Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Originally posted by Peach
Also, horses are suicidal. Ridiculously so. They will charge and attack anything that attacks you. Including dragons.

Which incidentally resolved into one of my most memorable Skyrim moments so far.

I stole a horse, and went to a sidequest to kill a Bandit Chief at a tower east of Whiterun, as I battled the the Chief, he fell down to one knee and asked for mercy. Just for the hell of it, I decided to see what would happen if I put down my weapons, so I did that. However, it seems my stolen horse did not like the idea of mercy, and swiftly came running in, knocking me aside, and kicked the Bandit Chief in the head, instantly killing him.

So mission accomplished, and I learned to never thwart this horse in the future.

My greatest memory on horseback, is when a goddamn wolf followed me halfway across the goddamn continent. Pissed me off so much, that I ended up just galloping off a cliff and his dumbass followed me.

I was all: "Goodluck with that wolfie, I'm on my way to die."

All three of us splattered to our deaths, was a moment worthy of Valhalla.

How insane are the mods now? I stopped playing a while ago to play other things, and because while the game was really good it was a little underwhelming to my current tastes. Fastforward to knw, if i started playing again any mods that I should really get?

Originally posted by jalek moye
How insane are the mods now? I stopped playing a while ago to play other things, and because while the game was really good it was a little underwhelming to my current tastes. Fastforward to knw, if i started playing again any mods that I should really get?

I don't know, but I do know that it can take year(s) for the really good stuff to show up.

Originally posted by jalek moye
How insane are the mods now?

Well there are now giant skeletons (seen at 3:20).

YouTube video

YouTube video

Horses are awesome when they aren't being one-shotted by enemies. Gravity clearly is a Horse's b****.

I made a vid. Here's how to power-level sneak, archery, and restoration at the same time:

YouTube video

HOWEVER! Set the difficulty setting to Master (to give the greybeards more health), use your strongest bow, and use your archery buffs.

Leveling sneak will take the longest but you should be able to max out archery in an hour. Remember, you level archery faster if you do more damage each hit. You cannot kill the Greybeard gents as they are "essential NPCs". As long as you stay in "sneak" mode, you'll be able repeat the process in the above video until you're done leveling as far as you want.

"Why not console command cheat?" That takes the fun out of the game, of course.

Edit - Yes, unlike other Skyrim help videos, I don't make a 10 minute video showing you the same thing over and over again. I can make a better one which shows you how to get to High Hrothgar with map locations and everything but this video is not for brand new players. I can make a ton of these types of vids so let me know if you want more.

Double edit - Yes, that's full 1080p, ultra graphics with everything maxed, 50-60 frames a second...WHILE recording with stereo: got a new computer. 😄

How does power leveling fun?

It's just as bad as cheating.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I made a vid. Here's how to power-level sneak, archery, and restoration at the same time:

YouTube video

HOWEVER! Set the difficulty setting to Master (to give the greybeards more health), use your strongest bow, and use your archery buffs.

Leveling sneak will take the longest but you should be able to max out archery in an hour. Remember, you level archery faster if you do more damage each hit. You cannot kill the Greybeard gents as they are "essential NPCs". As long as you stay in "sneak" mode, you'll be able repeat the process in the above video until you're done leveling as far as you want.

"Why not console command cheat?" That takes the fun out of the game, of course.

Edit - Yes, unlike other Skyrim help videos, I don't make a 10 minute video showing you the same thing over and over again. I can make a better one which shows you how to get to High Hrothgar with map locations and everything but this video is not for brand new players. I can make a ton of these types of vids so let me know if you want more.

Double edit - Yes, that's full 1080p, ultra graphics with everything maxed, 50-60 frames a second...WHILE recording with stereo: got a new computer. 😄

Or you could use the Oghma Infinium to level eeeeverything at once 😉 Good video, nonetheless, though. Never would have thought of that method.

Originally posted by Smasandian
How does power leveling fun?

It's just as bad as cheating.

Because you get awesome perks. And better perks = more fun.

I have a side account where I used the XP glitch to get to level 81 and to compensate I set the difficulty to the highest level. It evens it out nicely while I can still go through dungeons dominating. Lots of fun.

Originally posted by Smasandian
How does power leveling fun?

It's just as bad as cheating.

Working within the confines of the way the programmers intended the game to be played to gain an advantage inside the fictional universe has always been my most favorite thing about RPGs.

You are fully intended to be able to attack people, unnoticed, with high enough sneak abilities. The game has been out for ages with tons of patches. This "method" I used above has been around for ages. So it is hardly something not intended to be used. If you get caught, the Greybeards can make short work of even a highly armored and prepared character. I have had to restart my "session" multiple times against them. It takes an hour, at the most. It becomes a game of trying to not get caught and seeing how far you can level.

