There are ranges of holding back. For example: (i) you can not fight at all, (ii) you can fight jokingly, (iii)you can fight half-heartedly, and (iv) you can fight to make someone give up but not give it your utmost.
Nobody's really suggesting that Odin wasn't fighting at all or was doing it jokingly. He wanted to humiliate Thanos into submission. Odin was doing (iv) and still wasn't being hurt. Considering Odin's feats when going all-out, he'd kill Thanos.
Other than being specially built to eat Galactus' energies, I don't see anything Tyrant did that Odin wouldn't be capable of. Tyrant fought several high heralds simultaneously, true. Mostly because he was capable of one-shotting most of them, true. Odin could do that. He one-shotted PG Drax and one-shotted Surfer. Had you thrown in Gladiator or Morg, they'd have been one-shotted in quick succession also.
And yes, Tyrant can literally eat Galactus' attacks. So Tyrant getting knocked around by Galactus and surviving isn't exactly a durability feat.
Tyrant also took it easy on his food, because as you could clearly see, he was playing with them. Odin was all up in arms over them being there. Could Odin have simply used more force on them than Tyrant? Could Tyrant have killed the Surfer if he really wanted to? In both cases when he fought the Herald's, his greater scheme, was to use them to strengthen his campaign against Galan.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There are ranges of holding back. For example: [b](i) you can not fight at all, (ii) you can fight jokingly, (iii)you can fight half-heartedly, and (iv) you can fight to make someone give up but not give it your utmost.Nobody's really suggesting that Odin wasn't fighting at all or was doing it jokingly. He wanted to humiliate Thanos into submission. Odin was doing (iv) and still wasn't being hurt. Considering Odin's feats when going all-out, he'd kill Thanos.
Other than being specially built to eat Galactus' energies, I don't see anything Tyrant did that Odin wouldn't be capable of. Tyrant fought several high heralds simultaneously, true. Mostly because he was capable of one-shotting most of them, true. Odin could do that. He one-shotted PG Drax and one-shotted Surfer. Had you thrown in Gladiator or Morg, they'd have been one-shotted in quick succession also.
And yes, Tyrant can literally eat Galactus' attacks. So Tyrant getting knocked around by Galactus and surviving isn't exactly a durability feat. [/B]
The first assault on Tyrant by Galactus was a durability feat. The second one wasn't. Notice that Tyrant was hurled through a bulk head by Galan's premiere assault, and notice that Galan's second assault was unable to push him an inch. You know I'm right on this point ODG.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If you want to speculate that Odin was trying harder than Tyrant to one-shot Surfer, prove it. I'm not here to make your argument for you.
If you don't agree, let's chalk it up to a divergence of opinions.
Tyrant did not want to kill any of the Herald's, they were more valuable to him as sources of energy, so that he could launch a successful campaign against Galactus. Who's intent was to wipe the cosmos clean of Tyrant's existence, as written on panel.
Odin's motivations were different than Tyrant's.... I mean most people steam their veggies so as not to lose too many nutrients, as opposed to flat out boiling them. Could a similar situation have been attempted by Tyrant?
^ I know that Tyrant stated outright that what Galactus was attacking him with, was in fact, something Tyrant could feed upon.
And on comparisons with Odin, again, not my job to make my argument for you. DP Tyrant one-shotted high heralds in quick succession while being attacked by others like bowling pins. So did Odin. Odin just didn't have as many bowling pins.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I know that Tyrant stated outright that what Galactus was attacking him with, was in fact, something Tyrant could feed upon.And on comparisons with Odin, again, not my job to make my argument for you. DP Tyrant one-shotted high heralds in quick succession while being attacked by others like bowling pins. So did Odin. Odin just didn't have as many bowling pins.
I agree with you on the latter, but it was clear that tyrant did not absorb Galan's first assault. You'll notice how he screams in pain from the first volley, but laughs during the second assault.
Why is that? because his second was absorbed, while the first was unexpected. Tyrant had to mentally switch to leech mode, he's not in absorption mode at all times. it is an instant reaction for him, but he has to activate it as seen on panel.
Why do you insist on telling me that you won't argue for me? I don't need you to argue for me ODG (no offense), I'm stating what was seen on panel. I'll let the truth argue for me, and if I somehow missed something, you or someone else should correct me. I have no problem with correction.
People around here seem to believe that tyrant is below the Sky Father line, while he is clearly above this. Do you believe that i think that it would be a walk in the park for Tyrant if he fought Odin? No I don't. I do think he would win quite a few though if they fought, and as a biological form, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't absorb Odin's blasts like he did to Galactus. Speculative? Yes, but who can prove the contrary?
