ROTS Sidious & ROTS Dooku vs TFU Marek & TFU Vader

This fight has been on my mind for a while now.
Do grandpas beat a cyborg and a kid?
Incarnations as specified in the thread topic.
Setting: Geonosis arena.
1) Sabers
2) Force
3) All-out
Which team emerges victorious?

Grandpa's chances of winning are larger than the cyborg and kid's.

I think Marek gets cut up with sabers by either opponent. If Dooku is stupid enough to challenge Marek with the force first, it might not get that far... But... Marek loses the following:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Battle with Dooku
3. Force Battle with Sidious.

He wins.

1. Force Battle with Dooku.

For Vader:

He loses:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Batltle with Dooku
3. Force battle with sidious.

He wins:

1. Force Battle with Dooku.

So Dooku would have to really blow this fight to give the other team a chance.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Grandpa's chances of winning are larger than the cyborg and kid's.

Originally posted by Zampanó
*Grandpas'

Grandpas' *
Ah, damnit. Too late.

I'm pretty sure "kid's" is wrong too.

No, singular possessive.

Originally posted by truejedi
I think Marek gets cut up with sabers by either opponent. If Dooku is stupid enough to challenge Marek with the force first, it might not get that far... But... Marek loses the following:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Battle with Dooku
3. Force Battle with Sidious.

He wins.

1. Force Battle with Dooku.

For Vader:

He loses:

1. Saber Battle with Sidious
2. Saber Batltle with Dooku
3. Force battle with sidious.

He wins:

1. Force Battle with Dooku.

So Dooku would have to really blow this fight to give the other team a chance.

I agree that if it stays a lightsaber battle then Sidious and Dooku take it, but if it becomes force battle I’d say it would be a tossup and Marek and Vader have a fair chance to take them out.
Especially if it’s Marek vs Dooku and Sidious vs Vader in a force fight. IMO Marek will overwhelm Dooku quite swiftly, while Sidious vs Vader battle will drag out. Then Marek helps Vader to finish Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, singular possessive.

Well, shut up.

I don't know why Dooku is getting such a bad buzz.

His superior control might be enough to turn the battle to his advantage. Dooku actually stressed but did not break every single blood vessel in Ventress's body. Marek just hits things until they stop moving.

Advantage: Dooku.

'Every' blood vessel? I wasn't aware that was the case.

I may be mistaken as I do not have that source. However, doing so for even a single capillary (which are mentioned specifically, I believe) is impressive on its own.

Someone got the quote? I think it is Dark Rendezvous.

IIRC, Ventress just shows extreme pain and total submission and Dooku mentions how he somethings about how the blood vessels stretch. It's never explained exactly what he's doing or the extent of his efforts that I recall though.

All the same, it remains an impressive fine-tuned application of the Force, and telekinesis in particular.

I agree. It's one of the most skillful usages of the Force we've seen in the mythos.

I'm not sure if it is that impressive to be honest. I think it's more to do with the fact that Force Users are rarely shown to attempt to use the Force in a precise manner, because for what few showings of precision there are, it's actually pretty low down in the hierarchy. Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina Solo, when they were children and not even well trained, all demonstrate the ability to manipulate air molecules, to the point that they were able to rub them together to create light. Vergere was able to perform molecular scale manipulations to rid herself of disease. And of course, Bane displays a level of precision on the sub-atomic level, and its implied that the simple act of creating a holocron requires a high level of precision as well. I'm not sure we can really call Dooku's display especially impressive.

1. Scions of the Skywalker bloodline are able to apply the Force to a useful purpose on a very fine level. This level of application, while operating on a very low level of organization, does not necessarily have to be difficult. Although you've described it in terms of the molecules' actions, it is possible that the actual application of force (lowercase 'f'😉 takes place on a much higher scale. Instead of manipulating individual molecules, exciting the gas in general would effect a similar effect.

2. I'm not all that familiar with Veregre. In fact, I only remember her from Traitor, and she isn't featured all that heavily in that work. However, this certainly does sound impressive-- certainly along the lines of Dooku's feat in terms of breadth of concentration (molecular biology involves a large number of interactions at once).

3. Bane is Bane. (Also, scientifically, location on the sub-atomic level is not germane to reality and has no meaning. Bane's "manipulations" are directed at particles that, in a very real sense, do not exist. Simply put, the description of this event is as impressive as the statistics behind repulorlift technology: ultimately meaningless technobabble.)

Nebaris, Dooku's display is not precise because it takes place on a small scale. Mere scale is not the deciding factor. Rather, a feat is impressively precise when error in any direction ultimately dooms the effort. Thus, from the textual description, Bane's feat is very impressive because the margin of error is so slim. Veregre's, depending on the description of the feat, may have been similarly impressive. (Depending on what exactly the book says that she manipulated.) The Skywalkers' feat is not impressive or an indication of skill because they could have poured too much energy into the endeavor, or too little, and still met with some success.

Dooku's applied TK is impressive, to me, because if he had pushed to hard he would have utterly ruined Ventress. Her body would be utterly annihilated. The effective range of force he could apply was so small, and the consequences of a mistake were so great, that success seems quite impressive indeed.

Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina Solo, when they were children and not even well trained, all demonstrate the ability to manipulate air molecules, to the point that they were able to rub them together to create light.

While I agree that this is impressive we have to remember that these are the grandkiddies of the Living Force itself and heirs to the Skywalker line. And Skywalkers do shit like this by accident all the goddamn time.

and its implied that the simple act of creating a holocron requires a high level of precision as well. I'm not sure we can really call Dooku's display especially impressive.

I doubt it, it seems like theres actually a way to manufacture them as Bastila's father had one. Unless he bought one from the Jedi or the Sith (unlikely) or found one himself (on Tatooine? Maybe. O.o), this indicates to me that theres a way for the public to get their hands on and produce them. Though he might have traded the jedi Bastila for one. She is pretty damn whiney. mmm

Originally posted by Zampanó Dooku's applied TK is impressive, to me, because if he had pushed to hard he would have utterly ruined Ventress. Her body would be utterly annihilated. The effective range of force he could apply was so small, and the consequences of a mistake were so great, that success seems quite impressive indeed.

While indeed Dooku’s showing is a mark of his great mastery of the force, I'm not sure how this will aid him in a force fight with force-beasts like Vader or Marek.
Though Dooku's precision and skill may be greater, the sheer power of Vader or Marek will be, I think, sufficient to give them the win.
It may be a similar case to Dooku vs Anakin in RotS, when Anakin’s power rendered Dooku’s mastery useless.

Dooku's mastery of the force is good,but when it comes to a fight? I'll take the guy who pounds people until they stop moving over the guy that can do itty bitty precise things.