Basically, your argument boils down to, "Why should I hid in the coverage of grass to snipe out a powerful character? Isn't that cheating?"

Originally posted by General G
Or you could use the Oghma Infinium to level eeeeverything at once 😉 Good video, nonetheless, though. Never would have thought of that method.

That was patched slightly before I got my copy of the game. I also consider it cheating because it is an exploit. Why do that when you can use console commands to do it faster?

And, yes, I like to spend the time and effort to level my character...even it means tediously spending an hour sneaking around the greybeards, just to get the pay-off of being powerful compared to my enemies.

I just wish that the enemies wouldn't level with you. Some do, some don't. The ones that do take the fun out of "leveling": they are still hard to kill unless you use your sneak perks (x15 damage?).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Working within the confines of the way the programmers intended the game to be played to gain an advantage inside the fictional universe has always been my most favorite thing about RPGs.

You are fully intended to be able to attack people, unnoticed, with high enough sneak abilities. The game has been out for ages with tons of patches. This "method" I used above has been around for ages. So it is hardly something not intended to be used. If you get caught, the Greybeards can make short work of even a highly armored and prepared character. I have had to restart my "session" multiple times against them. It takes an hour, at the most. It becomes a game of trying to not get caught and seeing how far you can level.

Basically, your argument boils down to, "Why should I hid in the coverage of grass to snipe out a powerful character? Isn't that cheating?"

That was patched slightly before I got my copy of the game. I also consider it cheating because it is an exploit. Why do that when you can use console commands to do it faster?

And, yes, I like to spend the time and effort to level my character...even it means tediously spending an hour sneaking around the greybeards, just to get the pay-off of being powerful compared to my enemies.

I just wish that the enemies wouldn't level with you. Some do, some don't. The ones that do take the fun out of "leveling": they are still hard to kill unless you use your sneak perks (x15 damage?).

You can still use the Ohgma Infinium cheat, it's on Youtube. 4.1 just makes it a little trickier to do the trick, but once you see how it's done, it will work every time.

Originally posted by Stoic
You can still use the Ohgma Infinium cheat, it's on Youtube. 4.1 just makes it a little trickier to do the trick, but once you see how it's done, it will work every time.

If they patched it out of the game (one way), being able to do it another way is still cheating, imo.

If I'm going to cheat, I do it on my second or third play through. I'm still on my first. Instead of doing that book cheat, I'll use the console commands: it's much faster.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You are fully intended to be able to attack people, unnoticed, with high enough sneak abilities. The game has been out for ages with tons of patches. This "method" I used above has been around for ages. So it is hardly something not intended to be used. If you get caught, the Greybeards can make short work of even a highly armored and prepared character. I have had to restart my "session" multiple times against them. It takes an hour, at the most. It becomes a game of trying to not get caught and seeing how far you can level.

So the Oghma Infinium method is OK because the game has been out for ages with tons of patches and it still hasn't been fixed? That kind of goes against this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
That was patched slightly before I got my copy of the game. I also consider it cheating because it is an exploit. Why do that when you can use console commands to do it faster?

What you did to the Greybeards was a pure exploit as well. You were exploiting their high health and using the very overpowered nature of a high sneak.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just wish that the enemies wouldn't level with you. Some do, some don't. The ones that do take the fun out of "leveling": they are still hard to kill unless you use your sneak perks (x15 damage?).

I wouldn't mind if some enemies levelled with you while others didn't, like you just said. But I guess an easy fix to that is to just lower the difficulty while being level 81?

I also love leveling naturally. I have my main character who is playing through the game straight up how it was "meant" to be played (I use quotations there because everybody plays it differently) and they are a sword and shield character. I have a secondary character who I am not as far into, but they are a mage and they won't be glitched, either. Then I have my Oghma Infinium glitched character, which is lots of fun, too.

Also, can't use console commands as I am on a 360.

Edit - WTF? Why did it double post?

Originally posted by General G
So the Oghma Infinium method is OK because the game has been out for ages with tons of patches and it still hasn't been fixed?

Untrue: they found another glitch after that particular exploit was patched. That's not the same thing. And I believe that the new glitch was patched, again.

Attacking an essential NPC from the shadows using your sneak skill is not cheating or an exploit. Consider that if you do not have a high enough sneak skill and you attack two times in a row (before the eye closes), the Greybeards will make very short work of you and your companion no matter what level or equipment you have: they freeze and shock you.