^ Yeah, and despite Tyrant's scream, he literally stated outloud that same exact blast was only empowering him further. Pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive of each other. I could throw many examples at you of this. But as we see from Tyrant's own statement, this very incident is just another example that pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive of each other:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/SilverSurferv3108p09.jpg
Tyrant didn't do anything, other than eat Galactus' B-Es, that Odin couldn't do, IMHO.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yeah, and despite Tyrant's scream, he literally stated outloud that same exact blast was only empowering him further. Pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive of each other. I could throw many examples at you of this. But as we see from Tyrant's own statement, this very incident is just another example that pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive of each other:http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/SilverSurferv3108p09.jpg
Tyrant didn't do anything, other than eat Galactus' B-Es, that Odin couldn't do, IMHO.
Where's the second assault? Tyrant was blind sided by Galan's first assault, he didn't absorb it, if he did then it would have made more sense if the second assault hurled him back again. Did this happen? No. Why? Because the first was not absorbed, while the second was.
See what you want, and I will see what I want pertaining to this. Just remember that these characters have huge egos, and Tyrant could have easily said what he did in jest. It's like getting punched in the face, falling over while screaming, and then telling the guy that clocked you that it didn't hurt. Like I said, see it the way you want, but I'm going with what i saw, and Tyrant was sucker punched, and unready for the first assault.
ODG sorry, I am wrong, I read your scan and it inplicitly states, that Tyrant was absorbing the blast. Although the force was still something that could hurt or take out a Sky Father, as Galactus was amazed that Zeus was able to walk away from. You were right though. I've changed my stance for the most part.
@Stoic and OneDumbGO
Did you guys read the latest issue of Chaos War? If not and you if you don't want to see spoilers stop reading now and ignore my post.
Highlight SPOILERS
In it, Galactus blasted Zeus, Hera, and Ares with intent to kill. Yet Zeus survived. Galactus was amazed and commented "Impossible! No mere skyfather could resist...."
The same Galactus that had to devour a planet to be at his best to face down DP Tyrant.
And now to play devil's advocate, in Odin's defense, he has feats that dwarf any skyfather and almost all abstracts.
Originally posted by zopzop
@Stoic and OneDumbGODid you guys read the latest issue of Chaos War? If not and you if you don't want to see spoilers stop reading now and ignore my post.
Highlight SPOILERS
In it, Galactus blasted Zeus, Hera, and Ares with intent to kill. Yet Zeus survived. Galactus was amazed and commented "Impossible! No [b]mere skyfather
could resist...."The same Galactus that had to devour a planet to be at his best to face down DP Tyrant.
And now to play devil's advocate, in Odin's defense, he has feats that dwarf any skyfather and almost all abstracts. [/B]
Zeus was being amped by Amatsu Mikaboshi. Not quite the same. Galactus was surprised because no normal Sky father could take such a shot in his past. remember Galan has been around for a long time, and he knows what level Zeus is supposed to be on. He was above his norm. Also to flat out say that Odin far outstrips Zeus may be a tad speculative unless they have fought, and Zeus lost. Did they?
Originally posted by StoicI don't see how I'm wrong. Your post is confusing. That's not an insult, I just don't understand it. You kept arguing that Galactus' first assault wasn't absorbed by Tyrant because Tyrant was screaming in pain and laughing with all of Galactus' other assaults.
Where's the second assault? Tyrant was blind sided by Galan's first assault, he didn't absorb it, if he did then it would have made more sense if the second assault hurled him back again. Did this happen? No. Why? Because the first was not absorbed, while the second was.See what you want, and I will see what I want pertaining to this. Just remember that these characters have huge egos, and Tyrant could have easily said what he did in jest. It's like getting punched in the face, falling over while screaming, and then telling the guy that clocked you that it didn't hurt. Like I said, see it the way you want, but I'm going with what i saw, and Tyrant was sucker punched, and unready for the first assault.
ODG sorry, I am wrong, I read your scan and it inplicitly states, that Tyrant was absorbing the blast. Although the force was still something that could hurt or take out a Sky Father, as Galactus was amazed that Zeus was able to walk away from. You were right though. I've changed my stance for the most part.
I just showed you that right after being hit by Galactus' first assault (the one you keep saying he didn't absorb) Tyrant literally states that Galactus is foolishly empowering Tyrant.
Pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive with each other. Here, that's pretty much outright stated:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/SilverSurferv3108p09.jpg
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't see how I'm wrong. Your post is confusing. That's not an insult, I just don't understand it. You kept arguing that Galactus' first assault wasn't absorbed by Tyrant because Tyrant was screaming in pain and laughing with all of Galactus' other assaults.I just showed you that right after being hit by Galactus' first assault (the one you keep saying he didn't absorb) Tyrant literally states that Galactus is foolishly empowering Tyrant.
Pain and empowerment aren't necessarily dispositive with each other. Here, that's pretty much outright stated:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/SilverSurferv3108p09.jpg
No I retracted my statement at the end, I just chose to keep the rest there to show my goof. Disregard the begining, and go with the end. I agree with you for the most part, but the impact was very real, and more than enough to either put a Sky Father out or at the very least injure one. The initial impact however was a durability feat, or Tyrant would not have screamed. Meaning the point of impact hurt like a bytch, even though it was absorbed.
