Originally posted by paisapowerWhat do you mean? I didn't tell you to edit that, I just edited my post, if that's what you mean.
It seems too late to edit.
Originally posted by paisapowerYes, I've listened to it, and though he says that this is his tribute to the original race of Superman 199 and his feelings about the whole Superman/Flash rivalry, I don't think there's a single line about the kids at the end being meant to throw everybody off of the fact that this race actually took place. And, like I've already mentioned, the fact that he specifically mentions the ending to be a twist, when your interpretation of what he means is nothing as such, clearly suggests that it was just that - the race never happened, and it was just two kids playing it out for Halloween.
Did you ever listen to that Interview ?
This is the last post on this matter though, since I feel we're running in circles.
Originally posted by paisapower😂 superman is no where near as fast as a CIS/PIS less flash
No, I think its pretty clear that Flash is faster. My argument was that hes only slightly faster.And also the validity of the scans of Flash and Supes running at light spped, that I posted.
flash is on a completley different league
Originally posted by DesaadMeh, that was Johns in his usual "have my character humiliate the established, most popular ones" in order to up his current one. Similar with the "I'll have Hal punch Batman and John Stewart go all 'you're just a man, *****'" scene. And even so, in order for Barry to outrun Superman, he had to enter the speedforce and really push himself. Not to mention that just recently, the Reverse Flash has acknowledged Superman as a speed rival. And just for fun, here's the way thing stood before Johns got a hold of the rivalry:
C'mon everyone, Flash Rebirth summed it up perfectly for everyone."Clark...Those were for CHARITY."
Barry Allen makes a refference to a race they’ve had – a stalemate, in which he felt Superman held back. This angers him, as he wanted to know who was truly faster and didn’t want Superman to hold back on him.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/barysupesholdingback.jpg
Originally posted by Philosophía
Meh, that was Johns in his usual "have my character humiliate the established, most popular ones" in order to up his current one. Similar with the "I'll have Hal punch Batman and John Stewart go all 'you're just a man, *****'" scene. And even so, in order for Barry to outrun Superman, he had to enter the speedforce and really push himself. Not to mention that just recently, the Reverse Flash has acknowledged Superman as a speed rival. And just for fun, here's the way thing stood before Johns got a hold of the rivalry:
So you're going to take a throwaway line over definitive proof that the Flash is faster than Superman on multiple occasions? We've seen Wally not only outrun Superman, but also outrun his HEAT vision, and then totally leave him in the dust when he got serious as well. We've seen both of them go way beyond light speed, which is something Post Crisis Superman has never really done.
Barry Allen makes a refference to a race they’ve had – a stalemate, in which he felt Superman held back. This angers him, as he wanted to know who was truly faster and didn’t want Superman to hold back on him. Yes, there was a time before Geoff Johns got his hand on the Barry/Superman race.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/barysupesholdingback.jpg
The Flashes have been consistently gaining in speed, especially as they began to learn about the Speed Force. Barry was always quite fast, but Wally supposedly 'outspeeded him' upon gaining control of the Speedforce. Yet when Barry returned, he was/is AT LEAST as fast as Wally, if not faster.
We've seen over and over that the Flashes are consistently faster, and considerably faster, than Superman. At least the 'main' Flashes. And I'll bet dollars to donuts that is how it will be portrayed from now on -- and that is how it should be.
Originally posted by DesaadI never argued the fact that the Flashes, both Barry and Wally, are portrayed as faster than Superman. All I did was adress the fact that this undermining tehniques ("Those were for chairty", *punch*, "You're just a man"😉 are recurrent in Johns work, and even so, Barry outrunning Superman wasn't as easy as the charity line implied.
So you're going to take a throwaway line over definitive proof that the Flash is faster than Superman on multiple occasions?
Originally posted by DesaadWhich still didn't keep him off his back, as Superman was still keeping up to him up until the very end, where as you put it, Wally 'got serious' and outraced him to Linda's apartment. The same way Barry first thought he had outran all the heroes, but he had only left Hal and Wonder Woman in the dust, Superman was still coming right beside him, and had to push himself/go into the speedforce to really lose him.
but also outrun his HEAT vision
My point? Yes, the Flashes are faster than Superman. But based on their races, they can't casually leave him behind, and have to work for it.
