probably be used to reconstruct the mass relays.
1.
Spoiler:
If they can just be rebuilt then what was the point in blowing them up in the first place?
2.
Spoiler:
How can they rebuild them fast enough to avoid starvation?
3.
Spoiler:
How can they rebuild them in the first place if they're still stuck in the Sol system?
4.
Spoiler:
If they're not stuck in the Sol system then how do they make it back to their home systmes given the lack of fuel, water and food and the inefficiency of FTL travel?
Originally posted by BackFireSpoiler:
It's reasonable to think that the Reapers, when constructing the Mass Relays, created a special fall back method of destroying the relays that wouldn't cause the destruction of all life in the galaxy. Simply because galactic life is unaware of that possibility doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Is there anything to suggest this at all or are you just guessing?
Originally posted by BackFire
Spoiler:
The one destroyed in Arrival was destroyed with a meteor, the ones destroyed in ME3 were destroyed through means beyond the comprehension of the life forms in the galaxy. There's no reason to think that the outcome of both explosions would be identical.As far as the other commonly raised questions about the ending, most can be easily and logically explained simply by applying the rule of Occam's Razor.
Spoiler:
Theres no reason to suggest they wouldn't. After-all, the shockwave destroys the Normandy, so logically it would harm everything else as well.
Originally posted by Nephthys
None of it directly has anything to do with the ending.
It does. Your argument makes no sense. It alters the ending cinematic by
Spoiler:. You are provably and factually wrong, here.
showing earth being destroyed and whether or not you see your squad emerge from the Normandy after crash landing
Originally posted by Nephthys Its just a statistic. A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic. Basically, yes, is it extremely difficult to become emotionally involved with a statistic.Spoiler:
Also the fact is that its an entirely invisible number threshold that decides whether or not you can save Earth. So you don't know when its time to go save Earth actually.
[/B]
It's a statistic based very largely on the interpersonal choices and decisions made by you throughout the game. Whether the
Spoiler:
geth are saved, whether you recruit all of the ME2 squadmembers to help you or let them all die, whether conrad verner is even in your games, whether the krogan are liberated or forever cursed. It all matters, and all those choices are what largely influence the EMS. You are purposefully misrepresenting it. It is directly based on every single choice you make throughout the entire series.Originally posted by Nephthys You don't think its relevant that people can't actually get the best ending without playing the multiplayer?[/B]That's not what I said. That's not what the previous discussion was about. Stop trying to create red herrings. Respond to what I said.
Originally posted by Nephthys I haven't done a tally, but I'm pretty sure that since you can get the best ending without importing this is false.[/B]Only if you Max out through multiplayer, which again, most did not do prior to beating the game.
Originally posted by Nephthys Geoff Keighley's 'The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3'. You can download it for Ipad or PC/Mac.[/B]Bioware said that you should take what you hear from that cast with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by Nephthys 1. [spoiler]If they can just be rebuilt then what was the point in blowing them up in the first place?2.
Spoiler:
How can they rebuild them fast enough to avoid starvation?3.
Spoiler:
How can they rebuild them in the first place if they're still stuck in the Sol system?4.
Spoiler:[/B]
If they're not stuck in the Sol system then how do they make it back to their home systmes given the lack of fuel, water and food and the inefficiency of FTL travel?
1. The point was for dramatic effect.
2.
Spoiler:
Why do you assume that they will starve? FTL drives can allow them to fly very far without the Mass Relays, even out of the Sol System. This was mentioned in the QA someone did with Patrick Weeves at PAX a few weeks ago."-Will long-distance superluminal travel still be possible post-Ending? (will Tali or Wrex or Garrus see their homeworlds again? Will everyone starve?)
Galactic civilization will rebuild. The mass relays were not necessary for interstellar flight. Remember, what does it say in the Codex about the speed of ships? That's right, 12 lightyears per (day? hour? minute?). And that's only the cruising speed, not the maximum speed.
People have never needed to research basic FTL improvements before because they have mass relays. With the relays gone, new technology will increase that speed. Additionally, the element zero cores of the dead/controlled Reapers can be used to improve FTL drives. Starflight will continue using conventional FTL."
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11154234/1
3. See Above, they are not
Spoiler:.
stuck in the Sol System
4.
Spoiler:
Simply because the war fleet is in the Sol System doesn't mean the entire civilization is. They didn't bring their entire populace to fight the reapers, most would have stayed behind on their homeworld.
Originally posted by Nephthys Is there anything to suggest this at all or are you just guessing?[/B]
Seeing as the ultimate goal of the reapers
Spoiler:
are to keep all life from being destroyed it makes no sense to assume that when they initiate the implosion of the Mass Relays that it will cause all life to be destroyed in the same manner as if an Astroid hit each one of them. It is simply illogical to think that. This is also mentioned in the QA I posted above.
Originally posted by NephthysSpoiler:[/B]
Theres no reason to suggest they wouldn't. After-all, the shockwave destroys the Normandy, so logically it would harm everything else as well.
Spoiler:
The shockwave only harmed the normandy because it was in the process of going through the Mass Relay and was hit by the pulse that was being used to destroy each Mass Relay. It was not from the resulting explosion.
Best let him enjoy the ending. No need to try and ruin it for him. If he enjoyed it, let him. Debating him to an inevitable point wherein he will start disliking the ending would only mean that there is more person out there that feels like he just gave $60 and spent 100 or so hours only to have some shmuck give him the finger at the end.
I would actually be happier if I was in his place.
Originally posted by BackFire
It does. Your argument makes no sense. It alters the ending cinematic bySpoiler:. You are provably and factually wrong, here.
showing earth being destroyed and whether or not you see your squad emerge from the Normandy after crash landing
I think what Nephthys wants is something along the lines of
Spoiler:
a race or character you saved at some point in the game coming forward and impacting something, like the geth showing up and pulling a squadmember out from under rubble, or the rachni popping in to have some effect on how things end. Not, hey, if you got this number high enough, people will walk out of a ship at the end, and if you didn't, they wont." Technically, yes, that is a "different" ending, and yes, technically it is based off of decisions you made. But come on, surely you can see how unsatisfying that would be. You have to admit, that for the most part, the endings are identical. The only differences in them are very small ones (which characters walk out of a ship, what color the explosion is etc etc). And none of those little changes are linked with your choices outside of how full your number is. The thing is, the way it is set up now, as long as two people have the same war asset numbers, they could have made COMPLETELY different choices to get that number, and still get the same ending as the other guy. That's the problem.
You are provably and factually wrong, here.
Nope!
Spoiler:
If we look at truth values for [Shep saved the Geth] and [Shep saved the Quarians] and then look at the various endings, the specific truth values do not affect the ending. Saving either one (i.e. making a decision) is not a necessary condition for the ending. Saving any given thing, for that matter, isn't a necessary condition for any specific ending. And that really wrankles my giblets.
Originally posted by Nephthys
What squadmates did you pick through the series? Any reasons why? Gameplay reasons? Role-playing reasons (people still do this right)?
I usually tried picking squad mates who might have an extra scene or dialog. Like bringing Liara with me when I went to confront her mother... Which was actually pretty cruel in retrospect. 😕
Originally posted by Zampanó
Nope!Spoiler:
If we look at truth values for [Shep saved the Geth] and [Shep saved the Quarians] and then look at the various endings, the specific truth values do not affect the ending. Saving either one (i.e. making a decision) is not a necessary condition for the ending. Saving any given thing, for that matter, isn't a necessary condition for any specific ending. And that really wrankles my giblets.
That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