Originally posted by General G
That kind of goes against this:

It doesn't go against that, at all. The only difference between attacking the Greybeards and ANY character from sneak mode is that the Greybeards:

1. Can kill you quickly no matter what level or equipment you have (baring cheating with unpatched games).

2. Cannot be killed because they are essential to the main quest.

Does it reduce the number of sword swings you have to make against enemies? Nope.

Does it reduce the number of times or the during you have to cast the magical spells? Nope.

Does it reduce the time you have to stay in legit sneak mode (sneaking and then sneaking when enemies are around are two different things: the former does not level you up and the latter does)? Nope.

Does it reduce the number of successful arrow shots? Nope.

So what is the only advantage to attacking the Greybeards rather than going through tons of dungeons to do the same thing? Easy: you can do it all at once.

Does the game become magically easier? Uh, no. It becomes much harder. Unless you have awesome equipment, you're going to have a very hard time after power-leveling against the Greybeards.

What you did to the Greybeards was a pure exploit as well. You were exploiting their high health and using the very overpowered nature of a high sneak.

Originally posted by General G
I wouldn't mind if some enemies levelled with you while others didn't, like you just said. But I guess an easy fix to that is to just lower the difficulty while being level 81?

Doesn't work. If you use alchemy and enchanting, the max you can get your bonuses is 28 to 32%: that exploit has been patched. If you play the game on master with max enchant on all equipment, it will still take ages to kill an Ancient Dragon...assuming you have enough health potions to heal yourself against its attacks.

Originally posted by General G
I also love leveling naturally. I have my main character who is playing through the game straight up how it was "meant" to be played (I use quotations there because everybody plays it differently) and they are a sword and shield character. I have a secondary character who I am not as far into, but they are a mage and they won't be glitched, either. Then I have my Oghma Infinium glitched character, which is lots of fun, too.

In games like Skyrim? No, I don't love leveling naturally which means a shit ton of dungeon walk throughs and walking all over the land without fast traveling. If the game offered the ability to fight an endless number of Giants and Mammoths, I would do that instead of the Greybeard thing because I love sniping giants and fighting Mammoths. Since that is not offered, I am stuck with attacking unkillable characters from the shadows.

The next play through, I'll level up with console commands. The third play through, I'll use console commands to do whatever the **** I want.

Originally posted by General G
Also, can't use console commands as I am on a 360.

Aahhh hahahahah. Sucker! 313

Originally posted by dadudemon
Untrue: they found another glitch after that particular exploit was patched. That's not the same thing. And I believe that the new glitch was patched, again.

Attacking an essential NPC from the shadows using your sneak skill is not cheating or an exploit. Consider that if you do not have a high enough sneak skill and you attack two times in a row (before the eye closes), the Greybeards will make very short work of you and your companion no matter what level or equipment you have: they freeze and shock you.

It's not patched, as I and one other have already said. I literally just made my Oghma Infiniumm glitched character less than a week ago. So, what you said is still true. It must be OK based on the reasoning I have quoted above.

I'm not saying what you did was cheating. I'm also not saying what I did was cheating. We both used exploits in the game. Fact: you exploited the fact that the Greybeards cannot die and used it to your advantage. I exploited a book that levels you up faster.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It doesn't go against that, at all. The only difference between attacking the Greybeards and ANY character from sneak mode is that the Greybeards:

1. Can kill you quickly no matter what level or equipment you have (baring cheating with unpatched games).

2. Cannot be killed because they are essential to the main quest.

So what is the only advantage to attacking the Greybeards rather than going through tons of dungeons to do the same thing? Easy: you can do it all at once.

Does the game become magically easier? Uh, no. It becomes much harder. Unless you have awesome equipment, you're going to have a very hard time after power-leveling against the Greybeards.

That IS the difference, though! There is a huge difference from attacking the Greybeards compared to any other NPC in the game. They can't be killed and are your allies. It doesn't matter how fast they can kill you. Give a draugr enough time and he'll make good work of you, too. The point of the game is not to kill your allies.

Oh my...so what is the difference between going through the dungeons and using the Oghma Infinium exploit? Easy: You can do it all at once. Exact same reasoning. And yes, the game really does become magically easier, depending on the difficulty you put it on. Once you're a high enough level with proper perks, there's little you can't do. And if you're willing to use such exploits against the Greybeards, the odds are good that you'll have no issue using similar exploits for awesoem equipment (see the smithing exploit).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Doesn't work. If you use alchemy and enchanting, the max you can get your bonuses is 28 to 32%: that exploit has been patched. If you play the game on master with max enchant on all equipment, it will still take ages to kill an Ancient Dragon...assuming you have enough health potions to heal yourself against its attacks.

