Win or lose, MANY TEA PARTIERS ARE INELIGEBLE TO HOLD OFFICE!

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know what the mob was thinking. All I know is there are people who want to kill Rand Paul (am I getting the name right?). If there were people who wanted to kill me, would be...?

This line of thinking is way over complicating the issue from my point of view.

ok, and if the woman made any indication that she was going to harm paul, I'm sure the majority of us would probably be ok with the crowd restraining her

like, right now, there are terrorists who want you, your mother, and your dog to die. This doesn't give you the right to forcibly keep muslims off the bus until they prove they aren't going to blow it up

assumption of innocence, you know, right in the constitution these tea-whatevers claim to want to follow

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The woman's Karma brought her to a place in her life were this happened. If she did not want this to happen, then she should have changed her mind, and not stepped into the mob. I think her Karma blinded her to the danger. Now, why did Rand Paul have such violent people around him. There is a possibility that all the death threats combined with the proximity to the election caused the mob to over react and vent their anger on this one person.

I've written papers about how Karma is, especially in the way it is practiced in rural India, pretty much the ultimate form of victim blame

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, and if the woman made any indication that she was going to harm paul, I'm sure the majority of us would probably be ok with the crowd restraining her

like, right now, there are terrorists who want you, your mother, and your dog to die. This doesn't give you the right to forcibly keep muslims off the bus until they prove they aren't going to blow it up

assumption of innocence, you know, right in the constitution these tea-whatevers claim to want to follow

I've written papers about how Karma is, especially in the way it is practiced in rural India, pretty much the ultimate form of victim blame

All mobs are the same. It does not matter if they are one party or the other. The idea that is happened because of the tea party is wrong. This happened because the woman decided to go to the wrong place and do the wrong thing.

Was it wrong? There is more then enough blame to go around.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is why I said it was irrelevant. The way you wanted to look at this was just wrong.

It's not really my fault that you can't form coherent arguments or write sentences that means what you want them to.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's not really my fault that you can't form coherent arguments or write sentences that means what you want them to.

I'm actually enjoying our debate. It just gets confusing with more then one person.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All mobs are the same. It does not matter if they are one party or the other. The idea that is happened because of the tea party is wrong.

Why are you harping on this when everyone here has acknowledged that point? Refuting an argument that isn't being made just makes you look childish.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This happened because the woman decided to go to the wrong place and do the wrong thing.

Was it wrong? There is more then enough blame to go around.

That's stupid. There are obviously levels of "wrongness". Acting like you might embarrass Rand Paul has a very low level of wrongness to it (in fact I would say there is nothing wrong with that at all). Beating a woman nearly to death has a very high level of wrongness to it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All mobs are the same. It does not matter if they are one party or the other. The idea that is happened because of the tea party is wrong. This happened because the woman decided to go to the wrong place and do the wrong thing.

Was it wrong? There is more then enough blame to go around.

stop politicizing the issue, we have gone to pains to say we think this is a matter of mob mentality, not of the tea-movement

an innocent individual was attacked by a mob of people for trying to make a political statement, and your response is, "well, she asked for it"

it is a protest version of "her dress was so short, of course she wanted it"

So if a scanty-dressed prostitute who's mongering her 'goods' get's raped, it's her Karma? Am I following this Karma business correctly?

Originally posted by inimalist
stop politicizing the issue, we have gone to pains to say we think this is a matter of mob mentality, not of the tea-movement

an innocent individual was attacked by a mob of people for trying to make a political statement, and your response is, "well, she asked for it"

it is a protest version of "her dress was so short, of course she wanted it"

Ok, I don't see it that way. It is completely a political matter, to me. Now that we know the disconnect, things will be better. I will talk about the political side, and you will talk about the mob side, and I will try to keep this in mind.

Originally posted by Robtard
So if a scanty-dressed prostitute who's mongering her 'goods' get's raped, it's her Karma? Am I following this Karma business correctly?

Rape has nothing to do with sex, and Karma has nothing to do with blame.

Maybe you should bump my old Karma thread, and ask there.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Rape has nothing to do with sex, and Karma has nothing to do with blame.

Maybe you should bump my old Karma thread, and ask there.

Rape has a lot to do with sex.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, I don't see it that way. It is completely a political matter, to me. Now that we know the disconnect, things will be better. I will talk about the political side, and you will talk about the mob side, and I will try to keep this in mind.

what political side? this isn't a political issue?

the only relevance with the political side seems to be in mitigating the responsibility of the mob, as if it is ok because there is some political dimension

Originally posted by inimalist
what political side? this isn't a political issue?

the only relevance with the political side seems to be in mitigating the responsibility of the mob, as if it is ok because there is some political dimension

I am not talking about the mob. I don't want to talk about mob dynamics.

thats my point, you are doing whatever mental cartwheels need to be done to make this about some lady trying to make a statement, when the real issue is that she was attacked by a mob

we can take this even further too:

say we have two seperate events, which we want to analyze for "wrongness"

a) woman makes a political statement at a rally, embarassing the person on stage

b) a person is assaulted by a mob

now, it is very clear why, taken as seperate issues, b) is more wrong than a).

Why then, when we combine a) and b), does the wrongness of a) make the woman responsible for b)?

Originally posted by inimalist
thats my point, you are doing whatever mental cartwheels need to be done to make this about some lady trying to make a statement, when the real issue is that she was attacked by a mob

Just walking down the street?

see, exactly my point. why does it matter what she was doing? you make it sound as though there are actions this woman made that make it her fault, when that is not true, at all.

she might as well have been walking down the street. She was breaking no law and posed no threat to anyone.

Originally posted by inimalist
we can take this even further too:

say we have two seperate events, which we want to analyze for "wrongness"

a) woman makes a political statement at a rally, embarassing the person on stage

b) a person is assaulted by a mob

now, it is very clear why, taken as seperate issues, b) is more wrong than a).

Why then, when we combine a) and b), does the wrongness of a) make the woman responsible for b)?

If the woman did not do a), then b) would not have happened.

I have always been told that if you go up to a big guy in a bar and stick your finger in his chest, you deserve whatever you get. That has nothing to do with right or wrong, it is just a fact.

Originally posted by inimalist
see, exactly my point. why does it matter what she was doing? you make it sound as though there are actions this woman made that make it her fault, when that is not true, at all.

she might as well have been walking down the street. She was breaking no law and posed no threat to anyone.

I don't agree. She was making a dangerous political statement, and payed the price. Was it right or wrong? There is more then enough wrong to go around.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't agree. She was making a dangerous political statement, and payed the price. Was it right or wrong? There is more then enough wrong to go around.

So you do blame her, you're basically saying 'if she didn't want to get stomped, she should have not been there and done that', never mind that she wasn't doing anything illegal or threatening in a manor that would have required little more than a couple men holding her off for a minute.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If the woman did not do a), then b) would not have happened.

I have always been told that if you go up to a big guy in a bar and stick your finger in his chest, you deserve whatever you get. That has nothing to do with right or wrong, it is just a fact.

The thing is that's the same with every single crime that happens. If the woman had locked her door she would not have been raped. If the man hadn't walked through this neighborhood he wouldn't have been robbed. If the person had taken a vacation that week they would have not been killed, etc.

You are going out of your way to blame her and excuse the attackers.