Are atheists afraid of judgement?

Started by Surtur44 pages

Because people who are religious want to believe that deep down atheists are just people who are secretly crying for some kind of spiritual guidance. To them a person is not truly an atheist, just someone who doesn't want to acknowledge God.

I could almost compare it to being gay. Not that atheists suffered any kind of persecution that gays did, but it goes back to when people thought it was just a sickness of the mind that could be cured.

In the end they can't stand if a person is content in life without any type of religion.

Originally posted by Surtur
Because people who are religious want to believe that deep down atheists are just people who are secretly crying for some kind of spiritual guidance. To them a person is not truly an atheist, just someone who doesn't want to acknowledge God.

I could almost compare it to being gay. Not that atheists suffered any kind of persecution that gays did, but it goes back to when people thought it was just a sickness of the mind that could be cured.

In the end they can't stand if a person is content in life without any type of religion.

You're likely right in a number of cases. But I think there are a number of people who literally can't imagine a worldview without God in it. I didn't realize that this could be the case until I had been an atheist for a while, and people were genuinely mystified as to how I could define morality and purpose. These were people I considered friends, not those who would want to vindictively project their beliefs onto me.

So I don't think it's always them projecting their biases onto atheists (though, if I were taking a guess, that's what I'd say the OP is doing here). I think sometimes they're simply unable to imagine it.

The concept of persecution is a different topic entirely, but is one that interests me. The analogy to gays isn't entirely out of line, but it depends a lot on what kind of persecution you're referring to. For clarity, I tend to break persecution down into two primary variables: prevalence and severity. Prevalence is the number of people who dislike or mistrust a demographic in some way. And severity is the degree to which they're persecuted. No one should argue that atheists have been persecuted more severely than LGBT or, say, blacks during the Civil Right Movement. However, there is overwhelming, repeated data that the prevalence of atheist mistrust is higher than any other demographic in America (I can't speak for other countries). Only twice in the last 75 years or so - when data is present - have atheists been anything but the most mistrusted group in the country: immediately after 9/11, Muslims took over the top spot, and during the...I think is was 2008 election, the Tea Party was up there. Again, we're talking prevalence. But, as counterintuitive as it may sound, at any point in the last 50-75 years, if you took a random sampling of people, odds are more would mistrust or dislike atheists than any ethnic, religious, political, or cultural group. Scary stuff. I think the only reason we tend to dismiss atheistic prejudice as opposed to, say, LGBT or black prejudice, is that there are so few atheists that reaching the kind of cultural tipping point needed to make a societal imprint is thus far impossible. That, and those other groups have been persecuted more severely, which can't be ignored.

well i for one am just gonna go ahead and say it

yes i am afraid of judgement. especially when it happens inside a courthouse.

Originally posted by Digi
This thread is incredibly dumb. I'm not sure what it takes to hear about 20 variations on "no" from atheists and still try to force the premise, but OP has it. Like mashing a round peg into a square hole over and over.

Lol at the toy pony analogy, though. That legit made me laugh.

Glad I could at least make you laugh!

Maybe you think that the question was dumb but that's just an opinion of yours..You're entitled to it of course, but when I originally asked the question it was a sincere query. It's possible that someone exists that used to be an atheist and isn't anymore.

Maybe what I've done that is dumb is expecting to get a response from somebody other than people who are currently atheists, because it has become obvious that the majority of the people who post in the religion forum don't have much respect for religions in general. I've seen a lot of cynicism and mocking but maybe that's the nature of the beast. I've still enjoyed discussing this with you guys! At least you're not calling me things that I'm obviously not, slamming me with walls of heavily opinionated text, and misconstruing my statements until they're not mine anymore.

Thanks for not doing that! Seriously! 😮‍💨

edit

Originally posted by The MISTER
Glad I could at least make you laugh!

Maybe you think that the question was dumb but that's just an opinion of yours..You're entitled to it of course, but when I originally asked the question it was a sincere query. It's possible that someone exists that used to be an atheist and isn't anymore.