In games like Skyrim? No, I don't love leveling naturally which means a shit ton of dungeon walk throughs and walking all over the land without fast traveling. If the game offered the ability to fight an endless number of Giants and Mammoths, I would do that instead of the Greybeard thing because I love sniping giants and fighting Mammoths. Since that is not offered, I am stuck with attacking unkillable characters from the shadows.

No, that really does work. Unless you are honestly saying that playing on the easiest difficulty is about the same as playing on the hardest, and if you are, then I've wasted a lot of breath. You're missing my whole point and getting all whiny about it. I said that an easy fix to having enemies level with you is just to play on a lower difficulty. Yes, they still level with you, but playing on a lower difficulty will make you feel like the overpowered a$$ you want to feel like.

So...you don't like games like Skyrim? That's what Skyrim is. The game doesn't have a "Firefight" mode. Skyrim is a shit ton of dungeons and travelling. So you "don't love leveling naturally", so you like the exploits.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Aahhh hahahahah. Sucker! 313

Congrats, I'm loving the game 🙄

Originally posted by General G
It's not patched, as I and one other have already said. I literally just made my Oghma Infiniumm glitched character less than a week ago. So, what you said is still true. It must be OK based on the reasoning I have quoted above.

It is: I've looked. There are two major methods (there are several variations of each) and both HAVE been patched on at least the PC version.

Additionally, the method you used was the second variation to the already patched system. If it was REALLY intended to be read more than once, why does it get used up with only one reading any other way it is performed? It seems you're missing my point, deliberately, to myopically focus your attention to justifying why you can cheat with glitches.

Originally posted by General G
I'm not saying what you did was cheating.

Because it is not no matter how you try to approach it. It is extremely easy to change how the Greybeards act or react to you attacking them. So why haven't the programmers "patched" it? 🙂 You can "patch" it yourself with console commands.

I can tell you why: you still have to make the same number of sword strikes, it is still tedious and takes hours upon hours (depending upon which things you want to level), same number of arrow shots, same number of spell casts, etc. Patching it would not be in the vein of Elder Scrolls games: people have always jumped in place for hours to level agility, cast certain spells to level magic, and so forth. That is part of the game and the attitude with the game.

Exploiting code which opposes how a skill book was intended to be used? No, sorry, that is not how the game was intended to be played no matter what type of backwards logic you can try to use.

Originally posted by General G
I'm also not saying what I did was cheating.

But it was. The programmers patched that hole in the game a loooooong time ago and the players figured out ways to rework the glitch in other ways. There's no way you can logically justify that glitch exploit as legit just because some versions of that sploit were unpatched. They tried to patch it a long time ago: that should be more than enough to silence any type of misconceived legitimacy you thing you argument has in support of that sploit.

Originally posted by General G
We both used exploits in the game.

Incorrect. One is a deliberate design in the game (my version).

The other is an accidental glitch in the programming that has been patched no less than 2 different ways (your version).

Originally posted by General G
Fact: you exploited the fact that the Greybeards cannot die and used it to your advantage.

That is a different definition of exploit, however. That's not the video game definition of exploit. The better word for what I'm doing is not "exploit" but grinding.

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw including glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Why do you think I keep mentioning programmer intention? Because that's paramount in defining what an exploit is and is not.

Originally posted by General G
I exploited a book that levels you up faster.

No no...you didn't.

You exploited a bug that allows you to cheat by reusing a book that was designed to ONLY be used once.

Originally posted by General G
That IS the difference, though! There is a huge difference from attacking the Greybeards compared to any other NPC in the game.

That's true but only partially. There are multiple essential NPCs in the game, not just the Greybeards. However, only the Greybeards can kill you in a way that is infuriatingly ridiculous: spam electrocution and freeze.

Originally posted by General G
They can't be killed and are your allies.

They are not your allies if you get caught attacking them just like any other NPC/faction in the game that starts as "friendly."

Originally posted by General G
It doesn't matter how fast they can kill you.

Actually, it directly matters. It is not how fast they can kill you...it is the fact that they are undefeat-able if they attack you even IF they were kill-able.

Originally posted by General G
The point of the game is not to kill your allies.

That's your opinion, not an actual fact. Fact: the game was designed so that you can kill your allies. The exception is the main quest characters (and some of them become non-essential after completing some tasks).

Originally posted by General G
Oh my...so what is the difference between going through the dungeons and using the Oghma Infinium exploit?

Whatever comes after these words, above, will be wrong.

So I will tell you the correct answer before reading your next words.

The difference between going through the dungeons and using the Oghma Infinum exploit is huge.