Originally posted by DesaadDifferent Zooms (the one you're reffering to leaves Wally in the dust aswell), but I see you already knew this.
And he wouldn't. It's a throwaway line.Superman has FACED zoom, and been totally useless against him, in the Sinestro Corps Special 1. Literally ran circles around him.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I never argued the fact that the Flashes, both Barry and Wally, are portrayed as faster than Superman. All I did was adress the fact that this undermining tehniques ("Those were for chairty", *punch*, "You're just a man"😉 are recurrent in Johns work, and even so, Barry outrunning Superman wasn't as easy as the charity line implied.
The constant revision of history, backed up by the actions of that scene itself, in fact DOES mean it was that easy, now. I acknowledge that at an earlier time Superman was just the best at EVERYTHING, but that time has (rightfully) passed.
Which still didn't keep him off his back, as Superman was still keeping up to him up until the very end, where as you put it, Wally 'got serious' and outraced him to Linda's apartment.
Right. I'm sure that when Wally is just running around at normal Speeds Superman can hang, especially since he doesn't have to worry about manuevering nearly as much thanks to flight and invulnerability. But Wally outran his god damn HEAT VISION, made it clear that he could have stopped Superman at any time, and then when he actually had some motivation he left Superman completely in the dust.
Outrunning Superman would have solved nothing, anyway. With Superman's speed - even if it was half of what Wally's was - and his senses, the moment Wally stopped Superman would have been on him like white on rice.
The same way Barry first thought he had outran all the heroes, but he had only left Hal and Wonder Woman in the dust, Superman was still coming right beside him, and had to push himself/go into the speedforce to really lose him.
We don't know how much he had to push himself to actually outrun Supes, just that if he was on a fun run Superman could keep up but that if he had any real desire to leave him behind, he could apparently do it on a whim.
My point? Yes, the Flashes are faster than Superman. But based on their races, they can't casually leave him behind, and have to work for it.
Depends on your definition of 'casually'.
Different Zooms (the one you're reffering to leaves Wally in the dust aswell), but I see you already knew this.
Yeah, but going by the time of evidence you're throwing around here, that scene indicates that Hal Jordan is faster than Superman, Wonder Woman or the Flash. Hal has likewise caught Barry when Superman specifically failed to do so.
Zoom saying that Superman is almost as fast as he is or whatever is evidence of nothing.
Originally posted by DesaadAh, there it is. The random, unprovoked bait statement, after I had just stated that I do agree the Flashes are faster than Superman.
I acknowledge that at an earlier time Superman was just the best at EVERYTHING, but that time has (rightfully) passed.
I understand though, even right now when Green Lantern is at the top of the comic industry, with company wide crossovers like Blackest Night and spinoffs like Brightest day, not to mention a movie coming up, your fictional buttbudy Hal Jordan still sucks as a character. The frustration must be immense, and its okay to take it off at Superman and his fans, Astro.
ha-som
Originally posted by DesaadIt would be nice if you'd read my arguments. The actions of that scene lend quite the contrary, Barry had to push himself and go into the speedforce to actually loses Superman, after already failing to lose him with the other heroes (Wonder Woman and Hal) on his first 'boost' of speed.
The constant revision of history, backed up by the actions of that scene itself, in fact DOES mean it was that easy, now.
Originally posted by DesaadYes, Wally outran Superman's heat vision but, like I've already said (how surprising), even after that, he still didn't lose Superman. The fact that he could have stopped Superman by stealing his speed is quite irrelevant to my point - which you've somewhat stated in your last line - when Wally actually pushes himself (like Barry), he can leave Superman behind but otherwise, he doesn't and hasn't.
But Wally outran his god damn HEAT VISION, made it clear that he could have stopped Superman at any time, and then when he actually had some motivation he left Superman completely in the dust.
Originally posted by DesaadWas that a display of superspeed on the part of Hal, or was it just skill? Because there's a difference here. Zoom specifically put an emphasis after Superman tagged him that Superman's speed rivals his own, so yes, it is valid, and certainly not 'evidence of nothing'.
Yeah, but going by the time of evidence you're throwing around here, that scene indicates that Hal Jordan is faster than Superman, Wonder Woman or the Flash. Hal has likewise caught Barry when Superman specifically failed to do so.Zoom saying that Superman is almost as fast as he is or whatever is evidence of nothing.
