Marijuana

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think there's a "danger" in letting small children have too much of anything that might displace their productive activities. Its no different from limiting the time your kids spend playing video games so that they'll do their homework.

A clever response. Excuse some of the loaded questions, I'm just trying to pick your brain and answer some of my random musings.

So let's assume, hypothetically, that you do have children. Using your analogy, most children do eat candy, and it's up to the parent to limit the intake.

Would you be willing to let your child use marijuana before his late teenage years if you controlled how much he or she used?

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
A clever response. Excuse some of the loaded questions, I'm just trying to pick your brain and answer some of my random musings.

So let's assume, hypothetically, that you do have children. Using your analogy, most children do eat candy, and it's up to the parent to limit the intake.

Would you be willing to let your child use marijuana before his late teenage years if you controlled how much he or she used?

Another problem is that a younger child couldn't necessarily be trusted to remain quiet about their use; which of course, could get me and my family into very heavy legal trouble. Now that I think about it, I don't think i'd even consider giving it to a child.

I don't know you very well, but from your answers, you seem to be responsible and mature in your marijuana use. You advocate for its use, but recognize potential dangers, and don't believe that it should be used with utter disregard.

That about right?

That sounds good to me. I mean, its situational as well. You could go live on a commune and just get stoned all the time and it wouldn't hurt you, when you're in a regular job or school, you got to sober up a bit. When in HS, i'd smoke several times a week during summer break, but during school it was more like a couple times a month.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Is marijuana use the result of a person's instinctual desire for autonomy, rebellion, or a genuine love for its effects?

instinctual?

well, it can be, each person is different

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Do users believe that happiness or bliss is unattainable without it?

yes

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
On the flipside, my caution around marijuana is likely the result of fear. There is an overriding stereotype about so-called 'potheads' being lazy, unambitious, amoral, and stupid and the very few that I know propogate this belief.

I've heard people who don't use it are presumptious, judgemental, overbearing, moralistic and the few I know propogate this belief [sic]

people are people

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Essentially, would it honestly be a struggle for you to stop smoking pot, cold turkey?

I'm 26 now. From the age of 17, I've essentially gotten high multiple times every day. Not only that, I dealt for a couple of years, so, for a while I had been in a situation where I smoked whenever I wanted.

I recently moved to a new city, where I don't have such access to pot, and have gone a week or a few days without it. I've cut back on my use probably 10 fold. What would have been a daily supply can now last me 3-4. This isn't just access, I have to be much more responsible with my money here than I previously had been.

This has really had no effect that I am aware of, and I have tried to be aware of possible withdrawl symptoms. Long story short, it isn't really that hard to give up, if its just not there.

Now, if I had a bag of it, and there was no reason for me not to smoke, I might have a hard time convincing myself not to, but there really was no dificulty in stopping or cutting back.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Next question: if the health risks are minimal or nonexistent, would you allow your children to do it?

I can't imagine "allow" is the proper term. If your child is going to get high, there is very little you can do to stop them.

Originally posted by Lacan Grahf
Admittedly, I'm not ass deep in marijuana-relevant literature and analysis, so correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it been postulated that there is little to no harmful effects to its use?

So where is the risk, psychologically or medically?

Though, to be fair, I think that has more to do with the "not going to school" aspect than the "smoking marijuana" aspect. But I agree with you in principle.

YouTube video

strange turn. I would have thought laws were incrementally changing toward legalization, but this is a big step back. I agree that it won't hold up, but if the dutch are making a crackdown on weed, that is ominous for the rest of us.

Originally posted by inimalist
YouTube video

strange turn. I would have thought laws were incrementally changing toward legalization, but this is a big step back. I agree that it won't hold up, but if the dutch are making a crackdown on weed, that is ominous for the rest of us.

I like how the justification is that they weren't trying to bring in tourists when they had the idea.

hey man, Amsterdam is about the museums 😉

I was going to go there this summer, as part of a euro-trek. I had planned to enjoy more than just coffeeshops, obviously, but I don't think i'll stop there if they're banned.

totally. I wasn't trying to imply there is nothing cool there, Rotterdam is actually a very significant city in the history of the electronic music I like, but without the coffeeshops, it doesn't add much that you can't find in any major European city. I figure they will realize this before they ban it in Amsterdam. the boarder cities I can understand a little more, but still, it's a weird move for the Dutch.

Yeah, I will be keeping a close eye on this story given how it may affect my vacation plans...

Made the most ghetto, low budget waterfall bong last night... works like a charm. Now that's how to smoke.

I've had my fair share of withdrawls.

Well that's kind of strange. What symptoms?

comparing pot to tobacco:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18342479

A Withdrawal Symptom Checklist assessed the severity of abstinence symptoms and a Likert scale assessed perceived relations between abstinence symptoms and relapse. A composite Withdrawal Discomfort Score did not differ significantly between groups (M = 13.0 for cannabis, vs. M = 13.2 for tobacco). Individual symptom severity ratings were also of similar magnitude, except craving and sweating were slightly higher for tobacco. Both groups reported that withdrawal contributed substantially to relapse, and the strength of these ratings was similar across groups.

...

The comparable withdrawal experience from these heterogeneous cannabis and tobacco users supports previous findings from controlled laboratory studies and indicates that real-world, frequent cannabis users perceive that withdrawal symptoms negatively affect their desire and ability to quit

This study names increased sex drive, anxiety, and obviously "craving" as symptoms: (in the abstract at least)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20678028

this one shows anxiety effects in mice from THC withdrawl:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20363293

and while there is no abstract, the title here, about self reported sleep disturbance, may also be a sign

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20138005

I'm back home for the holidays, and I'm not entirely sure how to look up articles remotely here, so I can't look up what the questionaires of symptoms they use in the studies on withdrawl, but there are a good number of studies. Maybe like a dozen dealing with it in 2010. At the very least, it seems to be confirmed as a behavioural phenomenon.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Made the most ghetto, low budget waterfall bong last night... works like a charm. Now that's how to smoke.

I haven't made a waterfall in years... you might have inspired me!

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well that's kind of strange. What symptoms?

Nothing too harsh. Occasional anxiety. Waking up full of sweat for about a week. Pains in random places around my torso. It seems like its all in the mind. I also lost 10 pounds which I have now gained back after smoking and lifting again. I didn't have much of an apetite for about a week. Sometimes I'd just force myself to eat just to eat.

This was after smoking for three years daily. Now that I'm smoking again I can easily skip a day or a week without any symptoms. As for alcohol though... that ***** is creeping up on me.

Originally posted by inimalist
I haven't made a waterfall in years... you might have inspired me!

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Nothing too harsh. Occasional anxiety. Waking up full of sweat for about a week. Pains in random places around my torso. It seems like its all in the mind. I also lost 10 pounds which I have now gained back after smoking and lifting again. I didn't have much of an apetite for about a week. Sometimes I'd just force myself to eat just to eat.

This was after smoking for three years daily. Now that I'm smoking again I can easily skip a day or a week without any symptoms. As for alcohol though... that ***** is creeping up on me.

Originally posted by 753
Being high all the time would probably screw up their mental development even without any significant permanent collateral damage. They need to be sober to learn shit at school, so drugs should be kept for adults.

Well, there are the exceptions with those that have anxiety problems. There are also some that have ADHD that can focus/relax much more while in school, while baked.

But it would be illogical of me not to disclose that they were few and far between, not the rule.