One is the intended design, the other is not. One is cheating the other is not.

Originally posted by General G
Easy: You can do it all at once.

You're using a non sequitur parallel to my argument.

That's not the intended use of my words.

If there was a giant ass dungeon that had hundreds to thousands of enemies to kill, then that would be the proper parallel to the example I have used for the Greybeards. No such dungeon exists. I would definitely love it if a leveling dungeon existed. Many RPGs provide things like that: Skyrim just happens to not have it.

Originally posted by General G
Exact same reasoning.

Wrong. Similar words but not the same reasoning. It was a dishonest twisting of my reasoning on your part.

Originally posted by General G
And yes, the game really does become magically easier, depending on the difficulty you put it on.

Incorrect. If you power level without the proper equipment, the instant you step outside and face a dragon, you'll die very quickly. The problem with powerleveling is the disadvantage you put yourself in because the enemies level with you. Sure, your damage may increase but it does not increase enough.

Trust me, I tried it: I tried to power level from 20-60. Stepped outside...dragon...could not defeat the dragon even after dropping the difficulty down. Lesson learned: power leveling in Skyrim is not advisable unless you already have your Smithing, enchanting, and alchemy maxed with the best type of equipment possible.

Originally posted by General G
Once you're a high enough level with proper perks, there's little you can't do.

Except for fight against just about any leveled character.

Originally posted by General G
And if you're willing to use such exploits against the Greybeards, the odds are good that you'll have no issue using similar exploits for awesoem equipment (see the smithing exploit).

How is making hundreds of items of equipment an exploit?
How is firing thousands of arrows an exploit?
How is using thousand of spells and exploit?
How is making thousands of sword slashes and exploit?
How is letting a Mammoth beat the shit out of your character and/or it's shield for hundreds of strikes, an exploit?
How is mixing hundreds (to thousands) of potions an exploit?
How is healing hundreds of thousands of health points an exploit?
How is sneaking around while attacking for dozens of hours an exploit?
How is picking hundreds to thousands of locks an exploit?
How is pick-pocketing hundreds of items and money from NPCs and exploit?

Answer: they are not.

This is why my character has a play time of 184 hours and I'm level 72.

Originally posted by General G
No, that really does work. Unless you are honestly saying that playing on the easiest difficulty is about the same as playing on the hardest, and if you are, then I've wasted a lot of breath.

How could you conclude that when there are about 5 references to difficulty in my posts, in this thread (in the last 5 pages).

Originally posted by General G
You're missing my whole point and getting all whiny about it. I said that an easy fix to having enemies level with you is just to play on a lower difficulty. Yes, they still level with you, but playing on a lower difficulty will make you feel like the overpowered a$$ you want to feel like.

No, even if you are easy difficulty, if you power level from 20-60 without first maxing out your equipment, you stand no chance against almost all leveled enemies. It is quite stupid to power level very far without the proper equipment.

Originally posted by General G
So...you don't like games like Skyrim? That's what Skyrim is. The game doesn't have a "Firefight" mode. Skyrim is a shit ton of dungeons and travelling. So you "don't love leveling naturally", so you like the [b]exploits.[/B]

The items I mentioned in my post are all overcome/accounted for in the game. So you cannot conclude that I don't like the game.

Let me break it down for you so you can understand why I mentioned the things I did:

I said:"No, I don't love leveling naturally which means a shit ton of dungeon walk throughs and walking all over the land without fast traveling."

Not loving leveling naturally does not mean I hate the game. Sure, it is okay at the beginning of the game when you level decently as you play but the levels do not make that much of a difference. In order to notice a difference, you need to level about 25-50 times on a skill to really "feel" a difference in that skill you are using.

Without fast traveling? Wait...you CAN fast travel. Yeah, the game was smart enough to cater to players like me who do not like to walk for 30-45 minutes wherever I go. Again, how could you conclude I hated the game when both of those examples are things accounted for by the designers? Answer: you couldn't.

I give the game a 7 out of 10. It is entertaining at times. It is very boring at others.

Back to the main point. What are you REALLY upset about? What you're upset about is that you are cheating on the game by actually exploiting a glitch. I'm not. You want what I'm doing to fall into the same category as you to make yourself feel better (not sure why you need that comfort) but it is not and will not happen.

What it boils down to: I'm playing the game the way it was intended and you're not. You don't like that because my method is smart and yours exploits code.

That's fine...but get over it.

Originally posted by General G
Congrats, I'm loving the game 🙄

U jelly of my console commands? 313

Why are you guys arguing about cheating in a single-player game?

He brought it up against me...not I. I was addressing his concerns/gripes/complaints/criticisms.