Wikileaks Embassy Cables

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/04/paypal-suspends-wikileaks-account/

Paypal has suspended Wikileaks from its service

Interesting tactic, but I think it is ultimately doomed to fail. People willing to pay for wikileaks will probably be willing to use other payment services, and there is certainly nothing stopping Asange et al from designing their own service to recieve funds.

Obviously that opens them up to "money-type" legislation that might be launched against them, but considering there are no clear laws that Wikileaks is breaking, they could hardly be investigated for "funding crime" or "living off the avails".

Most importantly, attacking wikileaks' net infrastructure in terms of access to funding, amazon, twitter, etc, doesn't stop them from recieving leaks, or giving them to the news agencies that make them available to the public. If this is pressure from the American government (which I suspect it is [re: they are probably saying "we will charge you with whatever we eventually charge wikileaks with]), it seems the most they can do are harrassment or delaying tactics.

Originally posted by inimalist
I didn't think it was a gotcha, its just, I don't see what difference it makes, ultimately, if we consider Asange or Wikileaks as part of the media proper.

It was a matter of assuming his sort of journalism is a legitimate part of the fourth estate, or if he is just a bastard. If he isn't a part of legitimate media, then he deserves all of the flak he's getting and the accusations levied against him.

Proof of Totalitarianism. The State Department and Defense Department are now threatening students and soldiers with consequences for LOOKING at wikileaks or talking about wikileaks.

Originally posted by skekUng
It was a matter of assuming his sort of journalism is a legitimate part of the fourth estate, or if he is just a bastard. If he isn't a part of legitimate media, then he deserves all of the flak he's getting and the accusations levied against him.

why is that?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Proof of Totalitarianism. The State Department and Defense Department are now threatening students and soldiers with consequences for LOOKING at wikileaks or talking about wikileaks.

I saw the headline about students in diplomatic programs being told if they ever wanted a job at the state department not to post links to wikileaks on their facebook....

what did they say to soldiers?

Originally posted by inimalist
I saw the headline about students in diplomatic programs being told if they ever wanted a job at the state department not to post links to wikileaks on their facebook....

what did they say to soldiers?

Soldiers trying to access wikileaks are shown a popup stating that they are about to break the law and some have reported that they would be court-martialed for discussing wikileaks. They're really scared of the January release because they are afraid of mass military desertions, assassinations, a general strike, etc. and their actions are going to become increasingly irrational, fascistic, and overblown.

lol, what, do the January dumps contain evidence that the US is gas-chambering Mexicans?

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, what, do the January dumps contain evidence that the US is gas-chambering Mexicans?

do you actually think the US government is worried that people are going to desert the army and try to assassinate them?

All the blustering from them is talk, imho. They want to make Asange look bad and make what he is doing look even worse so that they can get him declared a terrorist or something, which would make it easier for them to prosecute his organization.

Originally posted by inimalist
do you actually think the US government is worried that people are going to desert the army and try to assassinate them?

All the blustering from them is talk, imho. They want to make Asange look bad and make what he is doing look even worse so that they can get him declared a terrorist or something, which would make it easier for them to prosecute his organization.

I think clear evidence that banks give orders to politicians, manipulate economies, engineer disasters outside of well researched books will be enough. Look at the government's actions. They didn't start pissing their pants UNTIL the January release was announced.

The only stuff that seemed like hype is that supposedly in some interview, the guy said that some of the still unreleased cables had stuff in them that would excite the Deano types. You know, supposed messages about crashes and salvages.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Look at the government's actions. They didn't start pissing their pants UNTIL the January release was announced.

Ive been following this man, I don't think this is the case.

1) Asange revealed much earlier this year that he had Bank of America hard drive data, to no real reaction from the American government

2) The rhetoric about Wikileaks being traitorous began prior to the embassy releases

3) The forbes interview you are citing wasn't released until after the Republicans had started calling for his blood. Palin et al had began saying he should be hunted down as soon as the Cables broke, not as a response to the forbes interview.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I think clear evidence that banks give orders to politicians, manipulate economies, engineer disasters outside of well researched books will be enough.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The only stuff that seemed like hype is that supposedly in some interview, the guy said that some of the still unreleased cables had stuff in them that would excite the Deano types. You know, supposed messages about crashes and salvages.

ya, but asange also thought the Afghan and Iraq dumps were going to end the wars. He is a little bit of an idealistic premadonna.

and really, considering "deano types" believe that the eye/pyramid thing on the dollar bill is already proof of massive conspiracy, I can't imagine what some mundane documents that confirm their beliefs is going to do.

Most educated people already understand that this is how banks and wallstreet work.

Right, it's the uneducated people that need to be convinced.

those people are just going to follow what the politicians say anyways.

if, by this point in time, you don't realize that corporations are lying to you, banks manipulate the economy and politicians are never to be trusted, Wikileaks isn't going to do to much for you.

Originally posted by inimalist
those people are just going to follow what the politicians say anyways.

if, by this point in time, you don't realize that corporations are lying to you, banks manipulate the economy and politicians are never to be trusted, Wikileaks isn't going to do to much for you.

But the big question is, who to believe? Maybe the wikileaks thing was done on purpose. It´s not as if the released information is that bad is it.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
But the big question is, who to believe? Maybe the wikileaks thing was done on purpose. It´s not as if the released information is that bad is it.

for whose benefit though?

they certainly aren't going to make US or Israeli foreign policy easier.

they're not all out yet and most of the maisntream reporting on them dont focus on the worst parts

Originally posted by inimalist
why is that?

Because sometimes there are things that certain people shouldn't know. Unfortunately, not every American is assigned a super secret email account when they're born and swear an oath not to tell the people who shouldn't know what the other side's hand is.

I'm sure most people in America couldn't make heads nor tails of most of the information that is in those leaks, as you pointed out. I'm also sure there are certain people who would be interested in the kind of information Mr. Assange could potentially leak in the future. I'm not saying there was a whole lot in this particular round of releases, but there could be in th enext or the one after that. I don't approach this the way some people do, as though his behavior is keeping governments honest, which is the responsability of the media. I approach it for what it is; espionage without the sexy gadgets and easy women.

there is a difference between whistleblowing and journalism though

When one spies on others, one generally keeps the info to one's self to use as leverage and the goal is to stay ahead in a game of secrecy, not to kick everything out and let it all hit the fan.

What Wikileaks does, and they hit a lot more governments than just the USA, is forcing transparency. Justification of secrecy by pragmatism and patriotism rationales is exactly what legitimizes keeping war crimes under the rug.

Originally posted by inimalist
there is a difference between whistleblowing and journalism though

Sure. But which is Mr Assange doing, in your opinion?

Originally posted by skekUng
Sure. But which is Mr Assange doing, in your opinion?

leaking relevant documents that pertain to how the US performs the diplomatic missions that US taxpayers pay them to do and the US population elects them to do.

these ideas of ending wars and opening governments is fine for rhetoric, but ultimately, he is providing information that is relevant for how citizens of the US should evaluate how the government that is supposed to represent them is doing their job.