Maybe what I've done that is dumb is expecting to get a response from somebody other than people who are currently atheists, because it has become obvious that the majority of the people who post in the religion forum don't have much respect for religions in general. I've seen a lot of cynicism and mocking but maybe that's the nature of the beast. I've still enjoyed discussing this with you guys! At least you're not calling me things that I'm obviously not, slamming me with walls of heavily opinionated text, and misconstruing my statements until they're not mine anymore.

Thanks for not doing that! Seriously! 😮‍💨

Your question was bad. There is no connection between atheism and the fear of Judgment. I can imagine there are a lot of atheists that are judged because of their "belief" everyday. If they were afraid of judgment, wouldn't they stay a Christian? Then they wouldn't be judged by their family and friends for being atheist.

They should be afraid of my judgement.

Originally posted by Mindset
They should be afraid of my judgement.

Everyone is afraid of your judgment. 😉

Originally posted by The MISTER
Glad I could at least make you laugh!

Maybe you think that the question was dumb but that's just an opinion of yours..You're entitled to it of course, but when I originally asked the question it was a sincere query. It's possible that someone exists that used to be an atheist and isn't anymore.

Maybe what I've done that is dumb is expecting to get a response from somebody other than people who are currently atheists, because it has become obvious that the majority of the people who post in the religion forum don't have much respect for religions in general. I've seen a lot of cynicism and mocking but maybe that's the nature of the beast. I've still enjoyed discussing this with you guys! At least you're not calling me things that I'm obviously not, slamming me with walls of heavily opinionated text, and misconstruing my statements until they're not mine anymore.

Thanks for not doing that! Seriously! 😮‍💨

It gets knocked for the right reasons though. Nobody ever says "damn those Christians, they had a bake sale and the proceeds go towards the homeless". Some do say "wow some of you legitimately believe in the bible and thus worship a guy who came a few people shy of total genocide".

You see the religions themselves provide all the material, as do the overly zealous religious folk.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Glad I could at least make you laugh!

Maybe you think that the question was dumb but that's just an opinion of yours..You're entitled to it of course, but when I originally asked the question it was a sincere query. It's possible that someone exists that used to be an atheist and isn't anymore.

Maybe what I've done that is dumb is expecting to get a response from somebody other than people who are currently atheists, because it has become obvious that the majority of the people who post in the religion forum don't have much respect for religions in general. I've seen a lot of cynicism and mocking but maybe that's the nature of the beast. I've still enjoyed discussing this with you guys! At least you're not calling me things that I'm obviously not, slamming me with walls of heavily opinionated text, and misconstruing my statements until they're not mine anymore.

Thanks for not doing that! Seriously! 😮‍💨

Rather than try to sift through the sarcasm, I'll just reiterate that the thread title can be answered in a single word: No. And, in fact, it has been answered with "no" numerous times. Any cynicism you're perceiving is due to your inability to accept this as true, and the mental gymnastics you're taking to try to justify a "yes". Which is an answer that, tbh, could be seen as mildly insulting given your rationale for it, and how it seems to ignore those who have given you straight answers on the topic. Hell, the very first response in this thread states that you've had this same conversation before, and have been told the answers to your questions "dozens of times." That was in 2010. So are you really still in the same place as you were in 2010 (and, presumably, even earlier)?

disclaimer: i can't sift through 40 pages of this shit so this might all have already been said

maybe he was just wondering if we ever have pause about our beliefs and end up being wrong, which based on his ideology would send us to hell

that would be something to worry about if we assigned even a remote plausibility to christianity being true... even if it's only like 5% chance, still something to worry about.

but the answer is, frankly, that we are so confident that christianity is false that this isn't something we worry about

and that will sound insulting to christians.. which is why you shouldn't ask us these questions if you have thin skin, my christian friends

Originally posted by red g jacks
disclaimer: i can't sift through 40 pages of this shit so this might all have already been said

maybe he was just wondering if we ever have pause about our beliefs and end up being wrong, which based on his ideology would send us to hell

that would be something to worry about if we assigned even a remote plausibility to christianity being true... even if it's only like 5% chance, still something to worry about.

but the answer is, frankly, that we are so confident that christianity is false that this isn't something we worry about

and that will sound insulting to christians.. which is why you shouldn't ask us these questions if you have thin skin, my christian friends

Even that gets into Pascal's Wager territory, and presumes that the God we're not worshipping (whichever it ends up being) is a petty one who cares about whether or not I go to church on Sunday. A God who would punish a just life isn't one worth worshipping or acknowledging.

