Originally posted by The MISTER
I'll try to answer your question the best I can. We're aware of the fact that many things begin and end. We have much tangible evidence of that fact. The fact that the universe that we inhabit began at some point seems to have been scientifically proven and based on what we've observed everything that is alive in our universe will someday be dead. The evidence that there is an infinite power comes from the....(at this point I'm returning from a massive non-emergency family distraction, forgive me as my train of thought may meander)
...simplicity rather than the complexity of the most abundant evidence we have.
While perusing the internet I came across a top ten video where they listed many speculations about reality. The concept was based around the idea that the universe may be God's video game, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFtt_zGKMok
I agree that using the universe's complexity as evidence of anything seems irrational. How can I use something that I don't fully understand to explain something even more complex than it is?
With that being said if we use simple evidence that we can all understand then perhaps humans can come to agree upon more, and hopefully we can lay some old conflicts to rest.
Please tell me if you think there are flaws in this logic...
We have these shared experiences as evidence of an infinite power. Moments exist, relationships exist, balance exists ,and apparently opposites that reflect the extremes of balance exist.
When we analyze moments we discover that time (past, present, future) is simply the passing of one moment to another. All experiences that exist rely on one moment passing on to another and that would be the case for any entity, deity or otherwise. The answer to the question of how long these moments have the potential to pass is indefinitely based on all that we know about moments and time. Time is simply humans counting moments as accurately as we can while we can. Should humans cease to exist there is zero evidence to suggest that moments would come to an end. Also there is zero evidence that we can accurately count the moments that preceded our universe. Moments support the existence of infinity in that all evidence shows them to be infinite in their potential.
When we analyze relationships we realize that all entities in existence whether sentient or not are defined by their relationships with other entities. For example our relationship with the furthest star we can observe is that we have given it the title of "furthest". A simple relationship, but a relationship by definition. Anything that is aware is created from relationships and a deity would not be exempt from this. All evidence shows awareness of relationships is what all sentience that exists is built from. The conclusion that is derived from this evidence is that an infinite power that is aware of it's own existence would inherently place a value on it's relationships as any sentient being would.
Lastly when we analyze balance and the extremes of balance that we call opposites we get the most powerful evidence that an infinite power must exist. If we look at the most simplistic examples of balance and it's extremes, we will find ourselves looking at "zero" and "one".
"Zero" is equal to the absence of all and it's opposite "one" can be defined accurately as the inclusion of all.
"Zero" can theoretically exist indefinitely without "one" to be it's opposite but such is not the case for "one". Where "one" exists "zero" must be there as it's total opposite. To elaborate on this a little we can see that where the extreme "hot" exists it's opposite "cold" must contrast it. These two exist inside of the all inclusive "one" but no opposites exist in the all exclusive "zero" and never would exist within it for an infinite amount of moments. The conclusion that we come to is that "zero" is infinitely limited to never change and is even devoid of moments, while "one" is infinitely changing and has infinite moments with it's only limitation being that it will never be "zero".
Based on these observations I feel we have enough evidence to affirm that infinity exists undeniably. Infinity will experience moments and what we name infinity has no relevance in consideration to whether it exists or not, it is simply a fact that it does, has, and will exist indefinitely.
Please let me know what you think.
I think this is a nigh-incoherent pseudo-philosophical miasma of half-connected ideas and blind assumptions. Further, I think that you holding this up as proof of God - and, beyond that, proof of God that you can't fathom others doubting - is borderline delusional. Seriously, you've been openly critical of atheists, going so far as to insinuate that many aren't actually atheists and are simply afraid of judgement. And you've also openly questioned how they can deny the evidence, which, presumably, is contained in this post, as though ~500 words musing on infinity could topple centuries of critical thought on the subject. It almost defies credulity. Anything I say further is to humor the argument, not because I find any merit in even addressing it seriously.
So, if I understand the gist of your argument, infinity exists because we perceive time? Or something must exist because existence is the "one" to nonexistence's "zero"? It doesn't take long for this to become absurd. "Not Santa" exists in my computer room right now. He's not here. But for the concept "not Santa" to exist, does that mean that Santa exists? That's a deliberately stupid example, but it's not hard to come up with concepts for which the opposite doesn't exist.
I'm also uncomfortable classifying the idea of infinity as God or the divine. You don't seem to attempt to get at proof of God so much as proof of infinity. In so far as infinity just refers to infinite time, we can describe it in entirely scientific terms. Mathematical and theoretical models exist that sufficiently explain the existence of the universe, and we understand how planets and stars formed, how life came to be on Earth, and how the physical laws of the universe dictate everything from the movements of celestial bodies to the atomic and subatomic levels. No God needed. Nothing that could even be considered metaphysical or supernatural.
You say a couple weird things like "Infinity will experience moments..." as though you're personifying the concept of infinity. But that would require its own extensive justification to superimpose consciousness on a concept that has no reason or method to be conscious.
And please understand, the forcefulness with which I disagree with you is not a personal attack. You're completely entitled to your belief regardless of what I think of them, and mine is only one opinion on them. I just don't pull punches when I see an argument as absurd. It doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand your position. It also doesn't mean that I don't first attempt to consider it on its merits before responding.