And that is where who did better against Thanos comes into play. Could Tyrant have seen Thanos as another fly in his web? What do you think would have happened to Thanos if Tyrant was given the chance to put him down? We both know that it was coming. Hence the reason for Thanos' swift retreat.
Tyrant wasn't going all out on Thanos, while Odin appeared to have been using more emotion or trying harder to put Thanos down. It's was clear that Odin's motivations differed from Tyrant's, and it was also clear that Thanos used an item of power to survive Tyrant's assaults. Whereas Odin took out Gungnir on an unarmed opponent. Gugnir clearly brought it up a notch for Odin, or he would have never pulled it out of that pocket dimension.
Your argument still does not negate that it was a durability feat for Tyrant. The impact was real, and Tyrant seemed far more prepared for a second volley, which had no impact. Did Tyrant absorb the kinetic energy in the second volley as well?
Originally posted by StoicI understand that's what you see when you read it. But going on character traits: Tyrant's a ruthless bastard. Odin's a wise, but haughty bastard. I see Tyrant's force of personality leading to Tyrant trying to beat down Thanos more ruthlessly than Odin's would. Ultimately, it's far less subjective to just look at hard comparisons. Because if you take Tyrant's best feats and Odin's best feats -- while responsibly disregarding circumstantial feats that involve Tyrant's ability to absorb Galactus' attacks -- Odin was more likely to have been holding back than Tyrant, Tyrant having to deal with Thanos' amp notwithstanding.
And that is where who did better against Thanos comes into play. Could Tyrant have seen Thanos as another fly in his web? What do you think would have happened to Thanos if Tyrant was given the chance to put him down? We both know that it was coming. Hence the reason for Thanos' swift retreat.Tyrant wasn't going all out on Thanos, while Odin appeared to have been using more emotion or trying harder to put Thanos down. It's was clear that Odin's motivations differed from Tyrant's, and it was also clear that Thanos used an item of power to survive Tyrant's assaults. Whereas Odin took out Gungnir on an unarmed opponent. Gugnir clearly brought it up a notch for Odin, or he would have never pulled it out of that pocket dimension.
Originally posted by StoicTrying to quantify how much damage Tyrant took, as opposed to energy absorbed, is a distraction. Like I said, if you gave Odin the ability to eat B-Es, I see Odin taking that blast just the same or better. Not far worse.
Your argument still does not negate that it was a durability feat for Tyrant. The impact was real, and Tyrant seemed far more prepared for a second volley, which had no impact. Did Tyrant absorb the kinetic energy in the second volley as well?
Originally posted by Stoic
Zeus was being amped by Amatsu Mikaboshi. Not quite the same.
Yes you are correct. Mika was actually living inside and powering "Zeus". I meant to add that Galactus sees Skyfathers as well beneath him in terms of power. It got lost when I was setting up the "SPOILER" font color. LOL. That teaches me to act cool.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Use [spoiler] to start the warning and than [*spoiler] to end it.Replace the * with a /
Like this:
[spoiler]This is how not to spoil.[*spoiler]
Yea but he got cool with it and made the text invisible by turning it white.
I agree with some of your last post, but I also know that Tyrant had an agenda, and that was to kill Galactus. Thanos would have been a welcome Orb in his campaign if he were able to KO him, but Thanos knowing this left before Tyrant could carry out this plan. Like I said they both had different motives when dealing with Thanos, and the Heralds. I do not see Odin having a hard time with the same group that Tyrant KO'd.
We can't really compare Odin's upper level feats to Tyrant's because Odin has so many more appearances. The only commonality that they share is how well they did against Thanos. Odin did have a weapon as mentioned, and Thanos was unarmed, Whereas Thanos had an amp, and Tyrant had no weapon. Imagine if Tyrant pulled out a mythical super weapon called Busturassup, and used it on Thanos. I think that there was more to Tyrant's battle plan than meets the eye.
Originally posted by StoicOk. If you want to exhaust this line of inquiry, let's run with it. Did Tyrant express interest in using Thanos as a specimen?
I agree with some of your last post, but I also know that Tyrant had an agenda, and that was to kill Galactus. Thanos would have been a welcome Orb in his campaign if he were able to KO him, but Thanos knowing this left before Tyrant could carry out this plan. Like I said they both had different motives when dealing with Thanos, and the Heralds. I do not see Odin having a hard time with the same group that Tyrant KO'd.
Originally posted by StoicFocusing on just how they both reacted to Thanos completely ignores how Odin was relatively unphased by Thanos' attacks while Tyrant was getting knocked around by Thanos' amped attacks...
We can't really compare Odin's upper level feats to Tyrant's because Odin has so many more appearances. The only commonality that they share is how well they did against Thanos. Odin did have a weapon as mentioned, and Thanos was unarmed, Whereas Thanos had an amp, and Tyrant had no weapon. Imagine if Tyrant pulled out a mythical super weapon called Busturassup, and used it on Thanos. I think that there was more to Tyrant's battle plan than meets the eye.
... if you want to mince words/illustrations/circumstances.