So it's not even about absolute belief, though yes, the Christian God is in the same intellectual strata as Santa for me.

Originally posted by Digi
A God who would punish a just life isn't one worth worshipping or acknowledging.
well that's interesting... we might disagree here

let me ask you... if you knew for a fact that said god existed and that all you needed to do to get into heaven was bend your knee and acknowledge him... with the alternative being hell/eternal torture

would you submit or opt for hell?

I will note that the Bible really didn't do the "everyone who's not in heaven suffers eternally" thing too much, that's a doctrine that arose with time. It's much more "everyone who's in with god gets eternal life, those that aren't, oh well." It's very easy to read that those who don't just die, as in properly die forever

Eternal punishment was rarely mentioned in the bible. Mostly for things like not helping the poor.

Originally posted by red g jacks
well that's interesting... we might disagree here

let me ask you... if you knew for a fact that said god existed and that all you needed to do to get into heaven was bend your knee and acknowledge him... with the alternative being hell/eternal torture

would you submit or opt for hell?

There wouldn't be any moral victory to be had by taking the torture. So, unpleasant as it would seem, I'd probably kneel. But at that point, if it's an omniscient God, I'm screwed anyway, because I can't fake true reverence. Only the outward appearance of it can be faked. If a God exists, and He is at once petty enough to demand worship and simultaneously not powerful enough to gauge true adherence, we're spending eternity with the mental equivalent of a toddler and are truly boned in other ways.

Perhaps I should have said such a God isn't "deserving" of worship, to be more precise, since it might be "worth" worshiping out of self-interest. I stand by my statement otherwise. But in either case, that God is a sh*thead.

It's also a bit beside most modern-day versions of the Christian God. Fearing judgement is a relic of the Middle Ages and the kind of extremism that preys off of fear. "God is Love" tends to rule the day in developed countries these days. Many (not all) would have a sinful Christian in trouble, and a righteous atheist doing alright.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note that the Bible really didn't do the "everyone who's not in heaven suffers eternally" thing too much, that's a doctrine that arose with time. It's much more "everyone who's in with god gets eternal life, those that aren't, oh well." It's very easy to read that those who don't just die, as in properly die forever

Eternal punishment was rarely mentioned in the bible. Mostly for things like not helping the poor.

Partially agreed, but people do get punished for all sorts of arbitrary things in the Bible. Even if we allow the Jesus retcon of the Old Testament, it still begs the question of their inclusion in the Bible, or God's seemingly vengeful anger at any point in His history.

But you're right that Hell in general is a somewhat vague thing in the Bible, and is more than likely adapted from other belief systems.

Originally posted by Digi

Partially agreed, but people do get punished for all sorts of arbitrary things in the Bible. Even if we allow the Jesus retcon of the Old Testament, it still begs the question of their inclusion in the Bible, or God's seemingly vengeful anger at any point in His history.

But you're right that Hell in general is a somewhat vague thing in the Bible, and is more than likely adapted from other belief systems.

Right. There's a bunch of punishments- Judas, for example, pretty much just tripped and *exploded*- it's just most of them aren't even hinted at to be eternal.

A lot of our conception of hell came from Dante's Inferno, which is basically the most popular Bible fanfic that didn't make it into the bible.

How often do Christians worry about the judgement and wrath of Kali?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
How often do Christians worry about the judgement and wrath of Kali?

According to my studies*, between 7 and 24 times a week.

*Thing I made up.

I've also had people tell me you can't be an atheist yet believe in ghosts.

Originally posted by Surtur
I've also had people tell me you can't be an atheist yet believe in ghosts.

Oh, you totally can.

It translates as 'without gods,' not 'without any supernatural belief.'